Messed up by my schooldays

LegacyUser

I did my Leaving Cert in 1986. I got a couple of higher level passes and a couple of lower level passes, and one fail. Based on the fact that I did not do ONE single hour of study, even the night before exams, makes that quite an achievement, and begs the question what I would have achieved if I had studied hard and put my mind to it. The happiest day of my life was the day I walked out the school gate after the last exam. I remember looking back with an overwhelming sense of relief that I would NEVER see the inside of a school again.

The fact is that my schooldays were a horrendous experience. I was a pupil who 'fell through the floorboards,' and seemed to be ignored right through the years. I was painfully shy, and terrified of other pupils, even that group who were pleasant and friendly towards me. My mother had cossetted me, and I never saw another child till the day I started school at four years of age, which meant I was thrust into this group of people on my first day, with no idea how to relate to them, and no idea why I was entering this place. I never figured either of those things out right through those years.

The first guy who saw my weakness and picked on me, shortly after I had started school, shattered me, and broke my already weak spirit. From then on, I was terrified of being noticed and picked on, and saw a slight in every odd glance I got in the play yard. I kept my head down, and tried to hide myself, which must have looked strange to everyone else.

In class, when everyone else was learning the education that would see them through eventual life determining exams and careers, I was looking out the window, panicking about how I was going to get out the gate of school that evening without being picked on. The fear absorbed me to the total exclusion of everything else, even listening to my teachers. The thing is, I had a sharp mind and I could have done so exceptionally well had my mind been on the job.

The thing I find unforgiveable, is that through thirteen unlucky years of school, not one teacher, NOT ONE, in all that time, seemed to cop on that there was a quiet child with some preoccupation in the corner, who had a problem, and might have needed some attention to that problem in order to participate. I was routinely ignored.

All these years later, and I am paying the price. It took years to get over the shyness, and to start to participate in and understand the world around me. I have managed to develop personally. The only thing that has been a complete failure is my career. I never had a proper job, never had money, and now find myself struggling, and looking back with regret on all the wasted years. I can safely say I got NOTHING from my school years, it was a complete waste of my life.

I can't afford to study now, I am in debt, and need to work to pay it off. Besides which, I have a deep objection to the education system as it exists. I think the multitude of degrees out there are ten a penny and worthless, and the realisation of that seems to be getting debated now. I live in a world where EVERYONE has a degree, and you are nobody without one, regardless of the life experience and perspective you might have. It's a cheap world, and although I have found myself, and have great confidence in myself now, I still don't seem to fit in, and have no focus in my life, no goal, and I am still metaphorically looking out the window as the days go by.

dudara

Have you considered doing some form of adult education?

To be brutally honest, all I see in that post is "poor me". Yes, sh*t happens in our lives, and you may have had it worse than others, but the true measure of a person is how they deal with adversity. You seem to be making no effort to move yourself to a better place in life.

Kimia

Join the club man. I can't think of one person who has had an ideal childhood with no obstacles or challenges - it's part of life unfortunately. As Dudara rightly says - it's how you overcome these challenges that make you but it seems like you just want an excuse for your unhappiness right now.

Secret - happiness comes from within. Even if that teacher did look over and catch you staring out the window or whatever - she had another 30 kids to deal with too and all of them are the same - you would still be here complaining about something else because that appears to be the type of person you are and how you deal with challenges (blame).

I would change that about yourself and see how you get on. Treat obstacles and challenges in life as things to overcome and how to better yourself. You seem to be just accepting misery at the moment because of your childhood but let me tell you - everyone could do that. They just don't.

LegacyUser

dudara wrote: »

To be brutally honest, all I see in that post is "poor me". Yes, sh*t happens in our lives, and you may have had it worse than others, but the true measure of a person is how they deal with adversity. You seem to be making no effort to move yourself to a better place in life.

I spent thirty five years living a private hell of overwhelming fear of EVERYTHING in this world, people, animals, situations, school, work, everything. It was bred into me, I knew nothing else, until the last couple of years where I started to realise this and overcome it. I still have a way to go.

You have NO idea what it is like to live a life where every day is a living hell of irrational fear of everything around you.

Why the bloody hell are you even reading Personal Issues, if that is the calibre of your interest, care or response? There are people in this world who need a bit of encouragement, rational or not. Unfortunately, there are plenty like yourself who have nothing to offer only yet another put down.

dudara

Tom Brown wrote: »

Why the bloody hell are you even reading Personal Issues, if that is the calibre of your interest, care or response? There are people in this world who need a bit of encouragement, rational or not. Unfortunately, there are plenty like yourself who have nothing to offer only yet another put down.

I read Personal Issues because I moderate this forum.

My comments were not a put down - it is a pity if you choose to see them like that - view them as a challenge to you to change your mindset. Sometimes the best encouragement that can be offered is tough love.

Have you sought professional guidance on how to handle or manage your issues?

Kimia

Tom Brown wrote: »

You have NO idea what it is like to live a life where every day is a living hell of irrational fear of everything around you.

How do you know that? Maybe she has? It's none of your business really. You were the one to come on boards and ask for some non-biased advice.

To be honest you sound like a very very angry person and you really need to take some responsibility for your own feelings and emotions. You're the only person in control of yourself here, no one else is - no teacher, no other school kids, no parents - NOONE.

It's your choice to be the way you are - there is no magician living in your head pulling the strings - it's all up to you. The sooner you realise that the better.

kjl

Not trying to be rude here, but I hear people make these excuses all the time, Oh I'm really smart, but I didn't apply myself. Well part of intelligence is knowing what needs to be done. You say you were shy, so why didn't you apply yourself to your school work.

