Plus handicaps.

Mr. Larson · 11-05-2010 9:21pm #1

So there's a random person playing off +2. His exact handicap is -1.9 or something similar. How does Stableford work? Par is 72 and he shoots 72 and gets 34 points. Does he need to birdie index 18 & 17 to get 2 points each for both holes? He Pars Index 17 & 18 and only gets a point each for both holes?

I'm pretty sure that's what happens but it sounds insane. Why doesn't this person turn pro, if he is under 30? I know Shane Lowry was + 5 or something so I guess it's to do with age? Something like if you get to 2 at age 14 you've a shot at pro. But if you're + 3 at 29 - it's too late for you pal.

Is that about right?

dvemail · 11-05-2010 9:44pm

Ya if there off +1 then on index 18 hole they must birdie it to get 2pts.

Another question is if there of say +4 for arguements sake and they are playing in a competition where it is 3/4 of your handicap.
Is your new handicap going to be +5 or +3??

Mr. Larson · 11-05-2010 9:50pm

That's an interesting one.

Fourballs are interesting. It's usually 3/4 handicaps so on the face of it, the low guy loses less (a 5 h/cap might lose 1 and go to a 4) but an 18 might lose 4 and go to 14, yet, the low lads don't always benefit as much s you might expect. I guess that means the system, although on the face of it seems to favour the low men, is pretty fair.

Russman · 11-05-2010 9:54pm

Yep, its a source of constant debate between the "high" handicappers and the "low" handicappers.
The low men will focus on the percentage loss while the high guys talk about number of shots lost and neither group is for turning ! Its probably fair enough because, lets face it, its unusual for your score to count on every hole in a 4 ball and you generally get to discard your bad holes in favour of your partners score, whereas your handicap is in theory for 18 holes singles where everything counts, good and bad.

Mr. Larson · 11-05-2010 10:00pm

I'm a 12 handicap

and have played with and against lads off 3/4/5/6 and 13/14/15/16 and 23/24/25/26 and I can honestly say (without hard data) that the 3/4 system is about the fairest system there is. So anyone who claims otherwise, is (I would suggest) misguided.

Sandwlch · 12-05-2010 9:32pm

dvemail wrote: »

Another question is if there of say +4 for arguements sake and they are playing in a competition where it is 3/4 of your handicap.
Is your new handicap going to be +5 or +3??

Anyone know the answer to this bit? I guess you should add the 1/4 rather than reducing by 1/4. So the plus 4 man in a 3/4 handicap competition plays off +5 ?

PhilipMarlowe · 12-05-2010 9:57pm

Don't think so. Not that it's something I'll ever need to know anyway but I think it's three quarters of +4 = +3
Also, the fractions are rounded differently for plus golfers so that a +1.5 golfer plays off +1 and not +2 as you might expect.

DonkeyPokerTour · 12-05-2010 10:26pm

Licksy wrote: »

Don't think so. Not that it's something I'll ever need to know anyway but I think it's three quarters of +4 = +3
Also, the fractions are rounded differently for plus golfers so that a +1.5 golfer plays off +1 and not +2 as you might expect.

I've no idea on this myself but I'd be inclined to disagree with you, i'd say a +4 in a fourball would go to +5. Think about it, a fourball is an "easier" format because you have your parthner to help you, so why should it be doubly easier by you gaining more shots. Your calculation Licksy would be like having a 16handicaper in singles get 20shots in a 4 ball, it doesn't make sense, you know what I mean? If it did go from +4 to +3 then there'd be rakes of lads queing up to play with the + handicapers!

Didn't know about the fractions thing, does 1.6 become 2 or are you not 2 until you get to 2.0?

Regards
Ian

Edit to add: Just spotted this site, and it would appear to back licksy up http://www.edenmens.co.uk/Page8.htm not the foggiest how good or bad the site is, but it says a +4 goes to +3

dvemail · 12-05-2010 11:34pm

Its definetly a strange one alright, i felt that it would be 3/4 of +4, would have you at a +5 handicap to make it harder in the fourball situation to score.
Dont know how reliable that website is but probably more so than myself. It is unusual though that you would be given an easier chance to score, like said above 16 handicapper playing off a 20 handicap in comp is never going to happen, so dont see why it should do for plus handicappers.

