Misfires

kay 9

Lads, just curious if many of you have experienced many misfires with centefire ammo and if so with which brand is it most popular? I have had a few with remmy umc whilst plinkin but never whilst hunting. Tonight I was usin federal power-shok and had 2 misfires one after the other. Is this coincidence or just plain hard luck or both? Never used much federal ammo but tonight I'm kinda disgusted with it after losin out on 2 foxes. However never had a misfire with hornady, must stock up on the better stuff again i think.:rolleyes:

PS. Calibre is .223 just in case that makes any difference;)

Tackleberrywho

kay 9 wrote: »

Lads, just curious if many of you have experienced many misfires with centefire ammo and if so with which brand is it most popular? I have had a few with remmy umc whilst plinkin but never whilst hunting. Tonight I was usin federal power-shok and had 2 misfires one after the other. Is this coincidence or just plain hard luck or both? Never used much federal ammo but tonight I'm kinda disgusted with it after losin out on 2 foxes. However never had a misfire with hornady, must stock up on the better stuff again i think.:rolleyes:

PS. Calibre is .223 just in case that makes any difference;)

Not in .223 but S&B 6.5 ammo Czech Sh1te But that's MY OPINION lol
Look at the depression on the primer, if there is a concentric dimple of decent depth then it is the round, if nit you might have a striking problem!

endasmail

only mis fire out my gun
happened john lambert while checking the zero on my scope
it was with a federal soft point 63 grain i think
god love em he got an awful fright

Johnny_Coyle

Kay,
Where are you getting your supply of ammo? If it is the same dealer, I would find a new supplier.

I have shot a lot of Federal and Remington and never had a misfire - not even once.

If this was some cheap rimfire 22lr, I may be concerned with the ammo, however, I would agree with Tackleberry that you may wish to look at the firing pin. Your failure rate appears to be far greater than anything myself or any other shooter I know has with these brands.

Also, I could see if you were buying the surplus ammo, a few misfires would be expected.

*******************************************************
Now may be a good time to reiterate good practice.

When you do misfire, you should always WAIT AT LEAST ONE MINUTE BEFORE EXPELLING THE ROUND WHILE KEEPING THE GUN POINTED DOWNRANGE!!!

I was shooting some surplus corrosive stuff once upon a time and pulled the trigger, seven seconds later BOOM!!! That's just enough time for the impatient to throw the round out and have it explode in close proximity to others.
*******************************************************

Tackleberrywho

Johnny_Coyle wrote: »

Kay,
Where are you getting your supply of ammo? If it is the same dealer, I would find a new supplier.

I have shot a lot of Federal and Remington and never had a misfire - not even once.

If this was some cheap rimfire 22lr, I may be concerned with the ammo, however, I would agree with Tackleberry that you may wish to look at the firing pin. Your failure rate appears to be far greater than anything myself or any other shooter I know has with these brands.

Also, I could see if you were buying the surplus ammo, a few misfires would be expected.

*******************************************************
Now may be a good time to reiterate good practice.

When you do misfire, you should always WAIT AT LEAST ONE MINUTE BEFORE EXPELLING THE ROUND WHILE KEEPING THE GUN POINTED DOWNRANGE!!!

I was shooting some surplus corrosive stuff once upon a time and pulled the trigger, seven seconds later BOOM!!! That's just enough time for the impatient to throw the round out and have it explode in close proximity to others.
*******************************************************

As above, after 90 seconds check ammo to see depression.
I had a Krico that's firing pin would dull and not strike.

It's either one or the other.

I have not bought cheap ammo in 10 years so i can not comment about ammo!

Check percussion cap

kay 9

endasmail wrote: »

only mis fire out my gun
happened john lambert while checking the zero on my scope
it was with a federal soft point 63 grain i think
god love em he got an awful fright

Interesting, these were 64 grain soft points also. ( hmm) I think it was just hard luck though. I will be stickin with the "reliable" from now on, apart from umc for a bit of accasional plinking.

kay 9

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

As above, after 30 seconds check ammo to see depression.
I had a Krico that's firing pin would dull and not strike.

It's either one or the other.

I have not bought cheap ammo in 10 years so i can not comment about ammo!

Check percussion cap

There is a decent indent in the percussion caps on both. So I think it's just a harmless misfire. Just was annoying as I had the crosshairs on 2 foxes and all I had was a click:rolleyes: Anyway, **** happens. Was just curious as to what other lads had to say. Cheers fellas, apppreciate all feedback:)

johngalway

Silly question, did you have the bolt handle fully down? I had a "click" the last day, my own fault because I hadn't the handle down fully.

meathstevie

It's probably not a bad idea to check or replace your firing pin. It might have worn a little bit and not strike deep or hard enough anymore. They do need changing sometimes and should be easily accessible and are relatively inexpensive.