Now years later you are trying to blame you teachers for your unsuccessful life. Grow up and take some responsibility yourself, you are an adult now. If you figure you are so smart, teach yourself something. Open a book. Do some online courses. There are 100's of ways you could be improving yourself.

My teacher didn't really pay much attention to me, I have dyslexia and it was never diagnosed my entire time in school. It didn't stop me, I overcame it. It sounds to me like you are lazy, and maybe that's why you didn't do any study. Surely you knew in your infinity wisdom that in order to do well in the leaving cert, that you have to study. No amount of bullying or not being noticed by the teacher would have changed that. You started off this post by saying what an achievement you made by barely passing the leaving with no study, that not an achievement, that's a failure, and the sooner you realise that the better.

You say you have come out of your shyness stage, well now its time to realise that you need to take responsibility for your own actions.

Stop making excuses for yourself, you are not going to find much sympathy for you in this forum, that's for sure.

kjl

Tom Brown wrote: »

Unfortunately, there are plenty like yourself who have nothing to offer only yet another put down.

Well maybe you are not the sharpest person then if you don't even realise that dudara was offering you good advice.

LegacyUser

I was bullied horrendously for years during secondary school, not one teacher ever stood up for me. I, like you, was a shy student, but dealt with it by putting my head down and getting as much from school as I could.

Ok so you don't have a degree and you say that you can't afford one. Why not do some courses part time? Start building up your CV and your skills gradually. There must be something you are interested in. Why not sit down with a pen and paper and list some of your interests.

OP you can't write off everybody's degree as 'ten a penny', I know I for one worked damn hard for mine. You need to finally let go of all this anger towards days that are long gone and start planning for the future. Many of us had less than ideal school lives, it's how we treat our lives from here on in that matters.

krudler

I was one of those "unnoticed" kids as well, one of those pupils who teachers wont remember their name by the end of the summer, never mind a few years down the line. Its school though, I bet 90% of people have had something happen during their formative school days that still affects them as an adult, but you cant let it interfere with your life.
Your comments about not liking the education system are a bit contradictory, you want a degree because you need one, but find them worthless? so why bother? theres plenty of people who get on in life without degrees, my flatmate worked as a graphic designer for a newspaper and doesnt have a degree in it, did it on his own merit after teaching himself. It seems you just hated school and didnt bother with it, now expect to blame everyone but yourself for how you turned out, sorry but thats bs. People overcome shyness and introvertness all the time, i was very shy as a kid as well, doesnt bother me anymore.

feckthepeas

Tom Brown wrote: »

I spent thirty five years living a private hell of overwhelming fear of EVERYTHING in this world, people, animals, situations, school, work, everything. It was bred into me, I knew nothing else, until the last couple of years where I started to realise this and overcome it. I still have a way to go.

You have NO idea what it is like to live a life where every day is a living hell of irrational fear of everything around you.

As someone who knows anxiety and panic attacks intimately I have to say that the only way you are going to get past his resentment, anger and fear is to realise that YOU are in control of your life.

Stop looking backwards at how badly you were treated. Number one rule for anxiety is to STOP feeling sorry for yourself. It gets you nowhere. School is long long over, you need to put it to bed and move forward. Dwelling on the past won't help you now.

Dudara may have put it too bluntly for your liking but her sentiment is bang on, it's how you deal with the challenges in your life now that builds character.

It is not too late to make the most out of your life. Do part time or distance learning. Start applying for new jobs, start managing your money better and pay off those debts. You can turn your life around at any time.

Kila

There's an awful lot of "shoulda woulda coulda" going on in that post. A lot of the language is very typical "hard done by" language, i.e. "I was bright, but not nurtured enough", "my teachers never cared", etc.

It's unfortunate, but teachers can't also be personal therapists to every child in the class, they simply don't have time. When they can help, in my experience, they do, but there is only so much they can do, and even then, it's mostly when you ask them for help, not the other way around. How is a teacher to know that the reason you're staring out the window is your panic? All they can see is another student not paying attention in class...

No one sailed through school problem free, and if you think that they did, it's probably just that you didn't know them so well. I don't know a single person who didn't go through some kind of issue in school, be it not fitting in, not doing well, being bullied, etc. The difference is that some of those people chose to let those experiences define them, and some of those people simply get over it, and get on with it.

I was bullied in school, like plenty of others. I had other problems (which I won't go into here). I got over it. I know people who carried those problems with them to and through college and who still, as adults, are blaming childhood bullying for all of their failures.

At some point, you have to accept that not everything is everyone else's fault. If you have a problem with shyness, it is your problem to overcome, not everyone else's. You can't expect everyone to slow down and coddle you simply because you would like some encouragement. I'm not saying that the whole world is a cruel harsh place where there is no time for praise and encouragement, but simply that you should be able to get along without constant praise and encouragement.

You blame the education system for failing you, and cheapen the value of everyone else's education by claiming that degrees are, essentially, rubbish. Did you ever ask anyone in your thirteen years of "hell" for help? Did you, at any point, approach a teacher or parent and tell them you were miserable? Did you give anyone any indication that you weren't just some random quiet child who wasn't paying attention? If not, then the blame also lies with yourself.

Cheap Thrills!

I can kind of identify with you OP.

People will be affected in different ways by the same experiences. Your reaction might have been to become more introverted and frozen as you describe and others might have galvanised themselves and kicked against it.

But people are hard wired differently and your reaction and experience are just as valid as another persons. It's all very well people saying you feel self pity (and maybe you do and deserve to) but reading your post what I got out of it is a man trying to make sense of his childhood and who he is.

