Vulnerable Women

WindSock

Just read this post here in the other thread. What is a vulnerable woman, and is that what you look for? I personally can't see that vulnerability is the opposite of cold, argumentitive aggression. Of course no one wants that trait in a partner, but do you look for a woman that is vulnerable and vulnerable to what, exactly?
Granted I know some men like to or feel the desire 'protect' women, and some women want to feel protected. Is that what a vulnerable woman is?

Lemming

TBH, the quote you're using as the basis for this thread qualifies for use of a yardbrush for painting with.

Men love vulnerable women. It's one step away from saying "all men are rapists", or "all women are prostitutes", or some equally stupid, deeply insulting stereotype.

The real question is why would anyone pay anything other than contemptuous scorn to the original question (not yours, but the originating quote taken for this thread)

WindSock

Lemming wrote: »

TBH, the quote you're using as the basis for this thread qualifies for use of a yardbrush for painting with.

Men love vulnerable women. It's one step away from saying "all men are rapists", or "all women are prostitutes", or some equally stupid, deeply insulting stereotype.

The real question is why would anyone pay anything other than contemptuous scorn to the original question (not yours, but the originating quote taken for this thread)

Ah but I used my disclaimer of 'some' down the end so not to use the old tarbrush on the gender as a whole . Yeah the article did make me make a silly face as I was reading it, but I am interested to hear what peoples views are on what a vulnerable woman is, and do they find it an endearing trait.

Lemming

WindSock wrote: »

Ah but I used my disclaimer of 'some' down the end so not to use the old tarbrush on the gender as a whole .

Deftly sidestepped :P

Yeah the article did make me make a silly face as I was reading it, but I am interested to hear what peoples views are on what a vulnerable woman is, and do they find it an endearing trait.

So my partner is vulnerable in some way. That probably means that something is upsetting her, or is at least preying on her mind in an unbenign manner. Do I go "awwww so cute" or do I get concerned and try to help? Anyone who somehow finds someone else's vulernability/discomfort to be endearing needs a sanity check.

Slugs

Lemming wrote: »

So my partner is vulnerable in some way. That probably means that something is upsetting her, or is at least preying on her mind in an unbenign manner. Do I go "awwww so cute" or do I get concerned and try to help? Anyone who somehow finds someone else's vulernability/discomfort to be endearing needs a sanity check.

I think you're talking vulnerability in women to mean tied to the traintracks as the noon train is approaching, waiting for her "man" to rescue her, rather then women having to be somewhat reliant or dependant on their "man". At the end of the day, what have males being doing for the thousand of years? Being the protector, and food gatherer. And it gives them a sense of pride that their "woman" would look at them in that manner, and that they rely on them to protect them. That's what we're talking about here. Not some broken down, drug using, emotional wreck who can't function without using someone as a crutch.

Lemming

Slugs wrote: »

rather then women having to be somewhat reliant or dependant on their "man".

Drum roll .....

men and women are dependant on each other. Why? Well, to paraphrase Bill Hicks: "we're here! ... "

We're reliant and dependent on the opposite sex whether we wish to either acknowledge or realise it. So what's different between reliant and dependent on each other, and "vulnerable" as you described it?

Slugs

Lemming wrote: »

Drum roll .....

men and women are dependant on each other. Why? Well, to paraphrase Bill Hicks: "we're here! ... "

We're reliant and dependent on the opposite sex whether we wish to either acknowledge or realise it. So what's different between reliant and dependent on each other, and "vulnerable" as you described it?

Eh, I don't get the purpose of the Hicks' paraphrase... o.O

And there is no difference, but you're giving the impression that you view vulnerability as what I said initially, rather than a dependance on the opposite sex.

amacachi

WindSock wrote: »

Just read this post here in the other thread. What is a vulnerable woman, and is that what you look for? I personally can't see that vulnerability is the opposite of cold, argumentitive aggression. Of course no one wants that trait in a partner, but do you look for a woman that is vulnerable and vulnerable to what, exactly?
Granted I know some men like to or feel the desire 'protect' women, and some women want to feel protected. Is that what a vulnerable woman is?

It isn't, but a lot of women seem to think that it is and/or don't recognise how they behave.

Kooli

I think vulnerability is an attractive quality in anyone, it's not about 'vulnerable women'.

I think of vulnerability as a quality of showing one's weak spots and insecurities, and being completely open at the risk of being hurt.

The opposite of that is being constantly defended and never wrong, unable to admit to mistakes or weaknesses, and not ever putting oneself 'out there' or risking rejection. So I do see some correlation between coldness and aggression, but they're definitely not the same.

