Taxbook ads

gyppo

I've noticed a lot of ads (not on this site btw!) with sellers offering to sell a beyond repair/restoration shell with taxbook.

It doesnt take a genius to figure out the reasoning behind this is probably VRT avoidance.

Personally, although I'm no fan of VRT, I think such ads do no favours to the classic car fraternity.

My question is how widespread do you think this practice is?

corktina

very widespread and I agree with you....

okistag

gyppo wrote: »

I've noticed a lot of ads (not on this site btw!) with sellers offering to sell a beyond repair/restoration shell with taxbook.

It doesnt take a genius to figure out the reasoning behind this is probably VRT avoidance.

Personally, although I'm no fan of VRT, I think such ads do no favours to the classic car fraternity.

My question is how widespread do you think this practice is?

I tend to agree also with you if it is intended the way one could take an advert like this. On the other hand it could be a shell that could be saved !! and hence one would need the log book, if going to restore it. What may be beyond repair to one dosent mean it is to another.!!

I also have to say, I know of someone who bought a shell with a log book and had another classic in very bad shape accident damage and between the two cars he restored a magic car. Okay it was made up of parts from both cars and used the chassis of the one with the log book, which is fine. Now in the case of a classic which doesnt have a chassis as such the same could apply, or not ?

So as we all know when we strip a car down to bits and pieces and use parts from both cars and it has a right mix between the two it can be hard to say which it is. At the end of the day one of the two survive right and carry the Mark on.

I hate when people just change plates and ID on a car, then claim it to be an original Irish car or try and sell it for a premium etc.

There is nothing wrong with ZV, at all and I understand its nice to see an Irish car still about as we can track history etc. Our Interest is Classic cars and those who knock an import or a car on ZV, I personally question their actually interest.

If you want an original Irish car buy one and if there arent any of the make and model here for sale, and the plate means so much to you go for the 2nd make or model on your list, till you get the plate you want, cause at the end of the day its the plate they are after and not the car just my personal thought on it as thats what is sounds like to me.

I personally like an Original Irish car and 2 of mine are and I was lucky to find them, but I would not turn up my nose at a ZV ever and why should I.

These cars are their owners pride and joy and alot of work has gone into them, or by just keeping them on the road. No one has a right to knock anyones car at all. I know off the topic but had experance something like it a few weeks back. It was a red rag to a bull if you get me.

I saw a comment on here a long while back about a show someone attended, and the comment was along the lines of, noticed so many Irish classics at this show and refered it down to the idea suggested above again I know of a Herald and a number of cars being restored in the last number of years which will show up at shows in the future one has been off the road for the past 25 years. Does this mean that people will look at an original Irish car and doubt it is what is !!! because its suddenly appeared!!

Remember we maybe going through some bad times right now but in the good times there were people spending money on restoring cars that may of been of the road a number of years and when they are finished it would be awful to hear such things said.

Please dont take me wrong, I dont agree with what some minor groups may do, but lets not judge everyone on it.

It is dangerious in ways others may not think. A situation which happened a couple of years back.
A long time standing member of a club in the UK sold a mint car to a fellow in Ireland and the club had a record of all their members cars and want to keep it up to date and contacted me with the name of the purchaser in Ireland and the details of the car and asked me if i could confirm that the car was still about, the car had changed hands here for what i would call a premium price as it was an "original Irish car with a well known previous owner" It was totally and utterly wrong !! what was done here but they are few and far between.

I am more than likely going to get shot for my comments above but its a pet hate of mine, sorry if i offended anyone.

Bigus

If a yoke is pre 1979 there is effectively no loss of vrt unless you call €50 a big loss.

Perhaps this is why normally legit people would consider something as shocking ! as this. Because if the revenue and customs aren't bothered why should you be . Revenue's job is to collect money effectively not chase up slightly dodgy swapping of plates on old scrap. Thats why they're not bothered checking on vintage cars outside the vrt office, no potential for extra income.

okistag

Bigus wrote: »

If a yoke is pre 1979 there is effectively no loss of vrt unless you call €50 a big loss.

Perhaps this is why normally legit people would consider something as shocking ! as this. Because if the revenue and customs aren't bothered why should you be . Revenue's job is to collect money effectively not chase up slightly dodgy swapping of plates on old scrap. Thats why they're not bothered checking on vintage cars outside the vrt office, no potential for extra income.

Very true but even if they did it would be extremely hard to prove as such, but all the same why mess about in the first place and maybe cause problems for the legit entustsists, its not as if they are saving much or anything or making much out of it. Just to say their car is Irish which is a load of !$%& and they know it. some people have too much time on there hands really.

carchaeologist

And with the new NCT situation,there wont be a MK5 Cortina with its original number left...

Blue850

There was a trader at Durrow with a list of taxbooks for sale

gyppo

Bigus wrote: »

If a yoke is pre 1979 there is effectively no loss of vrt unless you call €50 a big loss.

