Driving test to tow a caravan?

mydogjack

Hi, I recently bought my first caravan. It's a Robin 400/5. I think it is 20 yrs. old approx. It weighs 700kg. gross(almost sure of this). Somebody told me I need to pass a driving test for this. Is this true? I have a full irish licence (B only) and my car is a Honda civic 1.4 saloon. Total weight 1.4ton (again almost positively sure) . Please can somebodt tell me if I am covered.

mydogjack

I contacted the gardai, motor tax office and insurance office. All a little confused to exact law. Basically will I get hassle from the gardai for combined gross weight of towing vehicle and trailer/caravan at 2,100kg? I hope someone here can help.

Betsy Og

Wouldnt worry about it, just make sure your insurance covers it and that the weight of the caravan does not exceed about 70% of the weight of the var.

Theoretically there is a test but I've never heard of one. Last time I renewed my licence I filled out the box saying I wanted the tow licence (I think in the good ol days that used to happen when you were getting your 2nd full licence - having been drivign 10 years) but the lady refused me citing a test for same.

Guards never look at it. I'll look through some papers I printed off a year ago (was in same position as you), I think there was some other "concession" on the licensing side which put my mind at rest.

Del2005

Betsy Og wrote: »

Wouldnt worry about it, just make sure your insurance covers it and that the weight of the caravan does not exceed about 70% of the weight of the var.

Wouldn't worry about it:eek: Your insurance will say something along the lines of have or held a licence to drive the vehicle. If the trailer is over 750kg DGVW then you'll need an EB licence. Your insurance may pay out any 3rd party claims but they are perfectly entitled to recoup the costs back from you.

Theoretically there is a test but I've never heard of one. Last time I renewed my licence I filled out the box saying I wanted the tow licence (I think in the good ol days that used to happen when you were getting your 2nd full licence - having been drivign 10 years) but the lady refused me citing a test for same.

There is an EB test and any of the test centres that do Artic's can do the test. If you check on the web it gives the details of the vehicle and trailer to be used for the test.

Guards never look at it. I'll look through some papers I printed off a year ago (was in same position as you), I think there was some other "concession" on the licensing side which put my mind at rest.

The Gardaí never look at it till something goes wrong. I remember hearing about a "concession" also for towing caravans, but I think that may have been UK licence holders only. Our licences don't mention anything about caravans.

B
Vehicles with seats for up to 8 passengers and a maximum weight of 3,500kg (includes pulling a trailer where the maximum weight of the trailer when fully loaded is 750kg or less)

17 year


EB
Combinations of vehicles with drawing vehicle in category B and where the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer is greater than 750kg.

17 years

http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Licensed-Drivers/Safe-Driving/About-your-license/Driving-license-categories/

Betsy Og

Del2005 wrote: »

Wouldn't worry about it:eek: Your insurance will say something along the lines of have or held a licence to drive the vehicle. If the trailer is over 750kg DGVW then you'll need an EB licence.



Well I specifically confirmed with my insurance company at the time and was told I was covered. I'm fairly sure I have it in writing as well so I'll try to dig that out. Might enquire re this test - do they take your car licence off you if you driver with your elbow out the window

Re the guards, I'd love to hear the stats on convinctions for that offence, or the stats for people taking that test. Once you are certain you're insured I genuinely dont think you have anything to fear.

Del2005

Betsy Og wrote: »

Well I specifically confirmed with my insurance company at the time and was told I was covered. I'm fairly sure I have it in writing as well so I'll try to dig that out.

Once you have something in writing from your insurance company which clearly states you are insured towing a trailer/caravan over 750kg DGVW on a B licence then you're OK. But I'd make sure to carry it at all times when towing.

Might enquire re this test - do they take your car licence off you if you driver with your elbow out the window

Re the guards, I'd love to hear the stats on convinctions for that offence, or the stats for people taking that test. Once you are certain you're insured I genuinely dont think you have anything to fear.

They also never did anyone for driving alone on provisional licences/larners permits till recently.

