homeless / beggar

Tim Robbins

Hi,
I saw a very disturbing scene this morning outside Pearse St. A beggar was there, this is in itself isn't that unusual as there are usually beggars there. However, this poor fella looked in a really way. No shoes and was shaking rapidly. Didn't know what to do.

Any thoughts for good citizen behaviour here?

All I did was give him any change I had.

Cheers.

Thoushaltnot

I know I'm gonna get flamed for this but anyhow....remarkably effective begging technique, 'innit? Very professional.

I never give money to beggars but I saw this same scene about a month back - outside Arnotts and it stopped me in my tracks. Then I realized his feet were cleanish and he didn't smell, like the truly down and out do. I've been surprised at the number of "beggars" by ATMs wearing spotless trainers but I think that that giveaway's been cottoned onto.

You're better off giving the money to the homeless charities - Simon, Sally Army, Threshold. Even the homeless charities themselves will tell you this. Better that, than have it going straight to their dealer, the offie or their "begging pimp" (dunno the street term but it's the person who goes round collecting the change off them, if there's a gang of them).



If you think I'm being hard nosed, then maybe ring the local Pearse st. gardai and they can check up on him and organize for an ambulance, if he's really been attacked. But I'd say that if you check back in with the people in the shop there this evening, they might have observed the shaking stop when his mates dropped by. And him rake it in in the meantime.

Sorry, but on every occasion before that I've seen beggars in really pitiful states (3 significant) in Dublin, I've caught them suddenly acting normally, at a later time.

I've also seen a small group of homeless go into a charity shop and ask for fresh clothes and get them too.

Andrew33

There but for the grace of God go I.

InReality

I've seen those "begging pimps" around a few times.
Once to a young girl , once to a woman with a baby.

Both times showed up on a bike.

liah

You don't have to be smelly or dirty to be legitimately homeless.

I was homeless briefly (about a month), all you have to do is go into a public toilet and clean yourself up. It's not really that hard. They generally have at least a bit of liquid hand soap in public toilets, which you can wash your hair with, too, as well as the rest of yourself. Hand dryer can easily be converted to hair dryer.

As I've been there I'm pretty sick of seeing all homeless people being written off as scammers, scummers, or whatever else-- some people legitimately need the money and need a second chance and are there through no fault of their own but due to something out of their reach.

Tim Robbins

This bloke was ethic minority, look in a bits. Poor fella. I doubt he was scamming. I'm a reasonable judge and rarely give money to beggars and instead money to reputable charities.. Gave this fella all the change I had.

Denerick

Even if 1 out of 10 are genuine, the unfortunate reality is that what you're doing is worse than useless. Most of them will just spend it on booze. For the majority of the long term homeless, they need medical and mental health treatment, and giving to charities is much more effective. You're not helping an addict by helping him by his poison. It might be a hard nosed view, but its the reality. I've no sympathy for beggars, I've lived and worked in close proximity to numerous homeless shelters for the past 4 years. I'm well used to their techniques at this stage.

Zombrex

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Hi,
I saw a very disturbing scene this morning outside Pearse St. A beggar was there, this is in itself isn't that unusual as there are usually beggars there. However, this poor fella looked in a really way. No shoes and was shaking rapidly. Didn't know what to do.

Any thoughts for good citizen behaviour here?

All I did was give him any change I had.

Cheers.

My recommendation is at the very most give money but even that might be a bad idea as, as others have said, it simply facilitates them.

The last time I helped a homeless drunk who looked in a bad away (he had collapsed at the top of my road in a bush) I ended up minding him for an hour while I waited for the cops to arrive while he proceeded to tell me he wasn't a drunk but could I spare some money for a cup of tea and screaming for me not to leave him. Eventually he wanted to walk down the road to his "house" but when I picked him up and tried to help him he kept falling over again and eventually when he fell down, crapped himself, and started scratching the scabs of the needle marks all up and down his legs I just left him there.

