Thoughts on this country house please

john.west

Hi to all in the accomodation forum,

Looking for thoughts on the following house. Ideally I am looking at buying in the town of Newcastle West where I could or at least stand a chance of renting a room or 2 in the house to help with the mortgage but having said that I am remaining open minded and will consider all options available. On the face of it there seems to be a lot of house for the money even in todays somewhat falling/ dodgy (or call it what you will market. Especially considering the sizeable ground around the house and it does appear quite modernised and well maintained, on paper anyway. Below is the link.

www.daft.ie/1450545


I appreciate the well documented views held by many here on property prices in this country but looking through Daft it would appear to me that one needs to consider properties on a one by one basis, particularly given the considerable variance in prices of similar houses. I sent the agent off a mail earlier this evening requesting a viewing for next weekend if possible. Anyone got any inklings of things I need to consider when considering a house of what appears to be some age? Just for comparison I can input links to a few other houses I am considering viewing if need be. Any thoughts or considerations greatly appreciated.

pburns

I think you are being quite naive going into so much detail about your future plans, linking to specific properties etc. The EA/owners can access this thread too...

RATM

pburns wrote: »

I think you are being quite naive going into so much detail about your future plans, linking to specific properties etc. The EA/owners can access this thread too...

Thats assuming the OP's real name is John West and he hasn't just picked a username based on a tin of salmon

Just cause he is interested in a property doesn't mean he's going to put a bid on it....and if he does then I'm sure he knows at this stage to offer well below the asking.

OP the price of houses is set to fall even further according to Prof.Brian Lucey of TCD in a speech to Auctioneers and Valuers. He reckons that we'll go below the pre-boom average of 131k. He predicts a further 3 years of house price falls. Any money you spend now will be money you have to repay multiples of but may not see again for a very long time (if at all). Rent, rent, rent is the order of the day, anything else is like throwing thousands of hard earned euros on top of a fire.

Article here http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/house-prices-still-far-from-bottom-warns-economist-2173968.html

ZYX

RATM wrote: »

Thats assuming the OP's real name is John West and he hasn't just picked a username based on a tin of salmon

Just cause he is interested in a property doesn't mean he's going to put a bid on it....and if he does then I'm sure he knows at this stage to offer well below the asking.

OP the price of houses is set to fall even further according to Prof.Brian Lucey of TCD in a speech to Auctioneers and Valuers. He reckons that we'll go below the pre-boom average of 131k. He predicts a further 3 years of house price falls. Any money you spend now will be money you have to repay multiples of but may not see again for a very long time (if at all). Rent, rent, rent is the order of the day, anything else is like throwing thousands of hard earned euros on top of a fire.

Article here http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/house-prices-still-far-from-bottom-warns-economist-2173968.html

Obviously Brian Lucey did not mention houses in Dromcolliher. Have you any research to show this house will drop in price for next 3 years? I don't know the area at all, do you? As the OP said
"one needs to consider properties on a one by one basis, particularly given the considerable variance in prices of similar houses"

dan_d

OP go and see the house. Do you have a family? Do you have a steady job? Can you afford the repayments/deposit, including if interest rate rise? Is the house close enough to the town/any public transport to make it convenient to renters? If you are seriously considering renting you might want to it to have 2 bathrooms, or a bathroom and ensuite for yourself?And most importantly can you see yourself living there for the next 20 or so years - past the renters and everything? At some point you will have a family and you may or may not hit negative equity, but either way you need to think about how you would manage if you couldn't sell for a long time.Probably should also consider what you have by way of broadband/satellite TV services to that area aswell.
To me that price isn't bad but I'm used to the heady heights of the closer-to-Dublin market. But go look at as many houses as possible before deciding what you want to buy.

john.west

Many thanks to all those who replied constructively to my thread so far, it is much appreciated

ZYX wrote: »

Obviously Brian Lucey did not mention houses in Dromcolliher. Have you any research to show this house will drop in price for next 3 years? I don't know the area at all, do you?