The issue is that if you get stopped on the road they may well let you away. But if s**t happens you can be damn sure that everything will be checked and if you are driving out side the terms of you licence you could get the book thrown at you.

mydogjack

:)Folks thanks for the advice. Been scouring the net for info, so bloody hard to find a definate law on it. Basically I reckon the 'under 3,500kg' rule applies and I should be ok. If anybody begs to differ, please inform me. Now I'm hyped and ready for my first caravan holiday since I was a youngster.

Del2005

mydogjack wrote: »

:)Folks thanks for the advice. Been scouring the net for info, so bloody hard to find a definate law on it. Basically I reckon the 'under 3,500kg' rule applies and I should be ok. If anybody begs to differ, please inform me. Now I'm hyped and ready for my first caravan holiday since I was a youngster.

Del2005 wrote: »

B
Vehicles with seats for up to 8 passengers and a maximum weight of 3,500kg (includes pulling a trailer where the maximum weight of the trailer when fully loaded is 750kg or less)

EB
Combinations of vehicles with drawing vehicle in category B and where the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer is greater than 750kg.

http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Licensed-Drivers/Safe-Driving/About-your-license/Driving-license-categories/

It seems that they've changed the wording on their websites since I last checked. There is no mention now of the combined weight not exceeding 3500kg, which is the "concession" you where working off. It's plain as day now and it's similar on Citizens Information and the ROTR

I'd be much more worried about towing a caravan, or any heavy trailer, without an EB.

paddyp

Has it got brakes because they've started to pull the trailers and cattle trailers around here that have no brakes.

750kg is a serious tow for a 1.4 petrol.

I have a 3.5 ton lwb van and can tell you 3/4 ton in a trailer can give you a serious shunt on a hill. You need brakes or expect to miss the stop signs.

You'll have to be very careful to balance the weight in the caravan so as not to exceed the nose weight (s value) for your car and feck the suspension.

The nose weight for your car is only 50kg (for witter check with manufacturer) so you'll be able to lift the caravan onto the hitch (disclaimer: this is a two person lift, bend the knees and all that :-p)

I helped a guy during the summer who had burst his suspension by putting the awning and things in the front of the caravan. He had about 200kg on the hitch.

reelkidmusic

Hi,

This topic has been the cause of some confusion and worry for me as a caravanner. I have just read this on http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/your-licence-and-vehicle/driving-licences-and-vehicle-categories/provisional-driving-licence.html#trailers

Cars and trailers

If you hold a Full category B licence, you may tow a trailer only if:

the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer is 750kg or less, or
the unladen (empty) weight of your towing vehicle is at least the same as the trailer's design gross vehicle weight, and the combined design gross vehicle weight of the vehicle and trailer is no more than 3,500kg.
When using a car to tow a heavier trailer, you must hold a category EB licence.

My understanding of this is that if the car is heavier (unladen) than the trailer, then you are covered to tow with your B licence.

mydogjack

paddyp wrote: »

Has it got brakes because they've started to pull the trailers and cattle trailers around here that have no brakes.

750kg is a serious tow for a 1.4 petrol.

I have a 3.5 ton lwb van and can tell you 3/4 ton in a trailer can give you a serious shunt on a hill. You need brakes or expect to miss the stop signs.

You'll have to be very careful to balance the weight in the caravan so as not to exceed the nose weight (s value) for your car and feck the suspension.

The nose weight for your car is only 50kg (for witter check with manufacturer) so you'll be able to lift the caravan onto the hitch (disclaimer: this is a two person lift, bend the knees and all that :-p)

I helped a guy during the summer who had burst his suspension by putting the awning and things in the front of the caravan. He had about 200kg on the hitch.

Hi paddyp thanks for the advice, the wife is getting a jeep this week so should be ok from now on. I think the car did pretty well towing it home when I bought it though. As you say, I did have to slow down well in advance of stop signs. Anybody know any good sites to get car's nose weight, towing weights etc.?

mydogjack

reelkidmusic wrote: »

Hi,

This topic has been the cause of some confusion and worry for me as a caravanner. I have just read this on http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/your-licence-and-vehicle/driving-licences-and-vehicle-categories/provisional-driving-licence.html#trailers

Cars and trailers

If you hold a Full category B licence, you may tow a trailer only if:

the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer is 750kg or less, or
the unladen (empty) weight of your towing vehicle is at least the same as the trailer's design gross vehicle weight, and the combined design gross vehicle weight of the vehicle and trailer is no more than 3,500kg.
When using a car to tow a heavier trailer, you must hold a category EB licence.