That sort of put me off being a good Samaritan.

It also made me rather cynical, I think now that if someone actually is prepared to accept your help genuinely they will be prepared to go look for help, and there are plenty of places homeless people can go if they genuinely want help.

Now if I see someone who looks in trouble I say can I call you an ambulance If they don't say "Yes please", if they say "Can you help me up I just need to sit down and have a sip of this" I simply walk on. Some people seem determined to kill themselves and I don't really want to catch AIDS off them as they do.

NothingMan

I don't understand how anyone can be homeless/hungry in Ireland today. Citizens, refugees, immigrants & asylum seekers are all entitled to some form of housing and welfare. I can only think that if you are a beggar you are either so strung out on drink or drugs that you aren't able to get your head together and apply for what you're entitled to, in which case you can feck off. Or you're a career beggar. If a beggar is giving 1 euro from 13 people an hour they are earning more than me and not paying taxes on it. Until someone can explain how a genuine case of hopelessness and bad fortune can lead to someone being without food & shelter in Ireland today they can all feck right off.

nacho libre

Is part of the problem that some homeless people actually fear for their safety in some shelters?

also is it possible that when looking at it through the mindset of someone who is of sound mental health, that what you deem straight forward and perfectly solvable is not to someone who may have any number of psychological issues. which could well be why they ended up on the street to begin with and refuse to do what would be logical to other people viewing their situation.

Valmont

That fellow you are talking of has been shaking for months now; I first saw him in October. While I'm sure he has a hard time, I don't think it's as bad as he lets on.

Tim Robbins

Valmont wrote: »

That fellow you are talking of has been shaking for months now; I first saw him in October. While I'm sure he has a hard time, I don't think it's as bad as he lets on.

You sure we are talking about the same person?

Valmont

I have seen a fellow matching the description on Westland row a good few times. I guess there is no way of knowing for sure but I just seem to have noticed a few more beggars shivering and shaking recently than I ever did before and I'm in Dublin an awful lot. I don't like to be so cynical but I can't help but feel that it's a new ploy.

Rev Hellfire

Personally I suspect that its just yet another ploy, at this stage most people are becoming nonchalant to begging. This is just upping the ante to get a response, its no different to those women using babies as begging prop's.

Though like others have said if you feel for some reason you want to help these people, give the money to a homeless charity rather than to them.

Dr. Dodger

I have to agree that this fella is a scammer. He's been shakin for months and months now. If you want to do something for him though, buy him a cheap pair of runners and see if he's still wearing them the next day! My money is on no.

I have to admit I never give money to the homeless because I basically don't trust them. I have a serious problem believing any beggers are genuine.

Another begger that I see around sits there with his shoulder sticking out of his shirt. I'm convinced he can just do that whenever he wants and then he just kinda pops it back in at the end of the day and goes home to his gaff that the state has provided him and his entire extended family with.

I'm just so sick of people coming over here for handouts and not contributing anything to society but adding to the amount of beggers on our streets.

I'm not even getting into these women who shake their baby & cup at you.

Get out of my face, I'm already contributing for everything you're getting!

Chuchoter

This one time on henry street I saw a guy shaking and generally looking miserable with no shoes. I then saw his friend come back, with two massive shopping bags, hand him back his shoes and they went on their merry way.

I also don't give money to people with babies or children, especially the Romanian women. If you can't feed them, give them to social services, especially when they knew they couldn't get work permits.

I only give money two one or two guys who are always there and seem trustworthy. Its just that sometimes if you don't give a person money they walk after you giving out which I think is really bad, as a lot of the time I literally just have bus fare on me.

InReality

There was a very good programme with some famous uk people being homeless for a few days. eye opening stuff.
if people have a mental health problem then the are simply unable to help themselves- which is a lot of the homeless in london/usa

smelltheglove

Just noticing this thread, I guess there are a lot of scammers. My husband met an old neighbour begging on the streets once, he has turned to drugs and it broke hubbies heart seeing the state of him.

