Why am I subsidizing the M50 for others?

jimmycrackcorm

I think it's unfair that only people who pass between the Lucan and Blanchardstown junctions are those who have to pay the toll. From NTR times, there was a spurious argument about the toll being used to pay for the bridge but now that it has been bought out and paid for multiple times, I'm annoyed that I, as a regular toll user have to pay continually for my use of the M50 while many, many others have free use.

My OH travels every day between Lucan and Tallaght and doesn't have to pay, whereas I travelling between Lucan and Blanch do. Why is that - why cannot everyone pay a fair share and perhaps have the economies of scale dictate that we all pay a little less?

I, actually agree with a toll payment because I fell the improvements in the road infrastructure such as extra lanes and free-flow junctions give a corresponding benefit. I just resent the freeloaders who can avoid the north-south travel tax.

jimi_t2

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I, actually agree with a toll payment because I fell the improvements in the road infrastructure such as extra lanes and free-flow junctions give a corresponding benefit..

These correspond to each other? I was always under the impression that a private company had bought the tender

jimmycrackcorm

The government bought out the NTR contract. However we now still pay a toll for a historical bridge build. Plus, NTR offered to finance the upgrade of the M50 third lane in return for an extension of their toll franchise for another 25 years.

Hence we are now paying a continued toll for 25 years, but to the government instead and we get the third lane for the whole M50 in return.

It's not the same deal as that where Eazypass or whoever they are called now get the contract for collecting the toll fees.

L1011

The money is being used to pay NTR's contract out, not to upgrade the rest of the M50. You aren't "subsidising" other sections of it at all. Additional income over and above what the payments to NTR are doesn't come close to paying the PPP payments to Sacyr for the rest of the road.

You pay because you use the bridges the state had to buy at a massive cost, your OH doesn't pay because they don't.

JHMEG

You pay because the govt has to get back the €1.6bn that it will give to NTR. It gets it back at the location of the old toll plaza because that's something people were used to so it's uncontentious.

It was never fair that just the bridge on the M50 was tolled. The people it's most unfair on are the people whose streets and estates are being used as rat-runs by those who wish to avoid the toll. Something people living close to other parts of the M50 don't have to contend with.

AlekSmart

I, actually agree with a toll payment because I fell the improvements in the road infrastructure such as extra lanes and free-flow junctions give a corresponding benefit. I just resent the freeloaders who can avoid the north-south travel tax.
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Crikey Jimmycrackcorn,you`re not related to Noel Dempsey are ye ? :eek:

The WestLink NTR.Government deal stinks to high-heaven and has done so since it`s inception.

The original deal blended some of Irelands finest entreprenurial types with our equally fine Political types as described in this article....

http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_10009151.shtml

From this article it`s worth noting....

The West-Link Toll Bridge was constructed at a cost of IR30 million - €38 million - and was opened to traffic in March 1990. The bridge is the second highest in Ireland and forms a major link in the Dublin M50 motorway system to Dublin Airport. The bridge, which traverses the River Liffey at the Strawberry Beds, is 385 metres in length with its highest elevation above the river at 41.5 metres. West-Link now handles more than 100,000 vehicles per day compared with the original projection of traffic in 2020 of 45,000 vehicles daily.

Fred Barry, the Chief Executive of the State agency National Roads Authority (NRA), told the Oireachtas Public Accounts Committee in early 2006, that lawyers had advised the NRA that the 1987 contract was so vague that there were no remedies to take NTR to task on issues such as the standard of service.

Former EU Commissioner Padraig Flynn and disgraced ex-planning official George Redmond, signed the controversial deal for the operation of the West-Link Toll Bridge with National Toll Roads Ltd, in August 1987.

While the payment of Toll to a legitimately formed and well run entity in return for the provision of a new or improved service provided entirely by that entity may be of benefit to everybody,the WestLink remains nothing more than a testimony to the worst of the Irish dodgy-dealing mentality.

There were so many of the Great & Good involved in this scam,FFS even Liam Lawlor was invoicing for his "Consultancy" work...I`m a great admirer of Liam`s political legacy but I draw the line at offering an ongoing cash-contribution to it.

Jeepers JimmyCC,never forget that these well connected types were fully embedded into the EU`s regional infrastructure support grants as well,so one could say that their funding was coming literally from the sky.

