deer cull in phoenix park

magicbastarder

80 deer culled by snipers in the phoenix park this year - what caught my eye was that the carcasses are left in situ to be dealt with by the other wildlife; i wouldn't have expected that in a public park.

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/phoenix-park-defends-cull-as-80-deer-are-shot-2175459.html

Spiritoftheseventies

magicbastarder wrote: »

80 deer culled by snipers in the phoenix park this year - what caught my eye was that the carcasses are left in situ to be dealt with by the other wildlife; i wouldn't have expected that in a public park.

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/phoenix-park-defends-cull-as-80-deer-are-shot-2175459.html

Well unless there is a public health issue re the carcasses wouldn't think its a problem. As for the cull, I'm sure its every motorists nightmare realized when a deer runs out in front of them. Some insurance companies as far as i know dont cover damage done to cars involving accidents of this sort. So culling is very much a necessity.

It wasn't me!

The cull is carried out by NPWS employees, not "snipers", and the carcasses are not left in situ. They seem to have made that mistake from the comment that they "enter the food chain". What was meant was that they're sent to game dealers and enter the human food chain.

magicbastarder

ah - i had thought it would be odd that they'd leave animal carcasses in a public park (from an amenity point of view, not so much human health), even if they had been left in discreet locations.

Spiritoftheseventies

magicbastarder wrote: »

ah - i had thought it would be odd that they'd leave animal carcasses in a public park (from an amenity point of view, not so much human health), even if they had been left in discreet locations.

Yes never noticed that deer reserve last time I was up at Phoenix Par near the popes cross. Its a public park which attracts a lot of tourists as well so you have to assume folks in charge know what they are doing.

It wasn't me!

It's controlled by NPWS. That herd is the highest quality herd of park fallow deer in Europe as well, so they're doing something right!

magicbastarder

It wasn't me! wrote: »

That herd is the highest quality herd of park fallow deer in Europe as well, so they're doing something right!

how is quality judged?

It wasn't me!

magicbastarder wrote: »

how is quality judged?

The qualification I'm taking it from is the proportion and population density of bucks which would make trophy classes if shot. The culling of weaker and inferior bucks helps promote this, while the culling of does and young controls population.

meathstevie

And there's no safety issues either. We're talking about folks who're very experienced hunters/marksmen, which is a very different breed of shooting than the sort a military or Garda sniper would do.

For starters they would use an expanding lead softpointed or plastic tipped ( little plastic tip on the very point to initiate rapid expansion ) bullet which is highly likely to have the deer dead on the ground before it's even heard the shot and would lose all or nearly all of it's energy in the deer's body and as such eliminating the risk of a stray bullet. Of course a NPWS ranger isn't infallible so every shot would be taken in front of a suitable backstop, as in a place where a bullet can safely impact when the target is missed. Quite likely the type of rifle used would be a typical bolt action .243 or .25-06 or similar hunting rifle with high quality optical sights ( think around €3000 for a suitable rifle and sight package ).

On the other hand military and police would use what's called full metal jacket bullets ( Geneva Conventions and human rights and all that ) mostly in 5.56 and 7.62 NATO caliber that are quite likely to travel straight through a deer without an instant kill and sufficient energy transfer and end up god knows where. Police and military sniper equipment although highly accurate and very good tools for their specific job is not all that suitable for hunting/culling. A sniper's rifle also tends to be comparetively much heavier than a hunting rifle which doesn't help if you have to carry it around on foot all day.

To give you folks an idea below is a picture of what a sniper rifle looks like and what a hunting rifle looks like.

sniper rilfe.jpg

hunting rifle.png

Spiritoftheseventies

Just curious what is the protocol for disposal of the carcasus.

imom922

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Well unless there is a public health issue re the carcasses wouldn't think its a problem. As for the cull, I'm sure its every motorists nightmare realized when a deer runs out in front of them. Some insurance companies as far as i know dont cover damage done to cars involving accidents of this sort. So culling is very much a necessity.

