Opinions on TSL 602/Tubes vs Solid State

Is1ldur

Posted this on another forum, but thought you guys might also be able to offer advice;
Hi all,
Looking at a 2nd hand Marshall TSL602 combo at the moment, but can anyone tell me if it really is that much better than the Line 6 Spider 2 112 75 Watt that I currently have. I'm not a huge fan of the Line 6, don't use any of the effects, just a clean tone, a bit of reverb and a (dare I say it) Metal Zone pedal. I remember playing through a JCM 2000 (or it may have been a JCM 800) combo years ago and really loving it, but I don't have any real experience of the Tube vs Solidstate arguments. Can any of you enlighten me somewhat?
I do always seem to want more (edge/bite/tone?) from an amp than I have had with the Line 6 or from my previous Laney Linebacker. Should I also be looking to change my BC Rich Bich NJ, or will the Marshall give me something more?
Finally, what should I be looking out for on a 2nd hand Marshall TSL 602. Are there any obvious issues that I need to know about before I hand over the cash.
I do appreciate any answers you guys can give me. I've never really put too much thought into my amps (obviously)!
Thanks.

stephenshields2

Is1ldur wrote: »

Posted this on another forum, but thought you guys might also be able to offer advice;
Hi all,
Looking at a 2nd hand Marshall TSL602 combo at the moment, but can anyone tell me if it really is that much better than the Line 6 Spider 2 112 75 Watt that I currently have. I'm not a huge fan of the Line 6, don't use any of the effects, just a clean tone, a bit of reverb and a (dare I say it) Metal Zone pedal. I remember playing through a JCM 2000 (or it may have been a JCM 800) combo years ago and really loving it, but I don't have any real experience of the Tube vs Solidstate arguments. Can any of you enlighten me somewhat?
I do always seem to want more (edge/bite/tone?) from an amp than I have had with the Line 6 or from my previous Laney Linebacker. Should I also be looking to change my BC Rich Bich NJ, or will the Marshall give me something more?
Finally, what should I be looking out for on a 2nd hand Marshall TSL 602. Are there any obvious issues that I need to know about before I hand over the cash.
I do appreciate any answers you guys can give me. I've never really put too much thought into my amps (obviously)!
Thanks.

Dear god, I hope your not serious. :eek:

The Marshall is going to defeat the Line 6 in nearly every way.

And forget about sound modeling (ala Line 6) beacause your guitar tone will always be lacking something, and always sound artificial.

I have a TSL 100 head, and I get brilliant clean tones, great old school bluesy tones, some real crunchy AC/DC-ish tones, and of course, an assortment of fantastic metal tones, with the help of my friends Mr. Tubescreamer and Mr. Zakk Wylde Overdrive.

And in my opinion, drop the whole Boss Metal Zone business when you get a tube amp, because its a total waste to not be using a tube amps own distortion!


Edit: And yes, change your BC Rich Bich... Give it to me!

Sandvich

THe Marshall will be better than the Line 6 Spider. Contrary to popular belief, modelers are not always "Flat". Grab one of the Digitech modeling pedals, and it's pretty decent. You may be best going with a good clean amp and a modeling pedal.

Cheap modelling combos don't tend to take pedals as well, I don't know why. I had an AD30VT(valvetronix) and it was awkward. Though I now own a Pandora PX4D, and it takes pedals very well. Being able to change the cab for each amp helps a lot; some of the cleaner models on the Valvetronix had cabs with awkward EQ(the really clean one had a fairly full range response so pedals sounded fizzy).

IMO, if you're playing Death Metal and are looking to cheap out, get a Peavey Bandit Transtube. Seriously. First off, At The Gates was a Boss HM-2 into a Metal Zone into a Peavey Bandit, so you can probably nail that tone, and second, I've honestly heard the Bandit do fantastically in blind tests against the JCM2000 amp. I've considered getting one myself, but I like my Dirty Bomb pedal an awful lot for metal so I'm unsure I need a good metal amp, just a good lower gain amp.

http://www.netmusicians.org/files/98-Amp%205.mp3

http://www.netmusicians.org/files/44-Amp%206.mp3

See if you can tell which is which.

And in my opinion, drop the whole Boss Metal Zone business when you get a tube amp, because its a total waste to not be using a tube amps own distortion!