I also had a very cossetting Mother but who was unintentionally neglectful in other ways. Your sense of being totally alienated/bewildered I can really identify with. To me school seemed to be a baffling map of patterns that others were all automatically following and understanding but that meant nothing whatsoever to me.

I didn't understand a lot of social normalities that others took for granted, but home life was chaotic and the world seemed chaotic/unpredictable and without ryhme or reason to me also. I never ever contemplated the future as a child. I lived from day to day constantly on guard as well. Although I was intelligent to ace some subjects in my leaving without even having the textbooks in others it was as though people were speaking another language underwater.

Anyway, dont get too hung up on people saying self pity, yes you are analysing and trying to retrospectively make sense of what went on. Thats valuable and needs to be done. If you think how each little kid is treasured now and treated with kid gloves you can see your own experience was less than what it should have been. Yes there were thousands of us but that doesn't make your experience any the less damaging to you.

Of course its not good in the long run to navel gaze too much either but thats another story!

Look just thought I'd share with you anyway. Hope you get some good advice here and see you were not alone!

Waternews

Hi OP,

You're school days sound fairly miserable, and I guess, because you didn't go into any further education (yet), you've nothing to compare them against.

You know from other posters that lots of people had similar experiences - some worse, but as another poster said - that doesn't make it better for you.

I suggest that you need to put perspective on it, and examine your perceptions and thought processes around school and consequently education also.

Life is never like the movies. The sensitive teacher who will see the quiet child but realise they just need to sing/dance/play football/learn chess - doesn't exist.
Teachers are just normal people who do a job. With a class full of kids - including a couple of bullies - a quiet kid who floats along with no cause for concern and who "could do better" (right?) - is probably a bit of a blessing to them, as they don't have to worry about your behaviour in class.
You kept your head down - and no-one noticed - which was a bit of a self-fulfillling prohecy in a way.

In your secondary school, this is all reinforced again - and as teenagers we can think in very absolute terms. Therefore you probably made judgements on people, labelled them and yourself, decided that things would never change, and that was that.

As an adult - it's your duty to yourself to get past this.

Education is an achievement. Degrees are most certainly not ten a penny. While there are some of more 'worth' than others, any academic qualification is a significant achievement.

Have a look at what courses you can do. There's open days in colleges near me - so I guess they'll be coming up in your area too. Pick a subject and do an evening course. Pick something challenging, but that you are interested in and give it a go. Honestly - what's the worst that could happen.
Non-degree courses are often extremely reasonable, and you may be able to go free - but you won't find out until you go along.

Everyone else involved in your schooldays has moved on. You need to do that too. Decide you will move on - then do it. Don't let this hold you back.

Best of luck OP

Taltos

I think we are all being a bit tough on the OP.

Clearly they are still carrying the scars (perceived or real) from his over-protective mother. The anger that he cannot place with her he is misdirecting to teachers; society; us; the mods.

Op - in order to really move on you need to learn to accept whatever has happened in the past - you really cannot change it - but you can change how you view it... Remember - kids are gits...
Seek help - counselling, the reason I think this is really key is the misplaced anger you vented to the mod above. In all my time on these forums while I do not always agree with the mod's comments - they are always fair and balanced. You need to ask yourself why you are lashing out - and why to someone who is really trying to help you.

1. Learn to accept your past
2. Learn to accept others - even those who disagree with or even openly dislike you.
3. Learn to like you for you.
4. If you want seek to continue your education or look for other ways to be happy. eg Counselling.
5. Stop looking backwards - what has happened has happened - whoever is at fault. Start looking to the future and be the person you want to be, in time by imagining you are this person you will come closer to being the "success" you want to be.

Muffin top

Gotta say,

I find most of the responses to the op quite patronising; "man up" seems to be the general response. This helps the OP how exactly?

I would suggest perhaps joining some sports clubs or social gropus to start with; as this might help you come out of your shell abit.

I know you said you don't have much money; maybe you could try doing an access course; wont cost the world. This would provide you with a good grounding for further education and you could try out different subjects to see if third level is for you. Or perhaps a traineeship of some sort. Have you any interests?

username123

OP - I do believe we have to take responsibility for our own choices and looking back to the past and blaming this and that for a current situation is only useful is we use the experience to learn how to make changes going forward.

On a practical note - there are many free ways to educate yourself and add some strings to your CV bow.

You can learn languages - for free, using the books, internet usage etc available in your local library - its a great new skill to have and one doesnt need a formal qualification to prove your ability (although if you spent time learning a language you might decide to pay for some kind of formal qualification in it at the end).

There is also a lot of free online educational content on open universities website - this could be used to figure out where your interests lie and again perhaps lead you to a decision on some kind of formal qualification.

The above are really just practical considerations to give you some ideas at what you could do to bulk out your life/work experience on a CV.

On a more personal note - others have suggested counselling, sounds like a good idea. Another thing you could consider is some kind of volunteer work, something totally out of your comfort zone. Take a trip to a rough part of Jamaica to help disadvantaged kids out or a help to build homes in Africa for poor families - both of the above are short, financially viable things that are organised by Irish charities. I have friends who have done both, they said it changes your perspective on life to see real poverty and no opportunity up close and personal and makes you realise that your own life isnt so bad after all. It might sound a bit twee, but doing something worthwhile will have the dual benefit of taking your mind off your own issues and making you feel good for doing it - plus it might help with your life perspective.

Tom Brown

Tom Brown wrote: »

I spent thirty five years living a private hell of overwhelming fear of EVERYTHING in this world, people, animals, situations, school, work, everything. It was bred into me, I knew nothing else, until the last couple of years where I started to realise this and overcome it. I still have a way to go.