The park bylaws says your insurance does not cover you for accidents in the park, if your unlucky enough to hit a deer it comes out of your own pocket.

It wasn't me!

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Just curious what is the protocol for disposal of the carcasus.

They go to game dealers and enter the food chain, sold to butchers, restaurants, hotels and supermarkets. They'll be checked on site for disease and the like and only perfectly healthy carcasses will make it to the food chain, but rejections are extremely rare. That's from deer-shooting in general; park herds might be different, but I shouldn't think so, particularly in a herd as healthy as the one in question.

meathstevie

It isn't an issue of bylaws as such when it comes to it. The deer in the Phoenix Park like all other wild deer in Ireland are wild animals and have no owner so nobody is responsible for where they roam. The Phoeninx Park is OPW land but the deer are wild animals, just like the rabbits, foxes, badgers, woodpigeons, ducks, squirrels, etc, etc in the Phoenix Park. The only reason the NPWS culls some every year is for herd management reasons.

The only way someone can appropriate a wild animal is through either hunting or trapping. ( Not too sure what the position is re crashing into it with a car. )

It would be like driving over a badger on the open road at night and wrecking the front of your car. Sorting out the damage would be entirely your problem, same with Park deer.

johngalway

"Snipers are employed each year to control deer numbers in the park and just under 400 deer have been slaughtered on the park since 2004."

The Irish media. It's far more likely to have been a stalker or marksman than they mystical "sniper" who seems to pop up in our rags any time hunting with rifles get's a mention. I suppose it's too much to ask of them to actually do some terminology research.

"The cull occurs annually around February over two days and the carcasses are left to be eaten by carnivorous birds and animals that live in the park."

If correct, and I'm mindful of my first comment, I find that practice bizarre and wasteful.

"We follow the strictest health and safety guidelines. The selected animals are shot, which is more environmentally friendly than poison. It is done as swiftly, safely and humanely as possible."

Unless they were asked a direct question, why even mention poison? And who poisons deer anyhow? Even more bizarre, stop digging.

"It is usually necessary to carry out the shooting over two or more days as the deer get spooked when they hear a lot of gunshots. After the deer are culled, they enter the food chain," the spokesperson added."

So... which is it, are they being left for the carnivorous birds and other animals or are they entering the food chain? If my rifle was as accurate as this type of contradictory reporting I'd use it to bang fence posts into the ground.

"The culling takes place at a time when there are not many people in the park and the shooting takes place from a raised platform for safety reasons."

The reason for the raised platform is in case a bullet exits the far side of the deer. The bullet has been fired from a raised angle so will continue downwards until it digs into the ground. Standard safety practice on flat ground.

Sometimes I do wonder about reporters and spokespeople. Someone isn't keeping their eye on the ball.

I agree with the cull mind you.

Spiritoftheseventies

RE that pic . How far away do the deer reside from Popes cross. Is that their natural habitat?

magicbastarder

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

RE that pic . How far away do the deer reside from Popes cross. Is that their natural habitat?

that looks like it's taken from the fifteen acres, which is usually the easiest place to see the deer - mainly because it's so open. they tend to be found more on the south side of the main avenue.

Valmont

I stopped reading after "Sniper" and "slaughtered". I've hunted before, can I tell people I'm a sniper now?

johngalway

Valmont wrote: »

I stopped reading after "Sniper" and "slaughtered". I've hunted before, can I tell people I'm a sniper now?

Only if you make up stories about your "time" in some hot war zone, then you can add mercenary as well.

meathstevie

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

RE that pic . How far away do the deer reside from Popes cross. Is that their natural habitat?

If you look at the Phoenix Park as a mixture of woodland and grassland it indeed is a great habitat for deer. Don't think the deer give a fiddlers about a Papal or any other cross.

Spiritoftheseventies

meathstevie wrote: »

If you look at the Phoenix Park as a mixture of woodland and grassland it indeed is a great habitat for deer. Don't think the deer give a fiddlers about a Papal or any other cross.

Could be a sign though all the same. Oh ye of little faith