The entire thing was great news for NTR and the Roche family trust which I should imagine is in a very healthy state going forward (as Charley McCreevy might say ) :mad:

westtip

Westlink is one item on my list of many in my reasons why I can't ever bring myself to vote FF in a general election again.

We reap what we sow.

antoinolachtnai

I think the OP makes a very fair point about how the cost of road infrastructure for the whole city is being footed by people in one part of the city.. (Before you ask: I hardly ever user that part of the M50 myself.)

AlekSmart

I think the OP makes a very fair point about how the cost of road infrastructure for the whole city is being footed by people in one part of the city

I`m not so certain that the originators of the West Link "Facility" were at all concerned about it funding anything for anybody other than their own well developed business plans.

The arguements over the entire Irish Toll methodology have been done to death here and elsewhere,but the originators merely brazened it out as is their (provenly successful) way.

Suffice to say that Minister Noel Dempsey`s great concerns that the M3 Toll funding arrangements remain secret (Commercially sensitive don`t ya know) is enough to encourage my suspicions of dark deeds being discreetly done.

Just as with Public Transport,we don`t actually have a Policy as such,merely a collection of aspirations cobbled together into a form of "Plan" which can be dressed up and peddled to an increasingly dozy electorate every 4 years.

If we had a "Plan" then all licenced Public Bus and Coach services would be exempted from Tolls as of right...something which although of great social and ecological benefit would be a tad damaging to the reputation of a Minister intent on maximizing private car useage on his shiny new Tolled Motorways. :rolleyes:

trellheim

Steady on. As I recall plans were well advanced to toll the southern end and were pulled very late in the process in some sort of political deal.

anotherlostie

The toll is on the section where the river was crossed. You can always take that back road through Lucan into Blanch, or else via the Park.

Isn't this the same as the M25 in London with the Dartford Tunnel being the only tolled part of the road?. And yes I know that strictly speaking the tunnel isn't part of the M25 if you want to be pedantic, as some tend to be in these matters!

Chris_5339762

Was just about to say

AlekSmart

As I recall plans were well advanced to toll the southern end and were pulled very late in the process in some sort of political deal.

Trellheim is spot-on.

Not alone were there plans but all of the original M50 on-ramps had toll-booth plinths installed in anticipation of some "friendly" brother-in-law type gettin a bit of an oul contract to collect the tolls.

The only reason the tolls were never introduced wasa bit of unseemly unpleasantness between the then Dept of Local Government and the Local Authorities on the M50 route.

The LA`s wanted the moohlah for their own needs whilst the Dept also had designs on the soft-money.

ARAIR the Local Authorities won the day and the Dept was found not to have the power to order them to desist...either way the situation directly led to the formation of the National Roads Authority which had all the toll-collecting powers vested in it,which of course brings us back to the stuff of science fiction.......

Fred Barry, the Chief Executive of the State agency National Roads Authority (NRA), told the Oireachtas Public Accounts Committee in early 2006, that lawyers had advised the NRA that the 1987 contract was so vague that there were no remedies to take NTR to task on issues such as the standard of service

I wonder how many consultants were engaged on the drafting of the contract in question and what fees were paid for their services.....Vague.....vague......over €700 Million worth of vagueness....and this from an agency which at one point embarked on a policy of shutting off every second street-lamp on the M50 in order to save on ESB costs ...:o

Jeepers , Jimmycrackcorn`s support for paying tolls to these entreprenurial giants is becoming ever more worrying the more I start reminiscing

RATM

OP buy a motorbike- the M50 is then toll free in both directions

westtip

OP you make a very valid point, toll dodging is now national pasttime, On the M4 ulnless I am in a major hurry or depending on time of day I generally toll dodge and use the old N4 from Kilcock to Kinnegad, with the split in traffic between N4/M4 the old road is only aobut ten minutes difference in total journey time out west; I would have advocated the Swiss style tolling - the extra motorway tax disc for all users - including non national cars, and with all revenue ring fenced for motorway development - we all benefit from the new roads even if we don't drive - with better supply chain logistics and speedier bus journies they also reduce the cost of the health bill with less serious accidents - borne out by the stats on the routes they have come into being. Separate toll points are unfair, but there you go its what we have and it ain't going to change too much vested interests now.

Carawaystick

RATM wrote: »

OP buy a motorbike- the M50 is then toll free in both directions

Motorbikes still have to pay a toll to go on the underground section of the M50....