You have NO idea what it is like to live a life where every day is a living hell of irrational fear of everything around you.

Why the bloody hell are you even reading Personal Issues, if that is the calibre of your interest, care or response? There are people in this world who need a bit of encouragement, rational or not. Unfortunately, there are plenty like yourself who have nothing to offer only yet another put down.

How do you know people have no idea of what it's like? Do you think you're the only person to have ever experienced being sheltered and shy and having a hard time at school? Try moving country right before the start of secondary school, being a different colour to everyone else and being a Catholic at a Protestant school in Northern Ireland. Along with having social anxiety. That was me, and I still managed to get A's in my exams and all in all, I realise I didn't have such a bad time compared to many people. It's not that people don't have sympathy but this 'poor me' attitude has to stop. It's really unattractive to other people. I think you would really benefit from some counselling so that you can move on with your life, because right now you seem to be stuck in the past and it's really unhealthy.

LegacyUser

I actually posted on another thread today about social anxiety and I suggest some of the people who responded to the OP should read about it, particularly social anxiety in teens, this is what it sounds like he had/has. I can't believe the negative responses the OP got.

When I was about 12 I developed social anxiety, I thought it was a crippling shyness and only in the last couple of years did I read about social anxiety and It was amazing to read about it because every single symptom described how I had felt at the time, I stopped going to school because of it and it was put down to rebellion.....not one teacher or one family member or school counseller noticed I had social anxiety and if that's not their job when someone is a 12 year old kid then whose job is it? I mean this was in the past 10 years I told the teachers how I felt and the liason teachers and they still didn't work it out and social anxiety is a common thing!

If you have read about it then you will know that it includes a fear of suffering from embarrassment, now say for example in school if they asked me to do a role play exercise I would just downright refuse, I got a reputation in school for being a troublemaker because of this as I would explain to them I was shy and they wouldn't believe me because I would be so quick to put my foot down and refuse to do things, A massive difference between shyness and social anxiety would be that social anxiety would make you worry what your peer group think, hence the reason I could be so cheeky to the teachers.

As I said I left school because of it and I was very bright and I regret it so much now but at the time I couldn't take one more day of school. I wasn't bullied or picked on but I just physically and mentally couldn't make myself go in anymore. I think they say 10% of people with social anxiety will leave school early so I would imagine that a lot of the other 90% that stay must have a very difficult time in school.

Many experts also now believe that social anxiety in a lot of cases is caused by parents, either overprotective or neglectful parents who are anxious themselves, in my case It was an (emotionally) neglectful non affectionate anxious parent and in the OP's case if that is what he was suffering from then it was an overprotective parent.
Of course I could be wrong but it does sound to me that that was what the OP could have suffered from.

StillWaters

Tom Brown wrote: »

I can't afford to study now, I am in debt, and need to work to pay it off. Besides which, I have a deep objection to the education system as it exists.

I'm selectively quoting as this is the field I know, and want to challenge you on it. There is a huge non/informal and adult education sector out there which is free or costs very little to partake in.

I think Shelby Stocky Bowler is right though, some good counselling will help you resolve some of the anger and disgruntlement you are feeling, as well as helping you to focus on a way forward.

How Strange

Tom Brown wrote: »

I did my Leaving Cert in 1986. I got a couple of higher level passes and a couple of lower level passes, and one fail. Based on the fact that I did not do ONE single hour of study, even the night before exams, makes that quite an achievement, and begs the question what I would have achieved if I had studied hard and put my mind to it.

I live in a world where EVERYONE has a degree, and you are nobody without one, regardless of the life experience and perspective you might have.

OP, I could've written this post 12 years ago. I threw my leaving cert away for reasons unknown to even myself and while I got mediocre results I was always left wondering if only.

I then got into a job I absolutely hated and which depressed me. I couldn't believe that that this was my life for ever more. No matter what kind of job I went looking for I could only get one similar to what I was doing. It was a low level clerical job with zero prospects.

It seemed to me that everyone had a degree except me. At 21 years old I started to get very angry and resentful and I was starting to develop quite a chip on my shoulder. I knew even then that if I didn't do something about this I'd be bitter, angry and resentful for the rest of my life and that's not the person I wanted to be.

The thoughts of going back to college to do a degree seemed to be like trying to climb Everest in shorts and flipflops. It was just impossible. I could never do it. Once you're out of the system it's very hard to get back into it. You doubt yourself, you tell yourself you'd never be able to keep up with everyone else and you'd fail and look twice as stupid. I started with an evening course and that gradually gave me the confidence to consider going back to college to do a degree.

The thing I find unforgiveable, is that through thirteen unlucky years of school, not one teacher, NOT ONE, in all that time, seemed to cop on that there was a quiet child with some preoccupation in the corner, who had a problem, and might have needed some attention to that problem in order to participate. I was routinely ignored.

Besides which, I have a deep objection to the education system as it exists.

OP, you're blaming everyone for your else for how your life has turned out. It's the teachers fault, it's the education system. I remember being so angry about a teacher who'd I'd perceived as wronging me. I was adamant it was this person's fault.

If they had've said this or not said that then I'd be a different person. I'd have gone to college straight away and gotten a degree, enjoyed college life, started my career in a better job with definite career prospects instead of wasting away in a
sh1tty job with only the idea of moving to an equally sh1tty job in another company to look forward to.

I can't afford to study now, I am in debt, and need to work to pay it off.

If you place obstacles in your way then you can continue to wallow in your anger and resentment. Then you'll always have the security of blaming the teachers or the education system or the guy who picked on you in the school yard. It will always be someone else's fault.

