Unemployed Teachers + Increasing Human Capital

johnhargrove

I'm just looking to start a discussion on an idea that popped into my mind,
now the idea wouldn't win 'Your Country Your Call' but I just want to see the general reaction to it.

As has been publicized, many recently qualified teachers, both primary and secondary are struggling to find a job in a school.
(I'm NOT a teacher myself)

Many of these qualified teachers are drawing the dole, due to the mess we're in.
Now I believe a lot of these teachers would work for several hours a week, if they could, for free, just as long as they could keep their social welfare payments. This could be for 10hours a week. This would be done a voluntary basis.
The could utilise their skills, enhance them, and gain a good reference for when they apply for 'proper positions'

Unemployed teachers could employ their skills, educating young children, in particular those in working class areas, getting the kids' English and Math ability up to standard through after-school homework clubs.
Primary school buildings could be used and school principals could manage this.

The same could replicated for the unemployed with university degrees in French, Biology, Irish, Geography, Physics, Computer Science to teach secondary school students after school.

Also no matter what your opinion is on asylum-seekers, love em or loath em, its in everyone's best interest that they speak good English.

This could also be used in re-training those (mainly men) who left school after the Junior Cert to work in Construction, help them achieve a Leaving Cert now at a low cost.

This scheme would only be on a voluntary basis, I believe its win-win.
What we need to do as a nation is get together and add to our human capital.

I know there's flaws in the idea, but I was just wondering if anyone had any pointers?
Cheers,
John

Welease

Sadly your union backed brethern would most likely kill this idea...

the_syco

johnhargrove wrote: »

I know there's flaws in the idea, but I was just wondering if anyone had any pointers?

As said, the unions would go mad about it, and possibly strike.

pog it

Are you sure there are that many teachers who were qualified in Ireland looking for jobs?

bigbadbear

thousands! especially primary teachers

johnhargrove

pog it wrote: »

Are you sure there are that many teachers who were qualified in Ireland looking for jobs?

I'm not sure, but newly qualified teachers who can't find jobs do moan about it on radio the whole time.

Again, I'm not a teacher, I'm in an entirely different field. I'm not a member of a union either.

Apart from the difficulties with the unions - who will protest against the abuse of labour, to protect their own jobs, would a plan like this work?

majiktripp

Who would organize the volunteers time and placement? Would it be up to each individual teacher to figure out how to help out or would an organizational body be set up to arrange the time and place for the free tuition?
Where would they teach? In their home? In a college classroom?
There would be a bit of cost involved in the logistics of the whole idea and I'm not entirely sure where or who you would get funding from for it.

douglashyde

I think this is a very good Idea; and it is very much a win win for people involved.

There are kinks that would have to be worked out - but, this could work.

I agree that the unions would strike over this, but then again they will strike against anything that isn't in their interests.

Wouldn't it be brilliant to give all the money the Government pays the unions and set up a scheme like this.

gollem_1975

there is a word for this idea already.. its called volunteering.

how about getting the currently employed teachers do an extra 10 hours a week doing the useful work you mentioned in your post for free on top of the 22 they get paid for by the state ?

Welease

Aside from the unions.. have a look at the WPP thread.. I'd imagine the response from teachers would be similar..

johnhargrove

majiktripp wrote: »

Who would organize the volunteers time and placement? Would it be up to each individual teacher to figure out how to help out or would an organizational body be set up to arrange the time and place for the free tuition?
Where would they teach? In their home? In a college classroom?
There would be a bit of cost involved in the logistics of the whole idea and I'm not entirely sure where or who you would get funding from for it.

Where would they teach? - They could do it in the schools after normal hours. It would be optional for the kids.

In a perfect world the principals of a primary school could organise the volunteers time and placement, but of course the unions, (who have ruined this country) wouldn't allow it.

As regards 'funding' I don't think much funding would be necessary, the unemployed newly qualified teachers would be on the dole, they could keep their payments, while enhancing their skills, and acquiring a good reference.
It would be similar to the WPP. It ain't perfect, granted, but it help us in raising our educational standards, something that President Obama preaches about all the time in the US.