I am not in a position to apply research to the prices of houses in Dromcolliher specifically ZXY. It is an area near my home but having said that there I wouldn't know it extremely well either. Its not as if there are a large number of similar houses on daft or myhome in the immediate area to draw sound comparisons. Apart from the word on the street or on boards or indeed from many leading economists the majority of whom seem to maintain house prices will drop considerably in many cases nationwide in the coming years it is hard to single out and make a call on Dromcolliher.

dan_d wrote: »

OP go and see the house. Do you have a family? Do you have a steady job? Can you afford the repayments/deposit, including if interest rate rise? Is the house close enough to the town/any public transport to make it convenient to renters? If you are seriously considering renting you might want to it to have 2 bathrooms, or a bathroom and ensuite for yourself?And most importantly can you see yourself living there for the next 20 or so years - past the renters and everything? At some point you will have a family and you may or may not hit negative equity, but either way you need to think about how you would manage if you couldn't sell for a long time.Probably should also consider what you have by way of broadband/satellite TV services to that area aswell.
To me that price isn't bad but I'm used to the heady heights of the closer-to-Dublin market. But go look at as many houses as possible before deciding what you want to buy.

I intend to view house soon dan_d. I don't have a family but don't particularly intend to soon either. I could afford mortgage repayments, even allowing for considerable interest rate rises and deposit would be no problem either. The house is a considerable distance from town so would not realistically be an attractive proposition for renters. Having said that renting rooms in a house I buy is an alternative I am considering to help with mortgage repayment but part of me does not want to share my dwellings with strangers either. Also, not a big fan of living in a town so country living would be more ideal for me in this regard also. I wouldn't be so sure about me having a family though:p. Part of me thinks I'm going to end up a lonely ould bachelor at this stage but thats another story. As I say I am very open minded and considering all possibilites at the moment. I could accquire a site of a realtion for a nominal amount but do know that self builds can be highly problematic too and costs can spiral.

Any other thoughts on the merits drawbacks of the house and its price in todays market are very much appreciated.

athtrasna

Looks like a ridiculous price for that house. Fine and all as it is, I think it's overpriced.

OP you say you can afford the mortgage but would plan to rent out a room or two. Given job losses in the West Limerick area over past months, do you think/know there's a demand for rented rooms?

The_Conductor

Personally I would consider the property to be overpriced- and I would also be quite sceptical about the prospects of renting rooms out- that market has collapsed in the last 18 months.

OP- if you can afford the property- without resorting to uncertain income streams (such as renting rooms out)- and have compelling reasons to want this house in particular- by all means go for it.

One thing that immediately flashed in my mind- was whats the BER rating for the property? Even if it has been recently renovated to a high standard (and the flooring does look lovely)- I've been in similar houses in the depths of winter and had to wear multiple extra layers of clothes.

Do update us and let us know what happens.....

ei.sdraob

@OP

for the same price you can build a similarly sized house to your design (planning permitting of course)

and to modern standards/regulations (glazing,insulation,solar heating)

hell you probably have enough money left over to put in nice marble floors and a kitchen that doesnt look it crawled out of the 70s

john.west

athtrasna wrote: »

Looks like a ridiculous price for that house. Fine and all as it is, I think it's overpriced.

OP you say you can afford the mortgage but would plan to rent out a room or two. Given job losses in the West Limerick area over past months, do you think/know there's a demand for rented rooms?

I'm not sure athrasna. You may well argue the house is overpriced in that property is still generally overpriced here but compared to what else is on the market here and now I would argue it seems well priced. I challenge you to provide me with details of a few better priced houses in West Limerick area, house and grounds etc. all considered.;)

I could comfortably afford to pay the mortgage, renting a room or not but just trying to be as sensible as possible about it and get the mortgage paid of as quickly as possible. Hence the reason I am exploring the possibility of renting a room or two. I do hear you there though. Renting a room in such a house would be a battle, given that it is quite a few miles from the nearest reasonable sized town.

john.west

smccarrick wrote: »

Personally I would consider the property to be overpriced- and I would also be quite sceptical about the prospects of renting rooms out- that market has collapsed in the last 18 months.

OP- if you can afford the property- without resorting to uncertain income streams (such as renting rooms out)- and have compelling reasons to want this house in particular- by all means go for it.

One thing that immediately flashed in my mind- was whats the BER rating for the property? Even if it has been recently renovated to a high standard (and the flooring does look lovely)- I've been in similar houses in the depths of winter and had to wear multiple extra layers of clothes.