Or you can take a chance and make the first step towards confronting what torments you. Go to your local adult ed centre or school and see what evening courses they have. You can do a course for €200. It's too late for this semester but you could start saving now so when the autumn semester starts you'll have a little money to do a course.

I've seen people in their 80's or older people with learning difficulties go back to college and confront all the demons they had from their experience of the educational system and I think it's a remarkably brave thing to do and I have the utmost admiration for them because you can see what a difficult thing it was for them to take the first step.

OP, you control your own life. You can't blame anyone else for how things have turned out for you and if they haven't turned out as you'd expected and you find yourself evaluating your life as an adult and you're not happy with the results then do something to change it. Yes, you risk exposing the most vulnerable side of you but sometimes you have to do that to achieve something.

Mary Hairy

O/p, I left school with a poxy pass leaving cert. I did some night courses and now have three degrees and a professional career. I was very angry about the waste of my potential while in school. I still am somewhat annoyed but it is better to get even than get mad. You won't ever get over what happened but you can make a better situation of it.

Wagon

Tom Brown wrote: »

I live in a world where EVERYONE has a degree, and you are nobody without one, regardless of the life experience and perspective you might have.

Actually, i'll just clear this up for you. I've got a bachelors degree and I can tell you right now that 95% of what i learned in college was the most worthless drivelling bull**** you can imagine. I went out and got pissed most of the year and then crammed everything in last minute before an exam. Anything useful i can use in a job are just things i learned myself and those things are what ultimately keeps the money coming in and a roof over your head.

A degree is an overrated thing. A friend of mine tried college 4 times and dropped out every time and then he did some courses at home himself and my god, i wish i did the same. Why? Because he learned purely useful things which have landed him a sound job despite the unemployment problem. A college degree never defines a person. It's ultimately something you get which makes it easier to get job but what my mate did worked just as well, if not better.

Pay off your debts and look into doing something you always wanted to do. Fúck your schooldays, nearly everyone wastes them. I wasted mine. And it's not hard when you have a huge number of crappy teachers in general, its not always the students fault. But rather than remembering all those wasted oppurtunities (and in fairness you were working through other things at the time), look at what you can do now. You'll feel better about it when you're doing something for yourself.

LegacyUser

Tom Brown wrote: »

I did my Leaving Cert in 1986. I got a couple of higher level passes and a couple of lower level passes, and one fail. Based on the fact that I did not do ONE single hour of study, even the night before exams, makes that quite an achievement, and begs the question what I would have achieved if I had studied hard and put my mind to it. The happiest day of my life was the day I walked out the school gate after the last exam. I remember looking back with an overwhelming sense of relief that I would NEVER see the inside of a school again.

The fact is that my schooldays were a horrendous experience. I was a pupil who 'fell through the floorboards,' and seemed to be ignored right through the years. I was painfully shy, and terrified of other pupils, even that group who were pleasant and friendly towards me. My mother had cossetted me, and I never saw another child till the day I started school at four years of age, which meant I was thrust into this group of people on my first day, with no idea how to relate to them, and no idea why I was entering this place. I never figured either of those things out right through those years.

The first guy who saw my weakness and picked on me, shortly after I had started school, shattered me, and broke my already weak spirit. From then on, I was terrified of being noticed and picked on, and saw a slight in every odd glance I got in the play yard. I kept my head down, and tried to hide myself, which must have looked strange to everyone else.

In class, when everyone else was learning the education that would see them through eventual life determining exams and careers, I was looking out the window, panicking about how I was going to get out the gate of school that evening without being picked on. The fear absorbed me to the total exclusion of everything else, even listening to my teachers. The thing is, I had a sharp mind and I could have done so exceptionally well had my mind been on the job.

The thing I find unforgiveable, is that through thirteen unlucky years of school, not one teacher, NOT ONE, in all that time, seemed to cop on that there was a quiet child with some preoccupation in the corner, who had a problem, and might have needed some attention to that problem in order to participate. I was routinely ignored.

All these years later, and I am paying the price. It took years to get over the shyness, and to start to participate in and understand the world around me. I have managed to develop personally. The only thing that has been a complete failure is my career. I never had a proper job, never had money, and now find myself struggling, and looking back with regret on all the wasted years. I can safely say I got NOTHING from my school years, it was a complete waste of my life.

I can't afford to study now, I am in debt, and need to work to pay it off. Besides which, I have a deep objection to the education system as it exists. I think the multitude of degrees out there are ten a penny and worthless, and the realisation of that seems to be getting debated now. I live in a world where EVERYONE has a degree, and you are nobody without one, regardless of the life experience and perspective you might have. It's a cheap world, and although I have found myself, and have great confidence in myself now, I still don't seem to fit in, and have no focus in my life, no goal, and I am still metaphorically looking out the window as the days go by.

What is your post actually seeking? You don't seem to want to go to university to succeed as a means to get over your childhood "failures" so what do you want? Or maybe you are "dissing" university because you'd rather not put in the effort and instead you're comforting yourself with delusions designed to make yourself feel better?

If you really did want do go to university - I mean if you *really* want to - you can do it. I failed the Inter and the Leaving Cert (twice). Still managed to get to university and study something I was passionate about, finish in the top ten of both my subjects, start a research masters, win a doctoral scholarship and transfer to the doctoral programme and leave uni with a doctorate. I was €25,000 in debt when I finished but I have that education forever. Money continues to come and go.

It's all about motivation. No excuses. No wallowing in self-sympathy. It's about getting up every morning with a sense of purpose and going to bed every night with a sense of achievement. There is no progress in this world without self-discipline.


