Gas Heating Question

Malta1

Hi All

Seem to have a slightly strange problem

When I was last out on my van, I ran out of gas......or at least I though I did. I was running the heating off gas and after a few days of use, the heater just cut out....hence gas was gone right?

Well actually wrong, when I went to change the cylinder, I noticed that the cylinder was about quarter full (hard to know exactly how much was left but it definitely was not empty)

The reason I’m posting this here is because this is not the first time that this has happened. Last time I changed the cylinder, it again was about quarter full - but the heating had stopped so I put it down to a "faulty" cylinder.

It should be noted that when a new cylinder is connected, the heater will run without any problems. I am using a "pop on” or “push on" regulator and I am using standard Calor Gas cylinders

Any of you Gas Gurus (and I don’t mean funny men ) got any idea whats going on or how this might be tackled?

Cheers

Aidan_M_M

it's quite normal with Calor gas , Butane . Simply put , it's sh1te. Seems the pressure drops a bit when the bottle gets low , and it has a lot of "heavy" in it , which is an oily fluid. The Truma combi is the first appliance to fail .

Try get Propane , it can be found in the same size bottle with standard clip on Regs.

Malta1

Cheers for the quick reply........does the pressure rating have to be adjusted or is it just a like for like swap

Joey the lips

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

it's quite normal with Calor gas , Butane . Simply put , it's sh1te. Seems the pressure drops a bit when the bottle gets low , and it has a lot of "heavy" in it , which is an oily fluid. The Truma combi is the first appliance to fail .

Try get Propane , it can be found in the same size bottle with standard clip on Regs.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Its prob got something to do with the pressure settings.

I dont know much about motor homes but can the pressure on the fire not regulated...So the calor "sh1te" bottle is acceptable,

Aidan_M_M

it's a like for like swap . The regulator controls the pressure , not the bottle.

Aidan_M_M

Joey the lips wrote: »

This is exactly what I was thinking. Its prob got something to do with the pressure settings.

I dont know much about motor homes but can the pressure on the fire not regulated...So the calor "sh1te" bottle is acceptable,

Not easily , and not with ripping it apart and installing new parts .
The problem with the Butane is the amount of crap in it , oil , dirt , moisture etc .

Aidan_M_M

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

Seems the pressure drops a bit when the bottle gets low , .

by that I mean the internal pressure drops , and seems to find it hard to push the foreign bodies through the regulator .

Malta1

Cheers guys

Will try propane and see how it goes

martyc5674

Ive the same scenario...heating etc all works great on a full bottle...as the bottle gets near empty the heating trips more and more frequently yet the fridge, cooker etc all work fine...and with the price of gas i wouldnt be too inclined to be dumping a quarter a bottle each time.
Ill try propane the next time too....thanks for the tips :-)

One question...what pressure regulator is standard on coach built campers??
A guy i met on a campsite recently told me that the "irish" regulators that are put onto imported M/H's regulate to a slightly lower pressure than the regulators that come supplied from the factory and that can cause issues.


Cheers,
Marty.

Aidan_M_M

Hmm... geniuses on campsites..... Irish Kosangas type regulators work at 29millibar .Campers built after the mid nineties were jetted mostly for 30mb. Not enough to make a difference . The early 90's stuff was 50mb , and they had the most problems , with the Combi Truma , they need a new 30mb jet fitted .

martyc5674

Cheers Aidan...was thinking alright it was too close to be an issue, wasnt sure of the figures though.
Cheers,
Marty.

jinghong

Anyone use a gas tank?

I'm going wilding for 3 months in Southern Europe so I think thats probably a better job

Sounds like you dont get more that 4 5ths out of a bottle anyway

I hate getting ripped off

Aidan_M_M

ah with Propane you normally empty the bottle .

Macy0161

Might not be the same, but we had a similar problem with butane bottles not emptying on our hob at home - replacing the regulator solved the problem.

tompiper

Not sure about the quality of butane as some have mentioned, but I would have thougt it to be the same qaulity as here in England, which is fine.

The issues you are having might be to do with the different ways butane and propane behave in colder weather.

Under pressure they are both liquids and basically need to boil to turn back to a gas. Propane will do this with no problems well below 0 degrees celsius outside. (in fact, and don't quote me, but I think down to about -35) whereas, under pressure butane doesn't like tempeartures much below 6 or 7 degrees celcius.

When the bottle is full, there is probably a bit more oomph to get it going. Once you get down to about 1/4, it probably hasn't got what it takes, although shaking the bottle a bit normally wakes it up.

Most caravanners will use Butane if they are only using it in better warmer weather, because it is a fair bit cheaper, and propane in the winter.

Butane should be regualted to 28 mbar and Propane to 37mb. On reasoanble modern equipment you won't notice any difference (I have a van built in 97 and this works). Much more modern vans may have a 'bulk head regulator' rather than the clip on to the bottle types, and these are at 30mbar, again it doesn't matter which gas you use.

Hope this makes sense.

TP

Aidan_M_M

It's anything but fine in England! I had 2 technicians from Truma over here last week , and their hearts are broken with the Gas! germany is about the only place I know that is refining it to a proper standard .

There's all sorts of stories , the best one is the claims that the rubber hose on the reg is deteriorating and creating oil.. the Truma techs had one fail lately on a brand new M'home with a man ufacturer fitted steel gas tank , and steel piping throuyghout..... which debunks that myth .

*Kol*

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

It's anything but fine in England! I had 2 technicians from Truma over here last week , and their hearts are broken with the Gas! germany is about the only place I know that is refining it to a proper standard .

There's all sorts of stories , the best one is the claims that the rubber hose on the reg is deteriorating and creating oil.. the Truma techs had one fail lately on a brand new M'home with a man ufacturer fitted steel gas tank , and steel piping throuyghout..... which debunks that myth .

What failed and what was the cause? Luckily I have never had any problems with gas appliances.

Aidan_M_M

Basically the wall mounted Regulator chokes up , and you have either no gas flow at all into the van , or just about enough for the Hob . And the only solution is to replace it . this is the reg..