My understanding of this is that if the car is heavier (unladen) than the trailer, then you are covered to tow with your B licence.

Hi reelkidmusic, I'm with you on the rules of the road. I even rang the local garda station(they didnt seem too bothered and were a little unsure too). I reckon the rules of the road are pretty clear in the 3,500kg total weight.

mydogjack

Cars and trailers

If you hold a Full category B licence, you may tow a trailer only if:

• the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer is 750kg or less, or
• the unladen (empty) weight of your towing vehicle is at least the same as the trailer's design gross vehicle weight, and the combined design gross vehicle weight of the vehicle and trailer is no more than 3,500kg.

When using a car to tow a heavier trailer, you must hold a category EB licence.

The above is taken from the rotr website and is still stating 'combined weight'. I reckon the traffic cops are the the people to say for definate.

Del2005

reelkidmusic wrote: »

Hi,

This topic has been the cause of some confusion and worry for me as a caravanner. I have just read this on http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/your-licence-and-vehicle/driving-licences-and-vehicle-categories/provisional-driving-licence.html#trailers

Cars and trailers

If you hold a Full category B licence, you may tow a trailer only if:

the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer is 750kg or less, or
the unladen (empty) weight of your towing vehicle is at least the same as the trailer's design gross vehicle weight, and the combined design gross vehicle weight of the vehicle and trailer is no more than 3,500kg.
When using a car to tow a heavier trailer, you must hold a category EB licence.

My understanding of this is that if the car is heavier (unladen) than the trailer, then you are covered to tow with your B licence.

mydogjack wrote: »

Hi reelkidmusic, I'm with you on the rules of the road. I even rang the local garda station(they didnt seem too bothered and were a little unsure too). I reckon the rules of the road are pretty clear in the 3,500kg total weight.

mydogjack wrote: »

Cars and trailers

If you hold a Full category B licence, you may tow a trailer only if:

• the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer is 750kg or less, or
• the unladen (empty) weight of your towing vehicle is at least the same as the trailer's design gross vehicle weight, and the combined design gross vehicle weight of the vehicle and trailer is no more than 3,500kg.

When using a car to tow a heavier trailer, you must hold a category EB licence.

The above is taken from the rotr website and is still stating 'combined weight'. I reckon the traffic cops are the the people to say for definate.

You do know that the rules of the road are only an interpretation of the law and not the actual law.

It seems strange to me that on 2 parts of the ROTR site they are giving different information but the RSA site, which is the official driving licence site, clearly states that max now is 750kg on a B and it has to EB for anything heavier.

No offence to our Gardaí, they don't know all the laws, but the only people who can actually tell you the correct answer are the RSA as they actually issue the licences. And as Mydogjack said "(they didnt seem too bothered and were a little unsure too)" they don't care till something bad happens and then the people who know the answers will be asking you some very tough questions, never mind the possibility that your insurance could be voided*.



* Your insurnace still pays out 3rd party claims, but you are liable for any payouts made and that's not insurance to me.

mydogjack

Ok, so the r.s.a is the way to go on this one. Good to know that. Are the gardai strict on this rule? The caravan I have weighs 700kg so hopefully I should still be ok.

paddyp

mydogjack wrote: »

Hi paddyp thanks for the advice, the wife is getting a jeep this week so should be ok from now on. I think the car did pretty well towing it home when I bought it though. As you say, I did have to slow down well in advance of stop signs. Anybody know any good sites to get car's nose weight, towing weights etc.?