/end.

LegacyUser

Wagon wrote: »

Actually, i'll just clear this up for you. I've got a bachelors degree and I can tell you right now that 95% of what i learned in college was the most worthless drivelling bull**** you can imagine. I went out and got pissed most of the year and then crammed everything in last minute before an exam. Anything useful i can use in a job are just things i learned myself and those things are what ultimately keeps the money coming in and a roof over your head.

A degree is an overrated thing. A friend of mine tried college 4 times and dropped out every time and then he did some courses at home himself and my god, i wish i did the same. Why? Because he learned purely useful things which have landed him a sound job despite the unemployment problem. A college degree never defines a person. It's ultimately something you get which makes it easier to get job but what my mate did worked just as well, if not better.

Pay off your debts and look into doing something you always wanted to do. Fúck your schooldays, nearly everyone wastes them. I wasted mine. And it's not hard when you have a huge number of crappy teachers in general, its not always the students fault. But rather than remembering all those wasted oppurtunities (and in fairness you were working through other things at the time), look at what you can do now. You'll feel better about it when you're doing something for yourself.

A degree is overrated only if you have it.

Nolanger

I have a 1st-class degree. It's framed on the wall in my bathroom so I can see it everytime I take a sh*t. Worthless piece of paper because the education system in this country is a joke. As for teachers, if they were really bright and capable they wouldn't be teachers. Most are the opposite to scarecows because they'll never stand out in their field. The only degrees worth doing are the medical and education ones. You don't need a degree for a lot of good jobs e.g. accounting, solicitor, civil service. The best and most talented people in other areas such as music and literature don't have degrees. Don't worry about the school days everyone went through that sh*t back in the '80s. When I did my Leaving Cert the head brother phoned my mother to say I wasn't allowed to sit the exam in his school. Had to threaten him with legal action!

dudara

Nolanger, please stick to the topic at hand. If you want to comment on the educational system, then please do so in the Education forum

dudara

Wagon

Wagon wrote: »

Actually, i'll just clear this up for you. I've got a bachelors degree and I can tell you right now that 95% of what i learned in college was the most worthless drivelling bull**** you can imagine. I went out and got pissed most of the year and then crammed everything in last minute before an exam. Anything useful i can use in a job are just things i learned myself and those things are what ultimately keeps the money coming in and a roof over your head.
.

Like everything in life, it's what you make of it. You chose to waste the opportunity of an education. That doesn't mean we all treat college as a 4 year doss. I'm sure I could have scraped through my degree as well but I chose to attend all the lectures, did the work, learned a lot and used the skills in the jobs I did afterwards. I now have a scholarship to attend a university where we get endless job/internship/study opportunities and I get to live in a city with all kinds of things on offer and loads of interesting stuff to do. I'm learning practical and professional skills that are essential for my field. College isn't for everyone and of course you can be very successful without it, but people who say it's a waste of time are people who wasted their time. If some people can't think of anything more productive to do than spend 4 years in the pub, that's their own fault. I fail to see how this reflects on the education system.

Kimia

[quote=[Deleted User];65858826]Like everything in life, it's what you make of it. You chose to waste the opportunity of an education. That doesn't mean we all treat college as a 4 year doss. I'm sure I could have scraped through my degree as well but I chose to attend all the lectures, did the work, learned a lot and used the skills in the jobs I did afterwards. I now have a scholarship to attend a university where we get endless job/internship/study opportunities and I get to live in a city with all kinds of things on offer and loads of interesting stuff to do. I'm learning practical and professional skills that are essential for my field. College isn't for everyone and of course you can be very successful without it, but people who say it's a waste of time are people who wasted their time. If some people can't think of anything more productive to do than spend 4 years in the pub, that's their own fault. I fail to see how this reflects on the education system.[/QUOTE]

An excellent post and I agree 100%. Especially this bit:

people who say it's a waste of time are people who wasted their time.

That is a fact. Losers who spend 4 years pissing away those years and then moan about college and degrees being 'worthless' are just that, losers.

Eve_Dublin

Kimia wrote: »

An excellent post and I agree 100%. Especially this bit:



That is a fact. Losers who spend 4 years pissing away those years and then moan about college and degrees being 'worthless' are just that, losers.

I think the point some people are trying to make is that not all degrees are equal. My degree was ridiculously easy...I did very little and spent a lot of time in the pub/couch/bed/working part time...I couldn´t do any more than very little because no more than very little was all that was required of me...and I still got a high 2.1.

Neyite

so your schooldays were messed up? so were mine.
that was years ago, so draw a line under it and move on..

depending on what your professional field is, you may not need a degree - skill and experience that you can add may be more highly rated.

would your employer sponsor you in a course that would benefit your career? you can study languages for free over the internet, or brush up on your typing, knowledge of Word, Excel etc which will all add to your CV. non of this costs money, only your time.

i am studying a professional qualifications. i dont have a degree, and i also had a horrendous school life, and im bright and could have been a whizz but it didnt happen that way. like you ive bills to pay so cant see the way to returning to full time studies.

mine is a part time evening course. some of my classmates have all their course fees and expenses paid for by their employer, others worked out a payment plan with their employer to pay it for them, then a bit comes out of their wages to pay it back over time. me, i paid for it myself. i had to be a bit more careful with money, but i dont owe anyone.

i wont say its easy, but im glad i did it, just do something, so that you arent looking back in another 10 years or so from the same spot.

LegacyUser

As money is the problem can anyone suggest any free career guidance websites or institutions that the O.P can attend? O.P if the money was there what courses would you be interested in taking? maybe there are scholarships or subsidized programmes.

