Am I a misogynist?

LegacyUser

Hey all. Firstly, I bare no ill will against women. The best manager I ever had was female and some of the best collegaues I've ever had were women. I think women deserve the same rights as I do and I would never force my opinion on a woman's body (e.g. abortion). I am always respectful and courteous to everyone I meet and I respect personal space.

However, I find myself increasingly not caring about the decisions some women make. Firstly I'm not the guy who pretends to be someone's friend just so I can get closer to them. I don't complain about "bad guys" getting all the women. I don't buy into these cliches. My problem with women doesn't stem from jealously.

It's just that I'm finding myself becoming more and more indifferent to the plight of women. I got the bullet from someone in favour of another guy, but the guy ended up being a bit of a psycho. She dumped him and started up contact with me again. But while I showed her sympathy, secretly I didn't feel any actual sympathy. I was really feeling "Serves you right for being a ****ing idiot."

I have another friend who, well, is a bit idiotic when it comes to men. I mean she's done some absolutely ridiculous things. However the more she tells me about what she's done the less I feel angry towards the men who have done her wrong. All I can think is "Serves you right for putting yourself in the situation ONCE AGAIN."

Furthermore, I can feel contempt rising in me when I read women talking about men online. For instance when people say "I should really know better, he keeps hurting me but I can't quit him." Why do you love him if he keeps hurting you? Is it a case of only getting "addicted" to a male if he's treating you like ****? The little anecdotes from men about their experience with ignorant women insulting them on nights out get to me too. Some of the stories I've read about downright horrific women are absolutely horrifying.

I don't know, as I said at the start I bare no ill will against women and I feel they deserve equal status in every aspect of society. But at the same time I can feel my ego growing, I can feel myself judging women and say "Yes, I'm better than all of you." I'm usually not one to generalise but when I say I've never met a woman that made me think otherwise I am being absolutely honest.

This is summed up by the fact that every time I forget about women I am my absolute happiest. But I know this isn't healthy so I'm asking you all what I can do to change my attitude. I know I'm being out of order, so by all means don't hold back if I need to hear some home truths.

Thanking you.

Lux23

I don't think your a misogynist; you just have no time for women who bring troubles on themselves. I know I would feel the same way when male friends tell me about how they let some girl walk all over them.

Kimia

I feel the same way and I'm a girl.

sarmer

I can see where you are coming from. I'm a woman myself and have seen so many of my friends make seriously bad decisions and bring on trouble themselves.
For example, one of my friends was in a relationship for years only to find out her boyfriend had another girlfriend behind her back. You would think she would kick him to the curb but she actually kept chasing after him even though he made it clear he wanted the other girl!! I had sympathy for her initially when she found out about his cheating but when she was knocked back again I just felt it was her own fecking fault!
It sounds cold but I have no sympathy for people who act like this. But OP I have to stress, it's not all women that do this. And some men do it too. It's just a feature of people in general.

LegacyUser

You sound quite self aware and thoughful tbh. Question would you feel the same way about a male friend who kept going back to women who mistreated him and then complained about it? Futher question - why are you asking the question in the first instance. Just because you support equal rights for women doesn't make you "pro women". A lot of guys I know always trot out the line about never hitting a woman as if that proves that they respect women and that's all there is too it. It isn't. Maybe you have something going on under the surface there otherwise why would you post this questions. Do you have a girlfriend? have you been badly hurt by an ex?

Nevyn

Some people just don't learn they go form one failed relationship to another with out ever looking at the pattern or thier part in it and so are doomed to make the same mistakes.
I can understand you developing disdain for people who do that but why let them change who you are.

Honestly if there are no women in you life who you respect then you need better people in your life.

Taltos

Just keep reminding yourself of that movie - you know with Bruce Willis - "I see dead people..." - well how about "I see stupid people..."

At the same time though - feeling better about yourself because of their stupid / poor choices is not really all that nice or healthy. Maybe try not to focus so much on their misadventures.

Curious though why you would not point out your friend's poor choices - maybe all they need is someone to tell them to cop on. (In a nice way of course).

Jenneke87

misogynist wrote: »

It's just that I'm finding myself becoming more and more indifferent to the plight of women. I got the bullet from someone in favour of another guy, but the guy ended up being a bit of a psycho. She dumped him and started up contact with me again. But while I showed her sympathy, secretly I didn't feel any actual sympathy. I was really feeling "Serves you right for being a ****ing idiot."

I have another friend who, well, is a bit idiotic when it comes to men. I mean she's done some absolutely ridiculous things. However the more she tells me about what she's done the less I feel angry towards the men who have done her wrong. All I can think is "Serves you right for putting yourself in the situation ONCE AGAIN."