Do update us and let us know what happens.....

Smccarrick being a reader of the accomodation forum I do hold your thoughts and opinions in high regard. Out of curiosity if you were in my shoes what would you consider a fair and realistic offer for this house in todays market and the maximum one should consider before walking away? As previously mentioned I wouldn't hold out too much hope for renting any rooms in such a property, considering it is a considerable distance from nearest reasonable sized town where no doubt the rental market is by no means fantastic anyway. Its just a thought going through my head in considering a country house versus a town house.

Have yet to view at weekend all going well and will keep all informed of how it goes and my thoughts and opinions after viewing. The energy rating of the house is one of the thoughts at the forefront of my mind also. The agent did say it was recently renovated and maintained to a high standard but guess I'd be obviously getting a survey done and engineers report on the house if I was to proceed and buy.

john.west

ei.sdraob wrote: »

@OP

for the same price you can build a similarly sized house to your design (planning permitting of course)

and to modern standards/regulations (glazing,insulation,solar heating)

hell you probably have enough money left over to put in nice marble floors and a kitchen that doesnt look it crawled out of the 70s

I'd beg to differ ei.sdraob. Although I admit I'm by no means an expert on self builds I do know that costs can spiral and you will pay for a good build with high finish. I do know my cousin completed her build 2 to 3 years ago and although it is a dormer of slightly lager dimensions she didn't haver too much change from 270k. Granted she did not manage the build herself, left it all to the builder and one cannot knock the quality of the finish but the site was gifted to her too.

I'd be thinking big big mortgages for marble floors and all them trimmings:p

ei.sdraob

john.west wrote: »

completed her build 2 to 3 years ago

alot has changed in last 2-3 years, need I remind you

now builder/contractors are on time and competing fiercely for work, they are also paying more attention to quality

john.west wrote: »

I'd be thinking big big mortgages for marble floors and all them trimmings:p

you be surprised...

The_Conductor

john.west wrote: »

Smccarrick being a reader of the accomodation forum I do hold your thoughts and opinions in high regard. Out of curiosity if you were in my shoes what would you consider a fair and realistic offer for this house in todays market and the maximum one should consider before walking away? As previously mentioned I wouldn't hold out too much hope for renting any rooms in such a property, considering it is a considerable distance from nearest reasonable sized town where no doubt the rental market is by no means fantastic anyway. Its just a thought going through my head in considering a country house versus a town house.

Have yet to view at weekend all going well and will keep all informed of how it goes and my thoughts and opinions after viewing. The energy rating of the house is one of the thoughts at the forefront of my mind also. The agent did say it was recently renovated and maintained to a high standard but guess I'd be obviously getting a survey done and engineers report on the house if I was to proceed and buy.

The amount I'd be willing to pay- and indeed whether I'd make an offer on the property- would depend on a number of factors including:

- Where is the property located and what facilities are there in the vicinty
- Can I see myself living in the property indefinitely
- From a location perspective- why is this location better for me than other locations?
- What are the ongoing costs of ownership associated with this property

etc

If the property is close to family and friends- and ticks a lot of boxes- it could well be worth more to you than it might be worth to another person.

How much would I personally pay for the property? To be honest- from a location perspective- it wouldn't suit me, and I'd not be interested in living there at all. If it really suited me- I'd compare it to other properties within commuting distance of work- and put an additional weighting on those close to work or with other factors in their favour.......

Its not an answer- I know...... It was Publius Sirus, over 2000 years ago- who first stated that 'everything is worth what its purchaser is willing to pay for it'.

A rule of thumb might be to try and figure what the property was worth at peak prices- and take 55% off this (to allow for a small further fall)?

Victor

I don't think you can rely on renting out a room.

You need to factor in the cost of maintaining the property and grounds and all bills - I suspect water, waste, sewerage and heating might be expensive, especially for one person.

john.west

Thanks for the input folks. Ye have certainly thrown some thoughts and considerations my way. As previously mentioned I am remaining very open about my pending buy (whenever I take the plunge) and exploring all avenues regarding buying/ self build (over to the construction and planning forum next for a read:)). As I see it there is certainly no harm in taking a look at the property and the more physical properties I view hopefully the better an inkling I'll get on what is good or bad location/ structure/ price or otherwise.