LegacyUser

OP the beginning of your post could have been written by me. I know exactly what it is to be that child in the class. I like you didn't really socialise with other children before school and was a painfully shy and a fairly strange child. I was picked on unmercifully throughout my entire time at school and spent most of my time keeping my head down and hoping I wasn't noticed. I didn't go to good schools and had some bad teachers, most of their time was taken up with the children who couldn't be trusted not to stab each other or burn the school down and kids like me, who didn't cause any trouble but didn't do much work were virtually totally ignored. I actually did reasonable well in tests at school (dispite my lack of attention and studying) which often came as a surprise to the teachers who had barely noticed I was in the classroom. I left school with, like you, mediocre results despite my lack of studying.

Since I left school I have gone on to study a degree and a postgraduate degree, both of which I did well in. I am now dong work experience in a field that I love and (hopefully) will lead to me getting job in a field that I know I will love. I am not trying to show off and I know my story isn't exactly success story of the century but what I am trying to say is that if I had held on to all the bitterness of what happened to me at school and used it as an excuse I would never have bothered striving to get into the career I wanted, I would never have bothered going to uni, I would never have bothered trying to get work experience together. But I am an adult and what happened at school, to me and to you, was years ago and it's how you overcome difficulties that you face in life that count, we all have **** to deal with, some worse than others.

It's brilliant that you have overcome your shyness OP, It's something I ams till struggling with. But you really need to put the anger behind you too and move forward to make yourself happy.

LegacyUser

Wow, the OP has taken a battering by some people here. I know a lot of it is well intended but the tough love thing here is quite full on. The guy has come on and been pretty up front. Maybe instead of shooting him down, people should offer him some advice.

OP, I think you have had a bad experience with educatuon in Ireland. That's unfortunate as while I had plenty of awful teachers who didn't give a damn, I had a few good ones who really did seem to care. Invaluable. I also went to university and got a bachelors degree over 4 years. Yes, maybe it was quite easy at times but I felt I learnt a few things and the experience really was good. It's unfortunate that you had a bad experience with education but trust me, there are some really good peopleworking in that field and I don't think you should write it off. Bit by bit as others have said - adult education, etc.

You seem really angry and I appreciate that. What I would recommend is that you org seeing a counsellor/therapist and go from there. In fairness to some of the others, they are right in saying that it is upto you to change things. You deserve it though, it's not something you should be beaten up about.

If I could recommend one other thing, it would be to go to itunes and search for Gerry Ryan's programme podacst "The Weekly Ryan". Download the two shows entitled "Men Leaving Home" - really relevant stuff and good advice in there. The past two years in Ireland really has brought so much negativity and stress to people. I certainly feel it.

Good luck OP and try and sort out the counsellor/therapist, it could bring about a big change.

Kila

I think that the reason there's been a lot of "tough love" on this thread so far is because people believe that the OP needs to take control rather than blaming others for what has happened.

It sucks that the OP had a miserable time in school, and that it affected them badly. But the fact that he/she didn't study at all for the LC, for example, is a personal choice, and not the fault of those around him/her. That was a point in life where a positive decision could have been made (i.e. to study and get a better result), but instead, the decision to not bother studying was made. That is not something you can blame on school, on bullies, on the poor education system - that is a decision made by yourself.

The fact is that not everyone wasted their way through school and college - many of us worked very hard, despite personal problems (some much greater than those of the OP), and are proud of having achieved whatever qualification we have. With that in mind, it's easy to see how being branded as "ten a penny and worthless" would get people's backs up. Through 5 years of secondary school and 4 years of college, I worked very hard indeed to get my degree - if offends me when people deem that worthless.

OP, it may seem harsh, but the reality is that nothing will change until you take ownership of your problems. If you want your life to get better, you need to make changes yourself, rather than simply dwelling on the past and claiming that that is where the fault lies. You're a long time out of school, it shouldn't still be ruling your life. If that's not something you can do alone, then you should get some help in the form of counselling or therapy (or similar).

dan_d

Op, your thread is a bit misleading. In one sentence you say you were mollycoddled by your mother and not given a chance to interact. And in the next sentence you blame every teacher you ever had for not noticing you had a problem. If you were that molly coddled and that bullied, surely your mother would have noticed things weren't right? Or you would have said something?
You did your LC in 1986 according to your post. So you were in primary school around the mid - late 1970s? I believe normal class sizes were around 35-40 kids per class then?Depending on the school obviously. Did your school work look ok? To be honest, if you were producing sufficient school work and you were just quiet, it's likely that most of your teachers were thanking their lucky stars that you could apparently manage on your own.
To be honest OP you might be intelligent but that's not the same as having common sense. Out of all the multitude of teachers/adults/potential bosses/interviewers/co-workers/classmates that you met through your entire life, not one of them did anything for you....OP you're the common denominator there. Maybe you should think about looking at what you're doing. Fine, you're in debt. There are ways and means around everything...I don't know what your job is or what your debt is as you haven't told us, but have you tried the usual solutions? Go to MABS, try adult education, try a part-time job while studying at night....before you write off the entire education system maybe you should look into what's available in more detail. You might think degrees are 10 a penny...but it doesn't change the fact that most good jobs out there require a degree of some sort to get started in. If you can make it by yourself without one, then well and good. From what you're saying though, that doesn't seem to have worked out for you.
I do have a certain amount of sympathy OP - there's probably more that could have been done for you - but the fault does not lie solely with your teachers. And I think at this stage, the buck stops with you. You need to look hard at yourself and see if you couldn't do a bit more for yourself. You get out of life what you put into it, and at this stage, all you're putting in is bitterness, anger and resentment for perceived hurts that happened years ago. The only person you're hurting is yourself.