Not true, Swedish Death Metal was based around the sound of a Boss HM-2 and some even used a Metal Zone. The Metal Zone actually sounds great as a boost into an amp rather than using all it's dirt. I think this could be how some of these pedals were designed, and the "gain" knob is just to bring it into sick territory. Also you don't need a tube amp to play metal. A lot of the tightest metal tones come from SS amps like the Peavey Bandit, or the 80s Valvestates(Death). Also; a good rule of thumb; If it's good enough for Dave Gilmour, it's good enough for you

Sandvich

Both of those clips are boosted with an OD though, I'd recommend getting one especially for SOLOs.

Paolo_M

Sandvich wrote: »

IMO, if you're playing Death Metal and are looking to cheap out, get a Peavey Bandit Transtube. Seriously. First off, At The Gates was a Boss HM-2 into a Metal Zone into a Peavey Bandit, so you can probably nail that tone, and second, I've honestly heard the Bandit do fantastically in blind tests against the JCM2000 amp. I've considered getting one myself, but I like my Dirty Bomb pedal an awful lot for metal so I'm unsure I need a good metal amp, just a good lower gain amp.

http://www.netmusicians.org/files/98-Amp%205.mp3

http://www.netmusicians.org/files/44-Amp%206.mp3

See if you can tell which is which.

I hope the second one is the Marshall for it's own sake, it's got more punch and clarity to it.
The noise gate setting on it sounds kinda weird though.

It's not really my taste in tone either way but that's the tone from these two I'd use for recording.

Sandvich

Second one's the Bandit :P (I'm relatively sure, I don't remember exactly). The other amp is a DSL50 head.

Listening back it does seem a bit more processed somehow. But the Marshall is a a bit less tight too.

rcaz

stephenshields2 wrote: »

And in my opinion, drop the whole Boss Metal Zone business when you get a tube amp, because its a total waste to not be using a tube amps own distortion!

But pedal distortion is so lovely and comes in so many different kinds!

Paolo_M

Sandvich wrote: »

Second one's the Bandit :P (I'm relatively sure, I don't remember exactly). The other amp is a DSL50 head.

Listening back it does seem a bit more processed somehow. But the Marshall is a a bit less tight too.

I'm not suprised really.
I would still pick the second tone, it's streets ahead of the first one for the style of music. The first clip is a real mess.

The sceptical side of me would suggest that the person dialing in these amps may have had an agenda.
A DSL with low boost (or whatever it's called) engaged with the red lead mode is a pretty incoherant, fizzy mess even without a distortion/OD pedal in front of it. When properly dialed in they can do some pretty cool tones though.

Would like to hear the same riff, without OD pedal, on a properly dialed in 5150 or SLO.

Sandvich

Paolo_M wrote: »

I'm not suprised really.
I would still pick the second tone, it's streets ahead of the first one for the style of music. The first clip is a real mess.

The sceptical side of me would suggest that the person dialing in these amps may have had an agenda.
A DSL with low boost (or whatever it's called) engaged with the red lead mode is a pretty incoherant, fizzy mess even without a distortion/OD pedal in front of it. When properly dialed in they can do some pretty cool tones though.

Would like to hear the same riff, without OD pedal, on a properly dialed in 5150 or SLO.

I actually like the JCM2000 family, they cop some nice tones. I like Marshalls for metal. My favourite metal tone is probably from Opeth's Orchid which is a Boss HM-2 into a JCM800.

Apparently the Bandit's fairly similar to a 5150. The 5150/6505 can be pretty fizzy at times though not as bad as the Dual Rec. SLO is pretty godly. Have you seen those new Jet City amps?

Paolo_M

Sandvich wrote: »

I actually like the JCM2000 family, they cop some nice tones. I like Marshalls for metal. My favourite metal tone is probably from Opeth's Orchid which is a Boss HM-2 into a JCM800.

Apparently the Bandit's fairly similar to a 5150. The 5150/6505 can be pretty fizzy at times though not as bad as the Dual Rec. SLO is pretty godly. Have you seen those new Jet City amps?

Can't beat the boosted JCM800s. Stick a clean boost in front, crank the master to 4 or more and it will not be beaten for any rock/metal tones. Kind of impractical at that volume though...

The second clip does have that 5150 grind and punch to it. It's still dialed in with too much gain though, in my opinion. 5150 and Dual Rec can both be dialed in with little fizz, huge punch and overall awesomeness in the hands of the right person.
SLO just is awesome full stop.
Both the 5150 and Dual Recs are direct copies of the SLO anyway. Peavey and Mesa both tried to squeeze a little more gain but it turns out that Soldano had it right the first time. (I'm aware that there are slightly unique design elements to both amps but the core circuitry is identical.)