I don´t think you´re a misogynist. I am a woman and have the same feeling towards a female friend(my best friend in fact, horrible as that may sound) She got married last september. This guy doesn´t help around in the house, let some of her pets die because he forgot to feed them when she was away for a couple of day, has tried to strangle her and put her in debt and she still married him. Whenever she´s complaining about him all I can think is`I don´t feel sorry for you, you could have dumped him over his behaviour 8 years ago but what did you do? You married the idiot!

I have very little patience with people like that. All they do is complain but they never take any steps to improve their lives or get away from harmful situations. I think that´s what you are fed up with instead of women in general?

LegacyUser

You should do what I do. When I read some men's downright insulting posts about women, I imagine he's like a Comic Book Guy kind of character who is so angry at the world for not getting his own way, he spends his time thinking up ways to win every argument there possibly is in the most pedantic manner.

So you should imagine these women who are annoying you are like Comic Book Guy. Works for me : )

Cheap Thrills!

I don't think you're a misogynist either. I can't entertain willful stupidity either from either sex. There is nothing wrong with how you feel.

AssaultedPeanut

sarmer wrote: »

it's not all women that do this. And some men do it too. It's just a feature of people in general.

^^^what this person said.

Misogyny - hatred or contempt for women


Sexism describes discrimination against someone on the grounds of their gender.
The belief that people of one sex or gender are inherently superior to people of the other sex or gender;

It appears you are the latter rather than the former.
When a woman does something stupid = Women are stupid and inferior.
When a man does something stupid = that guy is stupid.

I've found it to be quite common, and not a very desirable trait.

Just because you know some women who appear to be thick does not mean all women are.

helimachoptor

Op men are the same, some lads i know go out with the same types of girls over and over and complain about being treated like $hit etc, baffling!

LegacyUser

If you think Danny Dyer gave good advice in his recent column then perhaps you are!

up for anything

dementedsoul wrote: »

^^^what this person said.

Misogyny - hatred or contempt for women


Sexism describes discrimination against someone on the grounds of their gender.
The belief that people of one sex or gender are inherently superior to people of the other sex or gender;

It appears you are the latter rather than the former.
When a woman does something stupid = Women are stupid and inferior.
When a man does something stupid = that guy is stupid.

I've found it to be quite common, and not a very desirable trait.

Just because you know some women who appear to be thick does not mean all women are.

Well said, dementedsoul.

law86

So in truth, if you believe that stupidity is gender specific, then you are somewhat sexist, if not mysoginistic. You seem more disappointed than hateful though, maybe you're just not mixing with women of substance!!

LegacyUser

Thanks for the replies people, much appreciated, apologies for being selective here;

tgifridau wrote: »

You sound quite self aware and thoughful tbh. Question would you feel the same way about a male friend who kept going back to women who mistreated him and then complained about it?

Do you have a girlfriend? have you been badly hurt by an ex?

I would feel the same way, in fact I know one male who is exactly the way I described and it drives me crazy.

I don't have a girlfriend. Do you think that has something to do with me attitude? Admittedly these feelings come to the fore when I've been hurt by someone.

Originally posted by Taltos
At the same time though - feeling better about yourself because of their stupid / poor choices is not really all that nice or healthy. Maybe try not to focus so much on their misadventures.

Curious though why you would not point out your friend's poor choices - maybe all they need is someone to tell them to cop on. (In a nice way of course).

I can't help it really. I can't help looking at someone's stupidity and feel that I am in some way better than them.

I dunno, I've been brought up to be respectful and to bite your tongue if you feel the need to be venomous. I also don't think I'd be able to stop if I started.

Originally posted by Thaedydal
Honestly if there are no women in you life who you respect then you need better people in your life.

I don't why I said that to be honest, anger in the moment I suppose. I don't really think all women are all the same, I have much respect for many in my life. Incidently these are women who are well able to look after themselves and can accept when there's a problem.

Rented Mule

OP - the word you are looking for is pragmatic. I also believe that in learning from your experiences, you have become a bit apathetic.

LegacyUser

OP it sounds more to me like what you have a problem with is irrationality, which is somewhat understandable.

Nonetheless, you have to remind yourself that it is a part of the human condition. If we followed some ideal of everyone acting 100% rationally, we would have no emotional lives to speak of.

You don't have a girlfriend but do you want one? I am sure it is possible to meet an intelligent woman whom you respect, but that respect will involve acknowledging that while someone might not always react as you would in a situation, they do have their own reasons/drivers that lead them to act in a certain way, and they are no less valid as part of the human condition than your own instincts or rationale.

You don't have to agree with people's decisions but when you love someone, you try and understand them. Are you willing to put your ideas about the "right" way to react aside for someone special?

LegacyUser

Hi Op,

It's interesting that you say these feelings come to the fore when you have been hurt. It seems like as a way of making yourself feel better you have placed the blame with all women rather than the person who hurt you. I have been hurt by a woman so all women are mindless idiots etc.. That is a very dangerous trap so beware. Won't have much luck keeping a decent girlf with that attitude. However it is very common.