But I don't see this as having anything to do with feminism...

CDfm

:eek: You say vulnerable women and I immediately think basket case and dependant looking for someone else to sort out their lives.

Give me a well adjusted,capable, successful woman anyday.

They are much more fun and more likely to pay for dinner. :cool:

Oh and my g/f is one.

Woohoo for me

Kooli

CDfm wrote: »

:eek: You say vulnerable women and I immediately think basket case and dependant looking for someone else to sort out their lives.

Give me a well adjusted,capable, successful woman anyday.

They are much more fun and more likely to pay for dinner. :cool:

Oh and my g/f is one.

Woohoo for me

I agree, but it's very possible to have all those qualities and still be capable of vulnerability.

I think there's very little space for intimacy in a relationships without vulnerability. I don't think you can have one without the other.

But maybe we're working off different definitions of vulnerability?

CDfm

Its ok to be vilnerable in intimate relationships and thats just dropping your guard a bit or if you feel insecure saying it.

Thats Ok.

But vulnerable as in needy-yuk:pac:

shellyboo

I think vulnerable is the wrong word here... of course pople need to be open in relationships, act as if they actually *need* the other person in their life, otherwise why would they be with them?

I definitely think a lot of women do put on the "strong, independent" face a bit too often these days, but I wouldn't put that down to feminism - I'd put that down to male expectation. According to a lot of men, needy is the worst thing you can ever be. We're petrifed of letting our fella know we might actually want/need him for fear of him running off.

It's very hard to find the happy medium.

CDfm

shellyboo wrote: »

It's very hard to find the happy medium.

It depends ,the house spirit cleaning ones do seem very jittery but the Angel Clairvoyants are usually quite fluffy;)

krudler

Needing someone and being needy arent the same thing. My girlfriend is strong willed, independent and confident, but theres times where she tells me she just wants a big cuddle as she needs it, does that make her "vunerable"? course not, and likewise I just want to fall asleep with her in my arms some nights instead of being in bed by myself, that doesnt make me needy or overprotective of her either, its because I love her and want her around.

LegacyUser

I think theres something in it.

I'm pretty independent and do my own thing. Am bad at asking for help tbh. I met my current fellow after having an accident where I really needed help, and he came along and talked me down and helped me out. We didnt get together that time but bumped into each other a few weeks later.

Before then I never really looked for it in a man but he's the big, strong, protective, confident type and thats really nice. We've feck all in common though

donfers

I don't know why but after snacking on Hunky Dory crisps I am strangely attracted to vulnerable women...weird or what?

Prof.Badass

WindSock wrote: »

Just read this post here in the other thread. What is a vulnerable woman, and is that what you look for? I personally can't see that vulnerability is the opposite of cold, argumentitive aggression. Of course no one wants that trait in a partner, but do you look for a woman that is vulnerable and vulnerable to what, exactly?
Granted I know some men like to or feel the desire 'protect' women, and some women want to feel protected. Is that what a vulnerable woman is?

I think vunreable is the wrong word. It sounds too much like neediness.

I think evolutionarily men want their woman to be somewhat submissive in her body language. I'm not talking about men wanting to boss their woman around, but on a more subconcious physicality-based level.

Most straight men want to feel like they're looking out for the woman, and want the woman to know she has him looking out for her (and want reassurance that she appreciates it too).

It doesn't make much sense in this world, but it did when we were evolving, there were real threats out there and women were (i'm thinking mostly about during pregnancy here) especially vunreable. Hence the evolution of this sort of bond.

I'm not saying every loving relationship has to have this sort of bond, but i find it hard to imagine how anyone could truly be "in love" without it.

However, I don't think telling people to act out a certain gender role is ever the right way of going about things. I am of the opinion that this sort of thing usually happens naturally unless there is something in the way (like a desire to rebel against restrictive gender roles).
The woman in the story seems to be the type that have artificially made themselves cold (maybe because she feels it'll help her succeed in the business world, idk). She needs to realise that perhaps her boyfriend is more needy than her and that she isn't giving him what he needs. He wants to feel appreciated, it sounds to me like he isn't.

Is bitter feminism responsible for this? Possibly.
Is mature gender equality? Definitely not.

Emme

CDfm wrote: »

:eek: You say vulnerable women and I immediately think basket case and dependant looking for someone else to sort out their lives.