Thanks again, certainly won't do anything rash and will keep ye posted after I view.

depadz

smccarrick wrote: »

A rule of thumb might be to try and figure what the property was worth at peak prices- and take 55% off this (to allow for a small further fall)?

This is not a rule of thumb that should be followed. Forget bubble prices.
A house could be 90% off peak and still be poor value.

We are in a new reality.

Some possible options for valuing:

yield. 8% would be considered realistic. Assuming a house like this in the area would get €600/month, this would equate to 100K purchase.

price per sq ft

Offer pre 2000 price for it. If house did not exist, get info for a similar house in area that did exist.

dan_d

john.west wrote: »

Thanks for the input folks. Ye have certainly thrown some thoughts and considerations my way. As previously mentioned I am remaining very open about my pending buy (whenever I take the plunge) and exploring all avenues regarding buying/ self build (over to the construction and planning forum next for a read:)). As I see it there is certainly no harm in taking a look at the property and the more physical properties I view hopefully the better an inkling I'll get on what is good or bad location/ structure/ price or otherwise.

Thanks again, certainly won't do anything rash and will keep ye posted after I view.

Talking about self-builds is all very well....but be very sure you can get planning permission first. And as a word of advice if you do - take as much time as possible to work out all your details and plan everything you can prior to commencing. You would be amazed what can occur during a build and any deviation from the plans will cost you money.Put in the time before, and it will save you a lot of hassle during the build.

ei.sdraob

The poster above is correct
assuming you can budget and plan well (and prepare to learn alot) then you can have a house that you want that is build to high standards
the house the OP linked to looks very old, cold
you would probably need another 50K just to gut it all out and bring it screaming and kicking into the 21st century (well unless you like living in something that looks was used by priests of Father Ted )
what is the BER rating? I thought all homes put on sale now have to have this info??


@OP i know nothing of the area in question, but searching on daft there are plots with planning permission for 50K in the same area, offer them 30K and see what happens

john.west

dan_d wrote: »

Talking about self-builds is all very well....but be very sure you can get planning permission first. And as a word of advice if you do - take as much time as possible to work out all your details and plan everything you can prior to commencing. You would be amazed what can occur during a build and any deviation from the plans will cost you money.Put in the time before, and it will save you a lot of hassle during the build.

I hear you there dan_d and as I previously mentioned I would be somewhat weary of commencing a self build in terms of things potentially going wrong or costs spiralling. Despite recession/ economic downturn I think many under estimate the cost of selfbuild even in todays market. As previously mentioned I will not do anything rash when it comes to what may well be the biggest decision in my life. Thanks for the input.

john.west

ei.sdraob wrote: »

@OP i know nothing of the area in question, but searching on daft there are plots with planning permission for 50K in the same area, offer them 30K and see what happens

Ah come on ei.sdraob you may think the market has completely collapsed but do you seriosly reckon an offer of 30k will be entertained:p. We have to remain realistic about it too, don't want to be wasting mine or other peoples time. Will find out the BER rating in due course.

john.west

Hi folks, Just to provide ye with an update I viewed the house this morning. My first impression is that the house is in a nice secluded location which I like. The estate agent was not pushy or anything like which was a bit of a relief given the last few Estate agents I dealt with. He let me trot around the house and view at my own leisure. I can't say he was too knowledgeable though. When I asked him the BER rating he said he would imagine it was pretty ok but would need to get back to me on it which is neither here nor there. He said it was dry-lined but unsure if there was any insulation on the walls. I did also see what I thought looked like woodworm on the lower jam running up the stairs (if thats the right name). I showed it to him and he said he was unsure but would name it to the owner, which again seemed somewhat unsatisfactory.

He did say the owner had just divorced and was eager to sell to get back to England but would not budge on 200k. He was selling it at 330k two years ago seemingly. I said I'd mull it over and may ring him back with an offer subject to a structural engineers report on the house.

Hmm, not really sure it is an impressive house for the right person but don't really know if thats me and still the BER rating of the house and what I mentioned on the stairs is a wee bit worrying.