There are some genuinely long term homeless in town though. I remember my dad telling me a story once, he delivers bread around town and said he had this one guy who would come to him every morning at the back of a shop and get bread rolls from him, when myd ad was finishing delivering at that place, (may have closed down I cant remember) the guy asked him would he still drop the bread by, my dad explaine dto him that hes on a tight schedule but to meet him at the next drop off spot in future and he said the fella didnt want to, he was afraid of losing his spot, I guess he meant wherever he sleeps or something. I havent asked in a while so I dont know if he sees him anymore, just a conversation we had once as hes around town early morning daily.

So anyway, my point being, there are a lot of genuine homeless people out there, hubbies old neighbour was afraid to go back home, afraid of what his family would think of him, this fella my dad gave bread to, he just kept his same spot for years and many others, unfortunately they are being overlooked because of the huge volume of scammers there are out there now.

antocann

theres usualy 2 or 3 of them (non irish)beggin in longford
and the exact word they say every time is " i have no money , give me change "

there friend an old fella , comes over takes the money goes into centra and buys a few cans of beer

StormWarrior

I dont usually give money to beggars but I did yesterday. Im on holiday in Budapest right now, and as I was walking out of a metro station yesterday there was an old man who looked in a very bad way, holding a cup and a sign (the sign was in Hungarian so I have no idea what it said but he was obviously begging.) He looked so old and sad that I gave him some spare change, only worth a couple of euros. As I was walking away I realised that he was clean shaven, and wondered then if maybe he wasnt really homeless, but I guess he could shave in a public toilet.

The only other time I ever gave money to a beggar was in London. It was the middle of winter, absolutely freezing, and an elderly Chinese man was sitting in the street,wearing light summer clothes, no jacket or jumper, just a thin shirt. He was so dejected that he just left his cup and sign beside him, he was just staring ahead, obviously to depressed and/or freezing to try to engage passersby. I noticed him when I came out of the shop he was sitting outside of but initially I just walked away, then after a few yards I went back and gave him the 2 quid change I had from the shop. He was just so old,and I couldnt help thinking about all the money I waste on random crap, and how a couple of quid is nothing to me but to someone on the streets it could be the difference between some food or going without.

I dont usually give money to beggars, but sometimes if they are really old and sad looking I just cant help it, I think you never know, I could end up like that one day. I never give money to the beggars in my home town though,as they are all well known scam artists, who are actually not homeless at all but live on benefits and have council houses.

I once made a friend of mine beg at the side of the road. About ten years ago we were at a music festival, and on our first day there he spent all of our money, even mine, without even asking me. We had no money left for food and after a couple of days we were starving. There was a salvation army place there, but they wouldnt give us any food. As the whole thing was his fault,I made him go out to the main street and sit there asking passersby for spare change. One kid even younger than us actually gave him about 3 quid, every other passerby ignored him.
I agree with the previous poster who said that maybe people are on the streets because of psychological problems that stop them from getting help. I also doubt that there are plenty of beds available in homeless shelters, some people probably get turned away.

dermothickey

Just follow your Heart, if you have the urge to help someone in this way, please do. If you stop and start thinking about it and find some excuse not to, fair enough, either way try not to be stingy. Was chatting one day with a Homeless woman on Baggott street gave ger 2 euro or something. Told me a bit about herself and her situation, very friendly woman. Suddenly a girl walks up around 22/23 out of the office on a Friday evening just got paid, walks up to the homeless woman very quietly and hands her 20 euro. The look on the womans face was heart-warming.