Some women put on a vulnerable act to get attention from men. I know one girl who would pretend not to be able to park her car at the races for that very reason and the men would come flocking to park it for her! Personally I would be morto if a man had to park my car for me but I grew up on a farm where vulnerability is not a desirable trait in a woman. You don't see many vulnerable farmers wives or farmers daughters!

shellyboo

krudler wrote: »

Needing someone and being needy arent the same thing. My girlfriend is strong willed, independent and confident, but theres times where she tells me she just wants a big cuddle as she needs it, does that make her "vunerable"? course not, and likewise I just want to fall asleep with her in my arms some nights instead of being in bed by myself, that doesnt make me needy or overprotective of her either, its because I love her and want her around.

I completely agree, and I'm chuffed that you *get* the ways in which people need their partners. But I think a lot of women (perhaps younger women) have it drilled into them that men dislike this sort of reliance on their partner -- as if we can *never* show any sort of slight dependence on our boyfriends in case they run for the hills. And in my experience, that doesn't come from other women or feminism, it comes from blokes and ridiculous girly magazines -- which are in no way, shape or form actually feminist.

krudler

shellyboo wrote: »

I completely agree, and I'm chuffed that you *get* the ways in which people need their partners. But I think a lot of women (perhaps younger women) have it drilled into them that men dislike this sort of reliance on their partner -- as if we can *never* show any sort of slight dependence on our boyfriends in case they run for the hills. And in my experience, that doesn't come from other women or feminism, it comes from blokes and ridiculous girly magazines -- which are in no way, shape or form actually feminist.

It drives me nuts as well, actually when we were first starting out I kind of thought my missus was a bit cold at times towards me, I was always the one who initiated affection, even something as simple as a kiss for no reason or holding her hand, or just walking up behind her and giving her a big hug while she was doing something. I brought it up with her and she said other guys had hated this and thought it was "clingy" :rolleyes: Since when did showing affection for the person you're going out with become clingy? of course nobody wants someone overbearing or constantly seeking attention from you but showing affection and doing things because they want to is fine, I love getting a big squashy hug off her "just because" Im a bit of a sap really

Giselle

Vulnerable doesn't mean needy, does it?

I see being vulnerable to someone as being completely oneself and open to the other. Not a synonym for needy and clingy.

Snowie

Giselle wrote: »

Vulnerable doesn't mean needy, does it?

Absaloutly not.

to me needy would be the Need to be in releationship to affirm a person's securitys in other ways make them feel complete, and useing a reletionship as a counter ballance them from insecutritys.

Vunlrable to me would discribe, some one who has got self confidance, self sesteam, etc but there fragile, there not tough skinned they take things to heart maybe are a bit more sensitive with feelings etc. Maybe slightly coawous(sp).

Nevyn

I think there is a difference between wanting and needing.

I need to breath, I don't need a partner, I may want one and having one makes life over all better (with the right one) but I don't need one, and I don't need to be need, but I want to be wanted. I don't want to be someone happiness, I will gladly add to it but won't be held responsible for it or expect someone to be responsible for mine.

I don't want to be responsible for fixing someone, or fixing thier life, (that was a life lesson that took repeating until I got that one), I don't want them to fix me or fix mine.
Some support and encouragement if I am struggle would be cool, someone to share the planning and the joys, but someone to 'fix' me and my life, no thanks that type tend to do so cos they want a distraction from the things they aren't fixing about themselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UYEZnhnVCg

The Missing Piece Meets the Big O

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCmZ2jrQooE

The Corinthian

I don't think there is any single definition of 'vulnerable' and one my use the term to describe multiple types of people who all exhibit 'vulnerabilities' - both real and contrived.

The danger, found in both genders, is where the 'vulnerable' party uses their 'vulnerability' as a device to manipulate - the ditsy man/woman who needs everything done for them. They tend to be incapable of holding down decent jobs and once in a relationship turn quickly to a role that allows them to remain at home (e.g. homemakers who do little or no housework, unsuccessful freelance [INSERT PROFESSION]) but ultimately not make enough of a living to support themselves or contribute anything substantial in terms of effort to the relationship.

Such people use their 'vulnerable' status to solicit support, moral, physical, emotional and ultimately financial. In childhood they are the 'mammy's boys' and 'little princesses' who never learn to support themselves and so by adulthood become parasites.

Giselle

The Corinthian wrote: »

The danger, found in both genders, is where the 'vulnerable' party uses their 'vulnerability' as a device to manipulate - the ditsy man/woman who needs everything done for them. They tend to be incapable of holding down decent jobs and once in a relationship turn quickly to a role that allows them to remain at home (e.g. homemakers who do little or no housework, unsuccessful freelance [INSERT PROFESSION]) but ultimately not make enough of a living to support themselves or contribute anything substantial in terms of effort to the relationship.

Thats not what I call vulnerable, its what I call a waster.

