Czech warcrimes

Morlar

Footage has emerged in the Czech republic and been shown on national TV showing the rounding up and execution of 42 germans in Prague in 1945.

The link worked for me in Firefox (there is also a video link on this page):

http://www.ct24.cz/domaci/89000-zabijeni-po-cesku-drasticke-zabery-vrazdeni-nemeckych-civilistu/

http://praguemonitor.com/2010/05/06/mfd-czech-television-show-film-mass-execution-germans

MfD: Czech Television to show film on mass execution of Germans
ČTK |
6 May 2010

Prague, May 5 (CTK) - The public broadcaster Czech Television (CT) will show on Thursday a film in which Czech amateur filmmaker Jiri Chmelicek recorded a brutal execution of 42 Germans in civilian clothes in May 1945, Mlada fronta Dnes (MfD) writes Wednesday.

The family was hiding the film on the brutality of the "Revolutionary Guards" (RG, para-military units spontaneously established at the close of World War Two) for a long time, but it decided to publish it 65 years later, MfD.

The documentary Killing in the Czech Way will be projected by the programme CT2 at 20:00 on Thursday, it adds.

The film records the atmosphere of the days in May 1945.

Historians say it is a valuable document casting some light on a dark chapter of the Czech anti-Nazi resistance.

Chmelicek shot the film from the windows of his flat.

In it, RG members make Germans march along a street in Prague, pushing them to a ditch and shooting them dead.

Then they drove with a lorry over the mortally or seriously injured German civilians.

The family was keeping the film in hiding for decades. The authorities knew someone had shot the brutal scene, but they never managed to find the author.

The calls for the amateur filmmaker to report to them were fruitless as well, MfD writes.

"My father was afraid that his film on the atrocities committed by the RG would be confiscated. The shots showed the Prague Uprising in quite a different light then official propaganda," Chmelicek's daughter Helena Dvorackova said.

Experts said the May 1945 events should be approached in the right context.

"Naturally, the killing of German civilians is absolutely unexcusable. But we should bear in mind the atrocities committed on Czechs by members of the Waffen-SS or Hitlerjugend during the Prague Uprising," Eduard Stehlik, from the Military Historical Institute, told the paper.

SS members captured two Czech officers who acted as negotiators and drove by a tank over their heads.

Fanatical Hitlerjugend youths were also very active in this field. They put out captured civilians' eyes, slashed their throats and made them living shields in street fights, historians said.

SS members threw hand grenades into the cellars in which Praguers were seeking shelter during the fights at the close of the war.

Historians say that Czech collaborators were often involved in the lynching of Germans. They often deliberately got rid of troublesome witnesses of their denunciating activities.

The uprising started throughout the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia on May 5, 1945. Almost 1700 Czechs died during the uprising in Prague.

This is disturbing footage of what appears to be administrative germans and non military personnel. Needless to say as it was a warcrime against germans it's not going to result in any lobby groups clamouring for trials anytime soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1wLajNjQPw

FiSe

It's not as rosy as it seems...

What is missing from the English translation is, that this film went through examination in the Czech Military History Museum and the results are that this particular killing was done by the Red Army troops.

Apparently those unfortunate people are shot with the types of bullets used either with a pistol or the PPS 'Spagin' MG.

The truck, riding over the dead bodies, have AA gun in tow and the lorry itself is, as someone could recognize already, Studebaker, which was supplied to the Sov. Union under the Lend Lease Act and used by RA in mass numbers.

There is series of newly published photographs related to this incident, which shows funeral and graves of two RA soldiers killed just before this massacre. Apparently there was a sniper operating in that part of the city days after the end of the war. I think the date was 10th of May 1945. *)

The title on the U-toobe video says something about Sudetendeutsche, which isn't the case as this crime happened in Prague.

Nevertheless, no excuses and it only shows that there wasn't really too much of difference between Nazis and Commies.
Oh, and the Revolutionary Guards . . . heroes 5 past 12, criminal mob.

*) 9 pictures on this page, the group on the first 3 photographs is different group than the group which was murdered latter. Unfo can't find English translation: http://www.vhu.cz/en/novinky/192

Fuinseog

'Death to the Germans' was he catchphrase of 45/46. thousands were murdered. 17 million ethnic germans were displaced and driven west or murdered.
their houses were taken over fully furnished.

they lived for centuried in what is now the Czech Republic. kafka the jew was one of them . his mother tongue was german , yet every trace of the centuries old germanic culture in Prague was erased.

FiSe

A shameful part of Czech history for sure. But I miss your point a bit here.

The 'problem' of the Germans in Sudetenland could be traced back to the 1918 when some of the pure, or with majority of German towns and villages refused to join Czechoslovakian state. Army was called and, in some cases, some heavy fighting went on.
Not surprisingly, not even 20 years later and new opportunity to get rid of the Czechoslovakian state arise. Some fighting, killing and sabotage actions have taken place under the slogan of 'Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer'.
What I'm trying to say that it's more complex than it seems, nevertheless there's no excuse for the anti-German madness of the masses which followed after the war.