Half-cocked

A few years back a huge batch of Hull cartridges were misfiring in Brownings and Mirokus, mostly top barrel. The caps were recessed a bit too far and the pin couldn't strike them deep enough to fire. I lengthened a few firing pins by .1mm for a few clay shooters to fix the problem. Worth checking any rifle mis-fires to see if the caps are to deep, it shouldn't happen, but it did with Hull who are a reputable manufacturer.

kay 9

johngalway wrote: »

Silly question, did you have the bolt handle fully down? I had a "click" the last day, my own fault because I hadn't the handle down fully.

It was John. I always make sure of that.

kay 9

Half-cocked wrote: »

A few years back a huge batch of Hull cartridges were misfiring in Brownings and Mirokus, mostly top barrel. The caps were recessed a bit too far and the pin couldn't strike them deep enough to fire. I lengthened a few firing pins by .1mm for a few clay shooters to fix the problem. Worth checking any rifle mis-fires to see if the caps are to deep, it shouldn't happen, but it did with Hull who are a reputable manufacturer.

How do i check the depth of the caps? Is there a simple way as I dont think a calipers will do. 0.1mm is specialist measurements:p Think I'll just change the pin anyway. Will save me wondering and know what the reason is if it happens again.

Tackleberrywho

kay 9 wrote: »

How do i check the depth of the caps? Is there a simple way as I dont think a calipers will do. 0.1mm is specialist measurements:p Think I'll just change the pin anyway. Will save me wondering and know what the reason is if it happens again.

Use a visual with a round from another rifle of same calibre.

or yes if you can use a pin in the recess and then take the measurement off the pin. Most freely available calipers can not fit inside the dimple, so this might sort you out. You could also measure the firing pin it self if you have a new one to compare against of dimensions.

Not sure how difficult it could be to do this, you would have to take your bolt apart and no point doing this unless you know how to.

Half-cocked

kay 9 wrote: »

How do i check the depth of the caps? Is there a simple way as I dont think a calipers will do. 0.1mm is specialist measurements:p Think I'll just change the pin anyway. Will save me wondering and know what the reason is if it happens again.

Put a straight edge (eg a ruler) across the base of the cartridge and hold up to the light. Do the same with a good cartridge. If the cap is recessed enought to cause a misfire, you will see the difference without resorting to depth micrometers etc.

kay 9

Thanks for them replies lads, I'll give them ideas a go. As ye said if I could measure and compare the firing pins from another rifle of same calibre I think a decent digital calipers woudl do the job. Should have thought of that myself:o Certainly easier than measuring the depth of the indent in the round.

Cheers fellas

pajero2005

Johnny_Coyle wrote: »

*******************************************************

When you do misfire, you should always WAIT AT LEAST ONE MINUTE BEFORE EXPELLING THE ROUND WHILE KEEPING THE GUN POINTED DOWNRANGE!!!

Now that is good advice for both novice and experienced shooters. You can never be TOO safe, but it's very easy to be complacent.

Johnny_Coyle wrote: »

I was shooting some surplus corrosive stuff once upon a time and pulled the trigger, seven seconds later BOOM!!! That's just enough time for the impatient to throw the round out and have it explode in close proximity to others.
*******************************************************

I think I would have soiled myself:eek::eek:

johngalway

As Johnny has said, be patient if all you hear is "click". Opening a chamber to be greeted by a loud bang and bright flash will at best leave you feeling rather foolish and possibly a little soggy in the hind quarters. That duck/fox/deer/pic of Osama Bin Laden just isn't worth part of a hand/your sight/etc.

Be safe, be generous with time in those circumstances.

Tackleberrywho

johngalway wrote: »

As Johnny has said, be patient if all you hear is "click". Opening a chamber to be greeted by a loud bang and bright flash will at best leave you feeling rather foolish and possibly a little soggy in the hind quarters. That duck/fox/deer/pic of Osama Bin Laden just isn't worth part of a hand/your sight/etc.

Be safe, be generous with time in those circumstances.

I actually think in the DF it is 2 minutes on small arms, but I could be corrected on that. Keeping rifle pointed at backstop whilst counting.
Get a snap cap and that is the safest way to check the firing pin. Fire it and bring it to your RFD and show him or anybody with the same calibre and compare

Rovi

Johnny_Coyle wrote: »

*******************************************************
Now may be a good time to reiterate good practice.

When you do misfire, you should always WAIT AT LEAST ONE MINUTE BEFORE EXPELLING THE ROUND WHILE KEEPING THE GUN POINTED DOWNRANGE!!!