Emotionally vulnerability can be attractive because (to me) it means open and bared.

Most other kinds of vulnerability as described there implies someone who doesn't take charge or responsiblity for other aspects of their lives, which I find very off-putting as that type is usually really good at the blame game, which I HATE.

CDfm

LOL - I suppose now isnt the time to raise Mary Cleary's book

The Corinthian

Giselle wrote: »

Thats not what I call vulnerable, its what I call a waster.

Emotionally vulnerability can be attractive because (to me) it means open and bared.

Most other kinds of vulnerability as described there implies someone who doesn't take charge or responsiblity for other aspects of their lives, which I find very off-putting as that type is usually really good at the blame game, which I HATE.

Well you're kind of looking for your cake and eat it or 'vulnerable' is not the right word - what you seem to be describing is someone who is very much together, but has a small chink in their emotional armor, and this is not what most people would see as a 'vulnerable' person.

Vulnerable people tend not to be limited to some endearing emotional chink in their armor, but are more often than not a mess. Additionally, if they are not attempting to hide their vulnerability, then there's a good chance that there is a reason for this - as outlined in my previous post.

miss5

I think people would often describe me as "vulnerable" but I'm not a needy person
nor do I like to be treated like one, I guess everyone defines it differently wanting
to be protected in a relationship or a guy being overprotective doesn't make
either person vulnerable it's really a way of showing love.

The Corinthian

miss5 wrote: »

I think people would often describe me as "vulnerable"

Why?

miss5

The Corinthian wrote: »

Why?

I've often heard guys I've dated say it about me, Strangely they liked it
I think they like being over protective. It is often considered a major weakness
though. It differs from person to person I think everyone has a different definition
of it. I know girls who try to manipulate guys by acting that way which is quite
pathetic.

CDfm

Isnt there a difference between someone who is genuinely vulnerable and act up vulnerable.

Do we say small stature is vulnerable or,someone who is timid or insecure.

So miss5 can you sort of define your vulnerability as in are you overly sensitive etc.

You do get pretend vulnerable too from some very manipulative people.

TitoPuente

There's a difference between being emotionally available and vulnerable. Being emotionally available makes you somewhat vulnerable in that you've chosen to place your trust in someone but it's a normal, natural part of being in a relationship. Being fundamentally vulnerable however means your emotions are probably out of kilter. Then again, being emotionally unavailable is even worse.

CDfm

TitoPuente wrote: »

. Being fundamentally vulnerable however means your emotions are probably out of kilter. Then again, being emotionally unavailable is even worse.

Does that mean a nutter because we all have our own sensitivities.

I imagine when we say men are attracted to vulnerable women we are not saying a bag lady but are we saying an attractive woman with problems.

I mean divorced people or single parents at least will be sexually experienced and the assumption will be that they are more sexually available.

The Corinthian

miss5 wrote: »

I've often heard guys I've dated say it about me, Strangely they liked it
I think they like being over protective. It is often considered a major weakness
though. It differs from person to person I think everyone has a different definition
of it.

You've not really answered the question - why so they see you as 'vulnerable'? Unless it is simply something they say to you because you like that role - it does seem to make some women feel more feminine if they are seen as 'vulnerable'.

I know girls who try to manipulate guys by acting that way which is quite
pathetic.

And they would probably agree with you - because it is always someone else who is 'acting that way'.

miss5

CDfm wrote: »

Isnt there a difference between someone who is genuinely vulnerable and act up vulnerable.

Do we say small stature is vulnerable or,someone who is timid or insecure.

So miss5 can you sort of define your vulnerability as in are you overly sensitive etc.

You do get pretend vulnerable too from some very manipulative people.

I think it's diffcult to define as It's not a word I would like to associate with myself
to be honest. Perhaps I am overly sensitive and I've had some difficult past experiences
which make me quite easily wary. In my own situation it's more to do with my boyfriends
wanting the protector role. I've certainly never played on it or manipulated people
because of it. I am a timid person though so I agree with you on that.

CDfm

So its really down to them being more protective of you rather then you being helpless.

It could be the type of guy you go for

*flexes muscles and opens sauce bottle -there you go little lady*

Just teasing -I have some lady friends who would be strong women and hugely protective too.

miss5

CDfm wrote: »

So its really down to them being more protective of you rather then you being helpless.

It could be the type of guy you go for

*flexes muscles and opens sauce bottle -there you go little lady*

Just teasing -I have some lady friends who would be strong women and hugely protective too.

Not quite like that haha

I have some friends who are very strong and independent and I think that's
a wonderful way to be. Unfortunately not everyone can be like that.

I think it is the type of guy I go for actually!