It's obviously the OP's fault that during his time in education, he did little to get help from others. Never mind the fact that for over half of that time, he was merely a child with an extremely malleable mind, who may have just unconsciously thought that being treated like sh!te was something he had to live with. Kids are not responsible for their own lives until about halfway through their teenage years when they are capable of becoming independent of their parents and thinking for themselves. Thus, the notion that it's the OP's fault is utter bollocks.

Your experiences as a child shape your mind in preparation for your transition into adulthood. Childhood is the time that makes you who you are; if it is particularly traumatic, it's probable you will struggle significantly in later life. The OP seems more upset that the people around him did nothing to notice the psychological effects his environment was having on him; his academic struggles were merely a symptom of this. I can understand this somewhat: I dreaded going to school every day and I suffered through similar primary and secondary education to the OP.

Some people can just get over psychological trauma through a variety of defence mechanisms, but saying "I got over it, therefore you can" is unreasonable and senseless. There are those for whom thirteen years of mental and emotional torture is too much to bear, and they may never get over it. If you were lucky and rose above such a burden by getting three degrees and a doctorate, good for you. The thing about individuality is you can never know what goes on in someone else's head, just like they can't simply mimic you and simply repress or ignore years of abuse.

LegacyUser

As someone else who left school in the 80's with a mediocre leaving cert (mostly due to my own laziness), I'm a bit baffled at the OP's attitude. Two "honours" in 1986 was enough to get you into third level education, so why didn't you go? If you had had enough of schooling after your leaving cert, why didn't you apply as a mature student a couple of years down the line? This is what I did and am now in a job that I love.

Most people I know disliked secondary school. Adolescence is a time of great anxiety for many, where you spend a lot of your time feeling out of place and wondering why people don't like you. Everyone else seems to be having a better time than you do - it's horrible and I wouldn't have those years back for anything. However, someone once told me that real adulthood doesn't start until you start taking responsibility for your life and stop blaming other people.

There will always be people who are luckier, better-looking, more popular, and have all-around more successful lives than we will. That's just life. You are clearly articulate and express yourself well. You are, by your own admission, intelligent. You're not over the hill yet! The rest of your life is ahead of you - get on with it!

dsmythy

OP has got enough feedback here but i just wanted to comment on the "man-up" style posts in the thread. If someone came on saying they felt really down and couldn't get out bed in the morning anyone telling them to man-up would be rightly told where to go. I don't think man-up is an appropiate response here either if the OP is dealing with serious mental issues. Professional counselling for his difficulties is the first step.

thethedev

OP what exactly do you want?

You say you can't get a degree, you dont want a degree, the only way you can see to get forward is getting a degree.???

Let me cut to the chase.

I left school early, hated the job I ended up in, hated the next job, hated the dole, felt like I was going no where. etc etc etc.

I managed to get on a degree course, using other courses as entry qualifications. I have no leaving cert.
You, on the other hand do, which gives you more options.
If your pissed off with your life now imagine it in 20 years time when nothing changes?

Do something, anything take a chance.

"oooh I dont believe in the education system blah blah blah"
College is a far cry from that pile of ****e they call education when your in secondary school. Its fantastic.

I'm doing a course now, its tough as **** because I have no prior background in the subjects and never studied in school and havent been in 5 years. But its still worth it just to know that I'm actually getting somewhere and achieving something.

Talk to the social welfare and your local VEC about grants etc. Many people are still perfectly eligible to draw the dole while also getting the grant so you can afford it, especially if your getting by on low wages already.

Again, do something, anything, take a chance.

Colours

I'd like to commend the OP for posting this as I can identify a lot with what he described in terms of his over-powering cosseting mother and the anxiety and lack of fulfillment he experienced in his school days.

It is generally acknowledged that people who experienced physical and sexual abuse as children are likely to have emotional and/or psychological issues in adulthood due to having experienced such trauma as children. But there is also the group of people who don't fit that category but nonetheless still experienced huge anxieties and depression as children due to for example, living with one or both parents who were physically ill, mentally unstable, alcoholics or drug addicts or who had big and often physical rows where the child was plunged into the role of referee and mediator.

I think when a child is in these situations, they assume a load of the ambient stress and emotional fall-out which is a huge issue that a child is not mature or emotionally equipped to process. The situation is even more keenly felt when the childen is an only child and has no sibling to confide in or relate to as regards the burden of worry, pressure, shame, guilt, inferiority that they are feeling inside.

This is all likely to set a child back in their schooling. I recall as child especially in my early primary school days when I was extremely timid and anxious and literally felt like I couldn't function without my mother being with me all the time. She became seriously ill when I was around seven which I think may have tipped me into a type of nervous breakdown - if a child can have that at that age - although my actual memories of that time are very hazy. These circumstances resulted in me having a huge inferiority complex about myself and severe lack of self confidence. Since the age of 7 or 8, I developed obsessive compulsive disorder and a range of self sabotaging phobias most of which I still have to a various degrees although I feel I have come a long way in the last few years to really address these issues and build up my self esteem - which by the way I think has played a key part in all my self destructive thoughts and feelings and beliefs.

I was overlooked a lot in school just like the OP, but I can't really lay the blame with any one person there as I think as a child, I was pretty perceptive and adept at disguising how I was really feeling and put on a very convincing front.

Anyway I just want to thank the OP for bringing this issue up and I hope he and I and everyone else in a similar situation can find the confidence, self belief and self love to be happy in ourselves and be confident in pursuing what we'd like to achieve.