BoardsRanger · 13-05-2010 7:04am

I play with a +2 golfer in a good few fourball comps. I play off 14. He definately gains shots (so beneficial for him) but the exact number im unsure. Will find out later on and post up.

fullstop · 13-05-2010 9:45am

DonkeyPokerTour wrote: »

Didn't know about the fractions thing, does 1.6 become 2 or are you not 2 until you get to 2.0?

+1.6 becomes +2.

SuprSi · 13-05-2010 12:36pm

Gorfield is the best person to answer this as I believe he's off +3?

GreeBo · 13-05-2010 3:16pm

fullstop wrote: »

+1.6 becomes +2.

You sure?
Again, thats the same as a 1.4 going to 2. Your are (sorta) rounding down if you go from 1.6 to 2.

<edit> From CONGU
Note: An Exact Handicap of +0.5 is rounded up to a Playing Handicap of scratch (0) and not +1. Likewise, an Exact Handicap of +3.5 is rounded up to a Playing Handicap of +3.

fullstop · 13-05-2010 3:24pm

GreeBo wrote: »

You sure?
Again, thats the same as a 1.4 going to 2. Your are (sorta) rounding down if you go from 1.6 to 2.

<edit> From CONGU
Note: An Exact Handicap of +0.5 is rounded up to a Playing Handicap of scratch (0) and not +1. Likewise, an Exact Handicap of +3.5 is rounded up to a Playing Handicap of +3.

That's what I'm saying. You have to get to +0.6 before you become +1, +1.6 before you become +2 etc. You are not rounding down because if you are off +1.6 and you get cut .1, you go to +1.7 and not +1.5.

GreeBo · 13-05-2010 3:27pm

fullstop wrote: »

That's what I'm saying. You have to get to +0.6 before you become +1, +1.6 before you become +2 etc.

but Congu is saying the opposite...

You are saying that +1.6 plays off +2 but Congu is saying it plays off +1.

X.5 is the same as X.6, as far as I am aware?

fullstop · 13-05-2010 3:42pm

GreeBo wrote: »

but Congu is saying the opposite...

You are saying that +1.6 plays off +2 but Congu is saying it plays off +1.

X.5 is the same as X.6, as far as I am aware?

Can you point out where is says this because I can't see it

It gives +0.5 as an example. If you were playing off 0.5, your handicap would be 1. The reason the example of +0.5 is given is because WRT plus handicaps, getting cut a shot requires you to get to +X.6, and not 0.4 as is the case with regular handicaps.

mag · 13-05-2010 3:53pm

+1.6 is rounded to +2
+1.5 is rounded to +1

dvemail · 13-05-2010 5:05pm

This is quite confusing.
Cant really understand why they dont use the same rules for + handicaps and normal handicappers. There must be a logical reason for it all im sure. :rolleyes:

fullstop · 13-05-2010 5:16pm

mag wrote: »

+1.6 is rounded to +2
+1.5 is rounded to +1

Which is what I was saying.

GreeBo · 13-05-2010 5:17pm

dvemail wrote: »

This is quite confusing.
Cant really understand why they dont use the same rules for + handicaps and normal handicappers. There must be a logical reason for it all im sure. :rolleyes:

So for + handicaps its 0.6 and higher for - handicaps its 0.5 and higher.

PhilipMarlowe · 13-05-2010 5:51pm

GreeBo wrote: »

So for + handicaps its 0.6 and higher for - handicaps its 0.5 and higher.

No, if you want to be pedantic, it's +0.6 and lower because a plus handicap is actually a negative handicap, capiche?

GreeBo · 13-05-2010 5:56pm

Licksy wrote: »

No, if you want to be pedantic, it's +0.6 and lower because a plus handicap is actually a negative handicap, capiche?