I was shooting some surplus corrosive stuff once upon a time and pulled the trigger, seven seconds later BOOM!!! That's just enough time for the impatient to throw the round out and have it explode in close proximity to others.
*******************************************************

As has already been said, the above is excellent advice.

Just as a point of clarification, when a round goes off after a delay is known as a 'hangfire'. A 'misfire' is when it never goes off.
'Hangfires' start off looking like 'misfires'.

The most dangerous time for a hangfire to go off is when the bolt is unlocked but before the round is ejected. It will still be constrained to some degree or other by the chamber and the bullet may be able to engage the throat/rifling and allow pressures to build to dangerous levels.
The bolt could get propelled backwards with considerable violence and/or the partially constrained case could burst, spraying brass shrapnel out of the ejection port.
A full ejected hangfire can still be a hazard, but the expanding gasses can dissipate almost instantly and the flying bullet and case would be much less likely to cause serious injury.
They'll still cause a brown-trousers moment for everyone concerned though.

When ejecting a misfire (after giving it a couple of minutes to turn into a hangfire if it's going to), it's a good idea to keep your valuable body parts as far away from the ejection port and from behind the bolt as possible

kay 9

I know a gunsmith not so far from me that was changing the extractors in a bolt and had the brutal misfortune to lose most of his hand due to a round still being in the chamber. I'm not 100% sure of the full detail of how it occured but he explained that it was excruciatinng pain. Better to leave anything dodgy for the 2 mins. One can never be too careful..;)

pedroeibar1

Rovi wrote: »

As has already been said, the above is excellent advice.

Just as a point of clarification, when a round goes off after a delay is known as a 'hangfire'. A 'misfire' is when it never goes off.
'Hangfires' start off looking like 'misfires'.

The most dangerous time for a hangfire to go off is when the bolt is unlocked but before the round is ejected. It will still be constrained to some degree or other by the chamber and the bullet may be able to engage the throat/rifling and allow pressures to build to dangerous levels.
The bolt could get propelled backwards with considerable violence and/or the partially constrained case could burst, spraying brass shrapnel out of the ejection port.
A full ejected hangfire can still be a hazard, but the expanding gasses can dissipate almost instantly and the flying bullet and case would be much less likely to cause serious injury.
They'll still cause a brown-trousers moment for everyone concerned though.

When ejecting a misfire (after giving it a couple of minutes to turn into a hangfire if it's going to), it's a good idea to keep your valuable body parts as far away from the ejection port and from behind the bolt as possible

Good post, refers to rifles. It is worse with shotguns, as the shooter inevitable breaks open the gun and LOOKS at the cartridge in wonderment:eek:. If it happens with a shotty, wait the minute, and keeping the barrels pointing at the ground, break the gun so that the chambers face away from you. That way, should the round go off, it will disappear in safe directions and not into your face.
I've had a few misfires, never a hangfire, and the cause was a thin flange on the cartridge base.
P.

Johnny_Coyle

Rovi,
Not quite sure of the verbiage. I always used "misfire" when the gun missed firing the projectile. Hang fire was when the projectile was fired but lodged in the barrel.

What do ye call a projectile that fails to clear the barrel? Other than dangerous, of course.

Rovi

Johnny_Coyle wrote: »

What do ye call a projectile that fails to clear the barrel? Other than dangerous, of course.

On any courses I've done and in conversation with others ever since, that'd be referred to as a 'Squib'.

Here are the terms as I've always been taught and understand them:
Misfire: when the cartridge completely fails to fire
Hangfire: when the cartridge fires after a delay
Squib: when the cartridge fires but with reduced power

johngalway

Rovi wrote: »

Squib: when the cartridge fires but with reduced power

The origins of "damp squib" if powder got wet?

meathstevie

Rovi wrote: »

On any courses I've done and in conversation with others ever since, that'd be referred to as a 'Squib'.

Here are the terms as I've always been taught and understand them:
Misfire: when the cartridge completely fails to fire
Hangfire: when the cartridge fires after a delay
Squib: when the cartridge fires but with reduced power

You'll notice a squib when the shot is too quiet and the recoil too soft compared with what you're used to.

If that happens, unload and inspect your gun. A bullet or shot and wad could be lodged halfway up the spout and you don't want to know what you'll look like if you happen to fire one after it.

The odd time that sort of thing happens most likely what happened is that there's no propellant but only a primer in the round.