Seen the Jet City stuff. Never played one so can't comment.
Part of me wants them not to succeed because of their manufacturing policies but the truth is that many of the other major manufacturers are doing the same thing but still charging a premium price, at least Jet City are selling cheap.

Marshall Ireland

Is1ldur wrote: »

Posted this on another forum, but thought you guys might also be able to offer advice;
Hi all,
Looking at a 2nd hand Marshall TSL602 combo at the moment, but can anyone tell me if it really is that much better than the Line 6 Spider 2 112 75 Watt that I currently have. I'm not a huge fan of the Line 6, don't use any of the effects, just a clean tone, a bit of reverb and a (dare I say it) Metal Zone pedal. I remember playing through a JCM 2000 (or it may have been a JCM 800) combo years ago and really loving it, but I don't have any real experience of the Tube vs Solidstate arguments. Can any of you enlighten me somewhat?
I do always seem to want more (edge/bite/tone?) from an amp than I have had with the Line 6 or from my previous Laney Linebacker. Should I also be looking to change my BC Rich Bich NJ, or will the Marshall give me something more?
Finally, what should I be looking out for on a 2nd hand Marshall TSL 602. Are there any obvious issues that I need to know about before I hand over the cash.
I do appreciate any answers you guys can give me. I've never really put too much thought into my amps (obviously)!
Thanks.

Whatever I say will be construed as being biased- suffice as to say that if you want tone you need valves. If you want ballsy non fizzy overdrive, a set of ECC83's or mix is mandatory.
You're style will dictate the configuration of your amp ie. TSL602 is a 60w 2 x 12 Triple superlead- you may want to experiment with heads and cabs before making your decision.

stephenshields2

Marshall Ireland wrote: »

Whatever I say will be construed as being biased- suffice as to say that if you want tone you need valves. If you want ballsy non fizzy overdrive, a set of ECC83's or mix is mandatory.
You're style will dictate the configuration of your amp ie. TSL602 is a 60w 2 x 12 Triple superlead- you may want to experiment with heads and cabs before making your decision.

Everybody take notes on what this guy says, he knows his shizz!

eamonntheviking

Had one of these years ago, couldn't recommend it. The speakers in the amp are pretty terrible, Celestion designed speakers, nothing like real celestions, very little low end and really peaky sounding. Doesn't sound too bad when plugged into a good cabinet, however I think you could still find something better for the money.

I'd recommend getting a seperate 2x12 and a head as well, a 2x12 combo might possibly be the most awkward thing ever to carry around.

Eoin Madsen

To be honest, I'd rate the Spider. I recorded plenty of DSL and TSL combos back 2002-2005, as well as the Spider 112, and the Spider came out on top quite clearly. I went as far as to eventually buy one for the studio to try and get myself out of having to record some many poxy Marshall combos (the DSL/TSL combos were the best of them, which is saying very little).

In general, valve amps are usually better than modelling amps to my ear. It just happens that the modern Marshall valve combos are some of the worst valve amps going, imo.

Sandvich

Marshall Ireland wrote: »

Whatever I say will be construed as being biased- suffice as to say that if you want tone you need valves. If you want ballsy non fizzy overdrive, a set of ECC83's or mix is mandatory.
You're style will dictate the configuration of your amp ie. TSL602 is a 60w 2 x 12 Triple superlead- you may want to experiment with heads and cabs before making your decision.

Did you at least listen to the Bandit/JCM2000 blind test?

For metal especially SS is acceptable since it's mostly preamp gain.

Sandvich

Eoin Madsen wrote: »

To be honest, I'd rate the Spider. I recorded plenty of DSL and TSL combos back 2002-2005, as well as the Spider 112, and the Spider came out on top quite clearly. I went as far as to eventually buy one for the studio to try and get myself out of having to record some many poxy Marshall combos (the DSL/TSL combos were the best of them, which is saying very little).

In general, valve amps are usually better than modelling amps to my ear. It just happens that the modern Marshall valve combos are some of the worst valve amps going, imo.

I've heard dodgy things about then alright, like the JCM2000 combos getting so hot they desolder the rectifier(!?).

Spiders are a bit **** though. Dunno about the new ones, could be a lot better. Vypyrs are generally better modelling amps but have reliability issues.

The advantage of the Spider is the direct out which few tube amps have(requires a built in dummy load, which is kinda wasteful with high watt amps or VERY good preamp tone).

Micing is a nightmare, going direct is better for recording.

The new bandits have a direct out(finally) as well.