You can't erase Germanic influence and you can't erase traces of Habsburg empire in the look of Czech towns and cities.
You can't erase 'Czech' feel of Vienna and you'll get the impression of being in Austria while hanging around lago di Garda in Italy. You've got similar architecture, food, drinks, similar history. The same way like you can't erase traces of British Empire in Ireland. Impossible.
A lot of 'native' Czech surnames are of German or Austrian origin and a lot of those displaced Germans have pure Czech surnames.

There's a lot of people in CZ whose grandfather fought in the WH uniform and families who take 'KIA money' off the German government... anyway...

Those 17 milions displaced German nationals is overall number, CZ, Poland, Hungary, etc, I believe?

SlabMurphy

FiSe wrote: »

What I'm trying to say that it's more complex than it seems, nevertheless there's no excuse for the anti-German madness of the masses which followed after the war.

That's easy for you to say from the comfort of tapping on a PC 65 years later. As far as I'm concerned the Germans and collabotators got all they deserved, reap as they sow.

( Been to Prague, fantastic city. Prague castle is wellworth a visit as their is an interesting museum in their mostly relating to medieval armour etc )

SlabMurphy

FiSe wrote: »

It's not as rosy as it seems...

What is missing from the English translation is, that this film went through examination in the Czech Military History Museum and the results are that this particular killing was done by the Red Army troops.

Apparently those unfortunate people are shot with the types of bullets used either with a pistol or the PPS 'Spagin' MG.

The truck, riding over the dead bodies, have AA gun in tow and the lorry itself is, as someone could recognize already, Studebaker, which was supplied to the Sov. Union under the Lend Lease Act and used by RA in mass numbers.

There is series of newly published photographs related to this incident, which shows funeral and graves of two RA soldiers killed just before this massacre. Apparently there was a sniper operating in that part of the city days after the end of the war. I think the date was 10th of May 1945. *)

The title on the U-toobe video says something about Sudetendeutsche, which isn't the case as this crime happened in Prague.

Nevertheless, no excuses and it only shows that there wasn't really too much of difference between Nazis and Commies.
Oh, and the Revolutionary Guards . . . heroes 5 past 12, criminal mob.

*) 9 pictures on this page, the group on the first 3 photographs is different group than the group which was murdered latter. Unfo can't find English translation: http://www.vhu.cz/en/novinky/192

Recently I was having a chat with a Romainian bloke I know. I pointed out how almost every person I had spoke to from Poland, Czechs, Latvians etc all stated that Stalin and the Red army were worse than the Nazi's. He said the Red army pillaged Romania of gold, art etc were bullying drunkards etc And of course the Stalinist regieme that was then enforced on them with disastourous repression and econoimc stagnation for decades.

( Some, very surprisingly to me, even said that in some ways the Germans were benign in certain ways eg the Czechs were building most of their tanks and getting paid ok for it. I suppose if you weren't Jewish or outspoken in your political views that would certainly not have been the case. Glad I wasn't around to test it )

FiSe

SlabMurphy wrote: »

That's easy for you to say from the comfort of tapping on a PC 65 years later. As far as I'm concerned the Germans and collabotators got all they deserved, reap as they sow.

( Been to Prague, fantastic city. Prague castle is wellworth a visit as their is an interesting museum in their mostly relating to medieval armour etc )

Maybe, but here is the thing:
Most Jewish population of Czechoslovakia stated their nationality as being...German.
They've got no mercy and off they went too.
Some of the Germans, living on the Czechoslovakian soil for generations were more Czech than Czechs themselves, from the other hand, some areas within the Czech Republic were declared as a part of German Reich and people living there proclaimed as being German.

I suppose, what I see as CZ national failure is, that the Czech nation was, in general, quiet for 9 years working their arse off for the well being and prosperity of the Reich /well, I'd do the same/ and then, when everything was clear, days after German surendered, when the RA was in the streets, suddenly, up till then silent mob rised and killed a 'few nazis' to prove that they've won the war.
But it wasn't only Czechs

Fuinseog

FiSe wrote: »

Maybe, but here is the thing:
Most Jewish population of Czechoslovakia stated their nationality as being...German.
They've got no mercy and off they went too.
Some of the Germans, living on the Czechoslovakian soil for generations were more Czech than Czechs themselves, from the other hand, some areas within the Czech Republic were declared as a part of German Reich and people living there proclaimed as being German.