The option would be between disgruntled unions V better educated kids.

johnhargrove

gollem_1975 wrote: »

there is a word for this idea already.. its called volunteering.

how about getting the currently employed teachers do an extra 10 hours a week doing the useful work you mentioned in your post for free on top of the 22 they get paid for by the state ?

Get teachers to work extra hours???? Wishful thinking!!

gollem_1975

johnhargrove wrote: »

Get teachers to work extra hours???? Wishful thinking!!

why do you say that..

whats 10 hours free work ?

I mean if you think you will get trainee teachers on JSB to do it then why not get the non-permanent teachers to do it too also as part of their conditions of work.

perhaps you could make it part of the qualification process for teachers in the future..i.e. they have to do a years free work experience before they qualify.

Teaching is a vocation after all

johnhargrove

gollem_1975 wrote: »

why do you say that..

whats 10 hours free work ?

I mean if you think you will get trainee teachers on JSB to do it then why not get the non-permanent teachers to do it too also as part of their conditions of work.

perhaps you could make it part of the qualification process for teachers in the future..i.e. they have to do a years free work experience before they qualify.

Teaching is a vocation after all

Given the attitude of unions over the last few years, I believe permanent teachers would be highly resistant to working an extra 10hours a week. Honestly I wish the teachers could prove me wrong.

I believe many not all teachers on JSA would teach temporarily for no extra pay. I'm finishing college (not a teacher) and I intend to work on the WPP FAS scheme if I can't get another job, the way I see it is I will have some experience and a solid reference at the end of it.

The scheme that I propose would only be done during the current economic crisis. If things ever get back to the way they were during the late 1990s and 2000s then I don't think the scheme wouldn't be necessary.
(Will Ireland ever get back to normality??)

Oafley Jones

I agree it wouldn't get past the unions, also there's a whole industry built around grinds that wouldn't be too happy.

I'm curious, why have you limited this to teachers?

johnhargrove

I haven't limited it to teachers,
really it was just an idea that popped into my head.

If you've any suggestions let me know.

I thought of teachers as I've two good mates who have recently qualified as teachers and would love to work for at least a few hours a week, enhance their skills and get a good reference. They feel (rightly or wrongly) a year or more not working will be detrimental to their long-term career prospects.

I also feel that education is vital now and will always be. We have kids in China, South Korea, India who are more ambitious than our kids, they'll spend more hours a day reading books, solving equations, or learning a foreign language than young Colm and Ciara.

I agree that this system would have adverse consequences for the 'grinds industry', every plan, idea, scheme will have knock-on effects somewhere.
It's like playing multiple games of chess at once.
(Are grinds considered to be part of the 'black economy'?)
Its like public vs private schooling, tonnes of kids still go to fee-paying colleges such as Gonzaga, Blackrock (wan kers), Loreto etc, while perfectly good non-fee paying schools are available.

I believe the scheme would also be best targeted at children in working-class areas to give them more life-long skills

Mrs OBumble

johnhargrove wrote: »

Where would they teach? - They could do it in the schools after normal hours.

So the cleaners would have to start work later, possibly have to be paid more for unsociable hours. And while we're thinking about other people in the education sector - when do sports teams practice in this country? When are music lessons held? Etc

It would be optional for the kids.

Who's going to persuade them to stay in school for an extra hour or two each day? I haven't heard too many (except at senior secondary level perhaps) looking for MORE school.

In a perfect world the principals of a primary school could organise the volunteers time and placement,

Sure it's not like primary school principals have got a full time job to do already!

Actually, they'd need lots of spare time, because the proposal is about people who have just got out of teacher's college (or whatever it's called here): they're qualified, but not experienced so they need a lot more supervision than a teacher with a few years experience.