xxchloexx

I agree with the people saying its bad to give them the money , but sometimes i just cant help it , im a big softie if i see someone like that when im getting into my car knowing im going home to my warm house while there sitting there begging for money i cant help but throw them a few euro , but yeah you really should give it to the chairty instead. Once saw this forgein looking guy at the traffic lights his leg was bledding honestly looked like he had been attacked by a dog and the wound was still open , my partner told me its common enough for these people to do this to them self to gain sympathy from the drivers. He had crutches and was knocking on the car windows for money , i almost cried seeing him , you seriously have to wonder how hard up these people are if they have to harm themself just so people will take pity on them and give them a few quid.

caseyann

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Hi,
I saw a very disturbing scene this morning outside Pearse St. A beggar was there, this is in itself isn't that unusual as there are usually beggars there. However, this poor fella looked in a really way. No shoes and was shaking rapidly. Didn't know what to do.

Any thoughts for good citizen behaviour here?

All I did was give him any change I had.

Cheers.

Personally i would go in to dunnes buy the poor man a pair of runners and few pairs of socks and buy him a hot meal.

Unluckyjeje

I always feel guilty when i see someone who looks genuinely desperate, i remember one nite in town me and my mate got talking to this homeless person and it was actually horrible to here how he got that way, and started crying and it wasn't put on there was no way..my own problem is giving money to homeless alcoholics because it just feeds their addiction and in the long run doesn't help. I always think your just better to give food to someone in need, but some don't want that they just want the money

rantyface

Dr. Dodger wrote: »

I'm not even getting into these women who shake their baby & cup at you.

Where do you think should the babies go when they're begging? A lot of women are homeless because they have had to run away from abusive partners.

From citizen's information
"Why do people become homeless?

There is rarely a simple explanation for someone becoming homeless. Homelessness results from a combination of factors. In the past, explanations of homelessness tended to concentrate on it as an individual problem due to personal difficulties. Now there is a much wider recognition of how societal factors such as social policy and social exclusion together with structural issues such as poverty, unemployment and housing shortages contribute to homelessness. In working to eliminate homelessness, it is important that both individual and structural factors are taken into account.

On an individual level, homelessness is frequently caused by a crisis in someone's life. These might include leaving the parental home following arguments, marital or relationship breakdown, the death of a partner, leaving care or prison, mental health problems, increased drug or alcohol misuse, a financial crisis or mounting debts and eviction.

Certain factors also create a greater risk of homelessness when a crisis occurs. Common background characteristics of people who become homeless have been identified as physical or sexual abuse in childhood or adolescence; a background of institutional care; offending behaviour and/or experience of prison; lack of social support network; debts; (especially rent and mortgage arrears); causing nuisance to neighbours (anti-social behaviour); drug or alcohol misuse; school exclusion and lack of qualifications; mental health problems and poor physical health."

I don't understand why someone wouldn't believe that most homeless people are genuinely homeless. there are official statistics available if you're interested, you don't have to base all your opinions on prejudice.

AudreyHepburn

OP is I were you I'd go buy him a hot meal, maybe help him find a shelter for even one night if he's willing. Maybe if your unsure call the Samaritans or any other organization better equipt to deal with this situation.

Personally I tend to avoid giving money directly to people for their own sakes because I wouldn't to be responsible for them buying a bad batch of drugs or drinking themselves to death.

I think it's awful though how some people insist that every person begging is just a chancer. Most of them are simply people who have fallen on hard times or run away from broken homes or bad relationships etc.

I will say though that those Roma women are just out for all they can get. And don't start me on the ones that use babies to gain sympathy :mad:

readyletsgo

One thing i learnt from my mother when i was in my teens was 'You cant help everyone, but if you can help one person...' and what she did was when she was in town shopping or seeing a friend or whatever! the first person she would see 'homeless/on the street' that person would get money from her, even if they we're lying about being homeless (how does one really know) they would get it.
Now i stuck with this theory for about 15 years, untill i started working around the Store st/Talbot st area. The first year i would give a little cash out or the odd smoke to someone, after a while i noticed it was the same people begging off me and other suckers everyday, so i stopped and when i was asked for money or smokes from then on these people would give out/shout abuse at me and say 'I was lying!!!'.
There is one guy who begs everyday around the store/talbot st area, he seems to be from spain or something, not irish anyway, tall guy, looks the hippy type from the 90's. Well, i did give him smokes and change the odd time which was fine, but then he had a female friend along with him and i saw him talkin to her across the road and sent her over to ask me for smokes/change i said no cause i knew what was happening and then he came over and asked me for smokes and change!!! CHEEK!!
Now i see this guy every morning when i walk to work, as he LIVES up the road from me and gets a coffee every morning before he heads down to beg!
Another Irish couple that hang around begging off everyone in the store st area, (must remind all that this is where Store St Garda Station is but gardas do nothing about these fakes/beggers even though its a tourist spot with bus eireann there and all!) they are in ther early 20's i'd say, the b/f or whatever he is would ask for a smoke off me and i would give him one and all would be fine and he'd have a little chat with me an all that, but then he started to ask a few times a day and i started to say no so he would shout at me and nearly 'go' for me! then his girlfriend would do the next ask/beg two seconds later and the same thing i would refuse and she would go ape ****! These two i am so sure are junkies, but there is millions of junkies around this area.

I am sick of being a nice guy and feeling sorry for people so I dont give change anymore, i will donate to a charity no prob and if the homless want to help themselves, get over there ego/shame they will look for it off the charitys if their situation is real.
Needless to say i have given up smoking now lol.

caseyann

rantyface wrote: »

Where do you think should the babies go when they're begging? A lot of women are homeless because they have had to run away from abusive partners.

From citizen's information
".

I have only once seen a woman homeless on the street with her kids who was Irish,Barr our very own gypsies.Never have i ever come across an Irish woman begging on street with kids.
Those roma gypsies if homeless should not be in the country,and if not should not be in the country.They are organised thieves and beggars and bigger people run them back home in Romania.
Watched a documentary on it few months back.
I had a roma gypsy begging off me one day,i told her when she pretended no speak English.Please girl,i said something to her in Romanian and she laughed.Now speak English with me i said.So she spoke English.It is a gimmick in most cases.
If they are begging and destitute they need to be sent home.
Only thing i do believe is for real is if they dont have enough money or dont hand it up they are beaten.From what i have been told.

StormWarrior

In Budapest a few days ago I was coming out of a train station, people were everywhere handing out leaflets. Just to get past, I accepted a leaflet from some bloke, and then a gypsy girl thrust a peice of paper into my hand. I thought it was a leaflet so I took it and carried on walking but she came after me, saying something in Hungarian. I told her I didn't understand, and she said in English that she was collecting for Hungarian babies, and what she had given me was an envelope, in which I should put money, seal it up and hand it back.

I didn't believe her story, she was wearing gypsy clothes and didn't have any official ID or T-shirt as most official charity collectors do. I looked at the envelope and there was nothing official about it, it was just a cheap envelope. To make sure I had understood her, she took out some paper money and demonstrated putting it in the envelope. I tried to give the envelope back and said I'd think about it. (obviously I wasn't really going to think about it though.) She wouldn't take the envelope back and blocked my path. She said "if you don't have that much then this is ok..." and demonstrated putting a coin in the envelope. I gave her back the envelope, said I'd think about it and rushed away. She started yelling at me in some language, I don't know exactly what she was saying but it was obviously very very rude, she sounded furious.

That must be a common scam there, no-one else was falling for it. I was in Romania on holiday the week before, and I hardly saw any gypsies there. Most Romanians (who are obviously not gypsies) are really nice. The only slight problem I had was in a bus station, some kids aged under 10 were begging. Most people ignored them. I kept a close eye on my bags, but I put my half-empty bottle of orange juice on the floor behind my chair. I didn't think I'd need to keep an eye on that. Well, one of the kids stole it and then went outside walking around asking people to buy it!