You'll probably be grand so, 1.4 petrol may be fine power wise but generally the clutch and brakes won't be up to the effort.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW1ACzfUXjo

To get nose weight etc info, there will be an id plate on the towbar and you can check with the manucfacturers website. Most are bosal or witter

Make sure to get some form of caravan stabiliser for towing too if one didn't come with it.

mydogjack

paddyp wrote: »

You'll probably be grand so, 1.4 petrol may be fine power wise but generally the clutch and brakes won't be up to the effort.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW1ACzfUXjo

HOLY SMOKE, that's a scary vid. Tanks for all the advice. I'll check out the nose weights etc.

Del2005

mydogjack wrote: »

Ok, so the r.s.a is the way to go on this one. Good to know that. Are the gardai strict on this rule? The caravan I have weighs 700kg so hopefully I should still be ok.

The Gardaí don't know or care till something happens, then they'll start looking into your licence etc, it's the insurance companies I'd be more worried about. It's very easy for them to dismiss a claim if you are driving outside the terms of your licence.


There should be a plate somewhere on the caravan giving you the DGVW, but if it weights 700kg now I'd be amazed if it's less the 750kg DGVW.

TigerTim

If you go to a website called whattowcar.com & click on "Compare your outfit", you can select your car & caraven combo & see if its suitable. Found this site very valuable when moving from camper to caravan

T.

mlarki1x

Hi just wondered it a opel zafira 1.6 would be strong enough to tow acaravan, have not bought caravan yet just looking into it. Caravan I hope willbe a small enough one max length 16ft..all do hoping to get a 14 foot one. This all new to me so any help much appreciated. tks

db

As TigerTim says in the post before yours check on whattowcar.com. Find a caravan that approximately matches what you are looking for and try and match that to your car. That will tell you what your car is capable of.

Betsy Og

I note with amusement my blasé attitude on this 4 years ago! It has grown on the agenda and I did the test last year and got it.

I've heard of farmers being stopped at marts. Overall view is that safer to have the EB in the event of a crash in case insurance co gets windy. There was some development recently re older licences and getting the EB automatically, check the forum on ICCC.ie (open to non members, some good info there).

moodrater

Betsy Og wrote: »

I note with amusement my blasé attitude on this 4 years ago! It has grown on the agenda and I did the test last year and got it.

I've heard of farmers being stopped at marts. Overall view is that safer to have the EB in the event of a crash in case insurance co gets windy. There was some development recently re older licences and getting the EB automatically, check the forum on ICCC.ie (open to non members, some good info there).

http://www.rsa.ie/Utility/News/2013/Car-and-Trailer-Driving-Licence-Changes/

Announced September/October 2013, closing date 8th November 2013. They really didn't want people to take it up.

The Glass Key

Just got out my licence and checked (driving 30+ years) and I have the E+B on it. I can vaguely remember the last time I renewed my licence (98) that the girl on the desk said I didn't have one of the categories and that she could add it for me and I agreed.

Green farmer

For 700 kg gross your B licence is fine. The towing capacity of the car should be stamped on drivers door or owners manual . Its only driving licences granted before 1992 that have the EB attached to them, also watch out as I'm fairly sure that the speed limit when towing is 80 km per hour, after that a phone call to your insurance company would do no harm, better safe then sorry.

niloc1951

Please, please, please read this in relation to a category B licence, and pay special attention to the OR word

The vehicle may tow a trailer (a) where the MAM of the trailer is not greater than 750 kg or (b) where the MAM of the trailer exceeds 750kg the combined MAM of the towing vehicle and the trailer is not greater than 3,500 kg.

So........... an average caravan with a MAM of say 1,400kg is perfect legal behind an average family car with a MAM of say 1700kg as the combined weight is only 3,100kg

The whole issue has been confused by the farmers who do require an EB licence because of the need to tow a two or three axle cow box with two hefty cattle in it behind something like a Landcruiser or Pajero, such a combination would certainly tip the scales well beyond 3,500kg.

MAM is also known as DGVW

BTW the above rule also means that a 3,500kg MAM or DGVW motorhome (or other vehicle) can legally tow a trailer which does not exceed 750kg MAM, this would give a combined weight of 4,250kg, very useful to avoid overloading a 3,500kg motorhome if heading to a foreign land where overloading could land a person in trouble with the local police.

See HERE for the source document.