Well its a higher number. A plus handicap is only (sorta) negative for stableford, its positive for strokes :P

BoardsRanger · 13-05-2010 7:02pm

BoardsRanger wrote: »

I play with a +2 golfer in a good few fourball comps. I play off 14. He definately gains shots (so beneficial for him) but the exact number im unsure. Will find out later on and post up.

So regarding the 3/4 rule in the case above- he gains one shot( so effectively goes to +1) but things are evened out because i loose a couple of shots. Seems fair when you think about it.

dvemail · 13-05-2010 7:32pm

BoardsRanger wrote: »

So regarding the 3/4 rule in the case above- he gains one shot( so effectively goes to +1) but things are evened out because i loose a couple of shots. Seems fair when you think about it.

It evens out your fourball, but it also puts you at an advantage over another team where neither player has a plus handicap.
Then on another level if both the players on the team where off + figures and both gained a shot. (eg: +4 going back to a +3 for the comp).
This fourball has what could be said a huge advantage over the rest of the other teams.

BoardsRanger · 13-05-2010 9:04pm

Actually thats a good point. I can see how it might be unfair in certain circumstances. In our case though- it works out, because i normally play like a lemon!

fullstop · 13-05-2010 9:54pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Well its a higher number. A plus handicap is only (sorta) negative for stableford, its positive for strokes :P

No, what Licksy said stands. +0.6 is always lower than +0.5. If you are +0.5 and get cut 0.1, you go to +0.6, so it's lower.

I think all potential mods should have to take a test of their knowledge of the handicap system and the rules of golf from now on

GreeBo · 14-05-2010 1:51pm

fullstop wrote: »

No, what Licksy said stands. +0.6 is always lower than +0.5. If you are +0.5 and get cut 0.1, you go to +0.6, so it's lower.

I know its a lower handicap...but its still a higher number!

fullstop wrote: »

I think all potential mods should have to take a test of their knowledge of the handicap system and the rules of golf from now on

Only if all posters have to take a sanity test before they can post too;)

GreeBo · 14-05-2010 1:56pm

dvemail wrote: »

It evens out your fourball, but it also puts you at an advantage over another team where neither player has a plus handicap.
Then on another level if both the players on the team where off + figures and both gained a shot. (eg: +4 going back to a +3 for the comp).
This fourball has what could be said a huge advantage over the rest of the other teams.

FYI
See Q9 here for an explanation

dvemail · 14-05-2010 8:37pm

GreeBo wrote: »

FYI
See Q9 here for an explanation

Cheers, suppose its a fair enough thing to do alright.

G1032 · 15-05-2010 4:16pm

Jabberwocky wrote: »

Why doesn't this person turn pro, if he is under 30? I know Shane Lowry was + 5 or something so I guess it's to do with age? Something like if you get to 2 at age 14 you've a shot at pro. But if you're + 3 at 29 - it's too late for you pal.

Is that about right?

He doesn't turn pro because he probably isn't good enough. I played a Senior Cup match a couple of years ago against a guy off +2. He was in college in America and was a member of the college team. I asked was he going to turn pro? He said he'd love to and it was his plan to do so in the future but was way too far away from the standard required then. He reckoned he wasn't even in the same league as a lot of the college golfers, who in turn weren't in the same league as the tour pros.
A lot of it has to do with the 6 inches between the ears too I'd say. Talent alone isn't enough.

stumpypeeps · 15-05-2010 4:26pm

ronaldochokes wrote: »

A lot of it has to do with the 6 inches between the ears too I'd say. Talent alone isn't enough.

6 Inches between my ears is all I've got unfortunately.

GreeBo · 17-05-2010 4:28pm

stumpypeeps wrote: »

6 Inches between my ears is all I've got unfortunately.

I cat get it up to 9 if I go around the long way

All you have to do is look at the Natiowide tour etc, they can all hit the ball and chip and putt as well as the top 100 on the main tour...99% of them just cant do it when it counts.

Plus handicaps.

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