Your point, and Okistags points are very valid.

However, cars post 1980 still attract a minimum VRT of €720, and in the case of some marques like porsche, etc, you could expect to pay in the region of €1500+.
It is this practice I was talking about.

Kevin_Herron

Blue850 wrote: »

There was a trader at Durrow with a list of taxbooks for sale

Yeah there was a few of them on a stand, I flicked through them and they were mainly Hunters and Avengers but there was one there for a '41 Chevrolet- an old Dublin car.

I was a bit sorry afterwards that I didnt buy it!

8464

Also, if you were unfortunate enough to be involved in an accident with one that was proved to have had the vin number messed about with there is no valid insurance on that car.

carchaeologist

8464 wrote: »

Also, if you were unfortunate enough to be involved in an accident with one that was proved to have had the vin number messed about with there is no valid insurance on that car.

Surely this is the main point here?

a '41 Chevrolet- an old Dublin car

How much were they looking for them Kevin?

Kevin_Herron

I dont know, I did ask but the stallholder wasnt there and he had left his friend in charge so I just said I'd come back later. And when I did they were all gone!

corktina

Bigus wrote: »

If a yoke is pre 1979 there is effectively no loss of vrt unless you call €50 a big loss.

Perhaps this is why normally legit people would consider something as shocking ! as this. Because if the revenue and customs aren't bothered why should you be . Revenue's job is to collect money effectively not chase up slightly dodgy swapping of plates on old scrap. Thats why they're not bothered checking on vintage cars outside the vrt office, no potential for extra income.

Why you should be bothered is because you would be driving with no insurance. The car you have insured was scrapped years ago and the car you are driving is a totally different one.

ti gui

Hi,
on a similar subject, I am about to by two wrecks for a restoration project and none of them have a log book. how easy or difficult will it be for me to put one back on the road legally?
thanks.

Bigus

8464 wrote: »

Also, if you were unfortunate enough to be involved in an accident with one that was proved to have had the vin number messed about with there is no valid insurance on that car.

Any facts to back this up. ?

Also i don't agree with people profiting form changing plates but i can see how somebody would want to put an irish reg on their classic.

Maybe its one for the government to male money out of by re issuing plates for a fee to cars over 30 years old. Too much to ask though

corktina

Bigus wrote: »

Any facts to back this up. ?

Also i don't agree with people profiting form changing plates but i can see how somebody would want to put an irish reg on their classic.

Maybe its one for the government to male money out of by re issuing plates for a fee to cars over 30 years old. Too much to ask though

i fully agree that old style numbers should be available for those wishing to pay as in the UK.
You dont needs facts to back up the Insurance not being valid, if "they" prove its not the car it appears to be then any insurance with that number by defination doesnt belong to that car...therefore, no Insurance.

carchaeologist

corktina wrote: »

i fully agree that old style numbers should be available for those wishing to pay as in the UK.
QUOTE]
I dont know how this would work in practice. I wouldnt agree with it. You would have no idea what was what if that was introduced.

If there was a better set-up for historic plates other than the current ZVs there would be no need.
There has been alot of cars that have lost their original numbers in england too because the plates are often worth much more than the cars and can be sold.

macplaxton

carchaeologist wrote: »

corktina wrote: »

i fully agree that old style numbers should be available for those wishing to pay as in the UK.

I dont know how this would work in practice. I wouldnt agree with it. You would have no idea what was what if that was introduced.

Aye you would. You'd look at the car and tell the difference from the details, chassis no, construction, local content, local specification rather than get hung up on the numbers stuck front and back. Beside, pre-ZV could you tell?

carchaeologist wrote: »

If there was a better set-up for historic plates other than the current ZVs there would be no need.

I know how it'd work. Those that wanted to waste a load of cash on a plate could.

The rest of us would get an age-related issue that would properly fit on a period plate in terms of digits and approximate appearance.

The government would make a few quid too

carchaeologist wrote: »

There has been alot of cars that have lost their original numbers in england too because the plates are often worth much more than the cars and can be sold.

Well so be it, if the proceeds of the plate can help the restoration fund...

gyppo

This is the type of thing I was referring to initially...........

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/vintagecars/1309711

corktina

a bit pointless when the car is over 30 years old!

gyppo

corktina wrote: »

a bit pointless when the car is over 30 years old!

Not if you have a car thats under 30 years old.....

hi5

Call alex on 0868472631

Alex deserves to be reported for stupidity if not attempted tax evasion,whats he going to do with a tax book? hang it on the wall.
Maybe hes going to buy this
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/vintagecars/1260774
and save himself nearly €4000 over the next two years.

So why doesnt he buy this?

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/vintagecars/1244318

and teach himself a few skills and preserve an original irish car aswell.