I suppose, what I see as CZ national failure is, that the Czech nation was, in general, quiet for 9 years working their arse off for the well being and prosperity of the Reich /well, I'd do the same/ and then, when everything was clear, days after German surendered, when the RA was in the streets, suddenly, up till then silent mob rised and killed a 'few nazis' to prove that they've won the war.
But it wasn't only Czechs

the Germans did a lot for the Czech workers, which frustarted the Brits. Heydrich introduced a health care system for all the workers and those who played ball were treated well.

the Germans were basically forbidden to discuss what happened in 1945 and until recently only the far right would address it. it was onlz realaz when the former SS man Gunther Grass started discussing it, that it became a matter of debate.
while the Jews are alwazs looking for the restoration of tehir propertz the german s never applied the same amount of pressure.
forgiven but not forgotten.

SlabMurphy

FiSe wrote: »

Maybe, but here is the thing:
Most Jewish population of Czechoslovakia stated their nationality as being...German.
They've got no mercy and off they went too.
Some of the Germans, living on the Czechoslovakian soil for generations were more Czech than Czechs themselves, from the other hand, some areas within the Czech Republic were declared as a part of German Reich and people living there proclaimed as being German.

The vast, vast majority of Germans living on Czech soil enthusiastically collaborated totally with the occupying forces, as I said, reap as they sow. In fact that they had "lived on the Czechoslovakian soil for generations" makes it even worse for me.

I suppose, what I see as CZ national failure is, that the Czech nation was, in general, quiet for 9 years working their arse off for the well being and prosperity of the Reich /well, I'd do the same/ and then, when everything was clear, days after German surendered, when the RA was in the streets, suddenly, up till then silent mob rised and killed a 'few nazis' to prove that they've won the war.
But it wasn't only Czechs

Yes, it wasn't only the Czechs. For example the WW2 propaganda movies protray the average French citizen as patriotically hiding resistance members, assisting downed Allied air men and doing everything possible to thwart the Nazi's - when the reality was that the vast majority of people just got on with life though secretly resenting the occupiers and only a minority actually did anything.

Victor

SlabMurphy wrote: »

Recently I was having a chat with a Romainian bloke I know. I pointed out how almost every person I had spoke to from Poland, Czechs, Latvians etc all stated that Stalin and the Red army were worse than the Nazi's. He said the Red army pillaged Romania of gold, art etc were bullying drunkards etc And of course the Stalinist regieme that was then enforced on them with disastourous repression and econoimc stagnation for decades.

I think one needs to compare 3-12 years of repression against 45 years of repression and the fact that many countries were allied to Germany, not the USSR and their armies (and foreign SS units) took part in the invasion of the USSR.

Poland bemoans the invasion by Germany but were willing participants in the dismembering of Czechoslovakia. The USSR bemoans the invasion by Germany but were willing participants in the dismembering of Poland.

However, one needs to separate the behaviour of governments from their peoples. Most people just want a roof over their head and food on their table.

Morlar

SlabMurphy wrote: »

The vast, vast majority of Germans living on Czech soil enthusiastically collaborated totally with the occupying forces, as I said, reap as they sow.

Does the same rule apply to jews in Poland who welcomed the communists in with open arms ? 'Enthusiastically collaborated' totally with them ? Does the 'You reap what you sow' rule apply there too ?

Fuinseog

thousands of Free Poles fought for an ideal, a free Poland, well free of the Nazis but further enslavement by the russians, an ideal which their british friends were not willing to grant

ejmaztec

The ethnic Germans in the Sudetenland were victimised by the nationalist population post WW1, because they were seen as left-overs from the Austro-Hungarian empire. When the empire was taken apart after WW1, they didn't want to be part of the new Czechoslovak state, and tried to negotiate their way out of it. They weren't allowed to take part in any negotiations, and their wishes were ignored.

After going through 20 years of frustration, they couldn't really be blamed for siding with the Nazis, because it was the only chance that they were going to get to escape the rule of people who saw them as second-class citizens.

It wasn't as if the Sudeten Germans were all fully-fledged jack-boot wearing members of the SS, or even members of the Nazi party. They were ordinary people trying to get better representation. There was an extreme element of course, but there always is.

Unfortunately, it didn't get off to a good start, the first thing that took place after the Sudetenland was handed over, being the mass eviction of "ethnic" Czechs from the area.

A combination of the evictions, Lidice, and anything else that was done to the Czechs, exploded into barbarism in 1945, when it was payback time, for the guilty as well as the innocent.

Places like Terezin had new inmates, this time ethnic Germans.

Ping Chow Chi

Fuinseog wrote: »

thousands of Free Poles fought for an ideal, a free Poland, well free of the Nazis but further enslavement by the russians, an ideal which their british friends were not willing to grant

I do not think that Britian where in a position to enforce Russia to leave Poland, do you?

June_2010

Morlar wrote: »

Does the same rule apply to jews in Poland who welcomed the communists in with open arms ? 'Enthusiastically collaborated' totally with them ? Does the 'You reap what you sow' rule apply there too ?

It's not cut and dried as you say. Oscar Schindler was a Sudeten German considered by the Czechs to be a war criminal because he worked for the Abwehr against Czechoslovakia. Then he had it hard in post-war west Germany because he helped the Jews in Poland. He's buried in Jerusalem.