OP it's a nice thought, but just not going to fly. If you newly-qualified teacher mates want unpaid volunteer experience, maybe they could try volunteering for existing organisations that teach English to asylum seekers etc. Setting up a whole new tier of volunteer work just isn't going to happen. Sorry.

pog it

Really the best thing would be to bring in bench marking, examine the teachers, select the best, and let everyone else wait in line, from 1-10,000 of them. And make sure we don't give the teaching jobs to useless people who want a cushy lifestyle. There are great great teachers out there not working- Give them the jobs.

Specifically re. your proposal.. somebody brought up grinds- now if you are a teacher looking for work, this is how you can spend 10 hours a week getting teaching experience while on the dole. And it's all cash in hand!

johnhargrove

JustMary wrote: »

So the cleaners would have to start work later, possibly have to be paid more for unsociable hours. And while we're thinking about other people in the education sector - when do sports teams practice in this country? When are music lessons held? Etc


Who's going to persuade them to stay in school for an extra hour or two each day? I haven't heard too many (except at senior secondary level perhaps) looking for MORE school.




Sure it's not like primary school principals have got a full time job to do already!

Actually, they'd need lots of spare time, because the proposal is about people who have just got out of teacher's college (or whatever it's called here): they're qualified, but not experienced so they need a lot more supervision than a teacher with a few years experience.

OP it's a nice thought, but just not going to fly. If you newly-qualified teacher mates want unpaid volunteer experience, maybe they could try volunteering for existing organisations that teach English to asylum seekers etc. Setting up a whole new tier of volunteer work just isn't going to happen. Sorry.

Mary are you a teacher in a Union yourself?
Cleaners? Unsociable hours? Don't make me laugh.
Really I don't think cleaners during an economic recession can be picky with what hours they work.

Music, sports teams? - Only a minority of kids participate in these. I think English and Maths are more important.

School principals? - In the private sector your boss can give you new work, tasks, responsibilities tomorrow, and there is nothing you can do about. Private sector workers don't have the luxury of going on strike if a little extra work comes their way.
Not to mention school principals get 3months of holidays per year. (I'm sure that golf handicap goes down a notch)

Who is going to persuade kids to stay in school longer?
Maybe their parents will make them realise that if kids work harder at school, and there's a lot a capacity to do so (again refer to my Indian, Korea, China point), will decrease their chances of being unemployed in the future, allowing them to achieve their potential, which will in turn benefit the country as a whole.

New teachers need a lot more supervision?? Really?
Again this would be outside school hours, done on a voluntary basis. I can't see how it would be detrimental to the kids?

I'm not saying my plan is perfect, far from it, what annoys me is 'JustMary's rigid attitude, resistant to change, or to anything that challenges the 'status quo'

johnhargrove

Did I also mention, how as I believe only a minority of kids would actually participate in this scheme, the new teachers could give kids more one-on-one attention. That could fantastic for kids struggling in class, and prevent them falling by the wayside.

fitzer1982

I put an entry in your country your call, my idea was to set up a website forum/ community for the unemployed. The idea was to break the forum into sections similar to Boards, for example education and legal. On the education forum we would have teachers who are currently unemployed providing help and responses to threads created by students etc. I taught the advantage would be that people could do a few hours from home.

It could work in other areas such as legal or even a small to medium business sectio.

As for fundimng you could try get a combination of corporate partners and government grants maybe linked to the job seeker allowance.

warrenaldo

Good news for any teachers unemployed reading this - 1,000 new teaching posts confirmed

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0513/education.html

johnhargrove

fitze69 wrote: »

I put an entry in your country your call, my idea was to set up a website forum/ community for the unemployed. The idea was to break the forum into sections similar to Boards, for example education and legal. On the education forum we would have teachers who are currently unemployed providing help and responses to threads created by students etc. I taught the advantage would be that people could do a few hours from home.

It could work in other areas such as legal or even a small to medium business sectio.

As for fundimng you could try get a combination of corporate partners and government grants maybe linked to the job seeker allowance.

Good idea