In my experience the most disrespectful men have been the one's who have least success with women or who have been rejected. As a man's status with the lads is often measured by his success with women men start to feel insecure about themselves and this becomes projected onto all women. All women are bitches etc. If they do meet a girl then often they don't treat her well for fear of being rejected or the attitude comes out. Girls can pick up on this stuff a million miles away.

There is hope for you though as at least you are taking the time to question yourself. A lot of people never make it to this stage and spend their whole life making the same mistakes. Next time a female is irritating to you have a long think about what is really going on. Are you maybe jealous that she is going back to some guy that you think you are better than? Is it you are not that guy? Do you feel rejected by women who then hooked up with someone you see as a tosser?

Stop judging individual females as representative of all women. Just like men women are all different and unique. Treat everyone you meet as an individual. Next time you have a female friend who irritates you say something. It might be helpful to hear your perspective. Ultimately though I think the issue is within you personally and your relationship with women is just some symptom, of a deeper insecurity. I know when I have been hurt by a man - I start to look for negative attributes that I apply to all men.

All men are cheating bastards, sex obsessed etc. I have to stop myself and realise that this is not fair and that some guys are not like that. This is because I have a very hard time trusting and when my trust is broken I take it very personally. This is my problem not all men in general! Good luck. You are halfway there. You will be a better person for having worked through this!!!!!!!!!!!

LegacyUser

tgifriday wrote: »

Hi Op,

It's interesting that you say these feelings come to the fore when you have been hurt. It seems like as a way of making yourself feel better you have placed the blame with all women rather than the person who hurt you. I have been hurt by a woman so all women are mindless idiots etc.. That is a very dangerous trap so beware. Won't have much luck keeping a decent girlf with that attitude. However it is very common.

Very true, I think it's just easier for me to generalise. I try not to.

In my experience the most disrespectful men have been the one's who have least success with women or who have been rejected. As a man's status with the lads is often measured by his success with women men start to feel insecure about themselves and this becomes projected onto all women. All women are bitches etc. If they do meet a girl then often they don't treat her well for fear of being rejected or the attitude comes out. Girls can pick up on this stuff a million miles away.

I don't think I have that problem. I don't speak to women with an attitude and as far as I know, they find me pleasant. I think they appreciate someone who doesn't try to hit on them constantly.

There is hope for you though as at least you are taking the time to question yourself. A lot of people never make it to this stage and spend their whole life making the same mistakes. Next time a female is irritating to you have a long think about what is really going on. Are you maybe jealous that she is going back to some guy that you think you are better than? Is it you are not that guy? Do you feel rejected by women who then hooked up with someone you see as a tosser?

I'm beyond being bitter and jealous at this stage. I value friendship and I try to be there for people when they need someone. I've been a shoulder to cry on for a number of women and I have no issue with that, I'm happy to play that role. They seem to appreciate it, they call me a great friend and the like. But then when I've built them up they just go quiet. All of a sudden our friendship isn't important anymore because they don't feel like **** anymore. I hate being used like that.

Originally posted by guest_guest
OP it sounds more to me like what you have a problem with is irrationality, which is somewhat understandable.

Nonetheless, you have to remind yourself that it is a part of the human condition. If we followed some ideal of everyone acting 100% rationally, we would have no emotional lives to speak of.

You don't have a girlfriend but do you want one? I am sure it is possible to meet an intelligent woman whom you respect, but that respect will involve acknowledging that while someone might not always react as you would in a situation, they do have their own reasons/drivers that lead them to act in a certain way, and they are no less valid as part of the human condition than your own instincts or rationale.

You don't have to agree with people's decisions but when you love someone, you try and understand them. Are you willing to put your ideas about the "right" way to react aside for someone special?

I suppose I would like a girlfriend, but every time I take a break from thinking about women and get my head together, I make myself think I'm ready to try again but I fall into this same trap. I seem to focus a lot on the wrong women for some strange reason. I suppose I get sucked in by women with problems and who make me think they need me. But in reality all they need is an ego boost and quickly forget about me once they have gotten that ego boost.

I definitely can't understand how relationships can be so irrational. I don't understand how people can let themselves by treated like **** yet still say they cannot live without someone. That kind of crap just fills me with contempt, I just don't understand it.

Originally posted by Rented Mule
OP - the word you are looking for is pragmatic. I also believe that in learning from your experiences, you have become a bit apathetic.

Thank you for saying that, the more I think about it I don't really think I'm a misogynist, I just think I'm becoming more and more intolerant of stupidity and selfishness.

LegacyUser

Hi Op,

Can I ask how old you are? You sound quite mature but there is an innocence or something about you that suggests you are younger. I am guessing early twenties? I think everyone goes through that disappointment with people phase at some stage. Though that does not make it easier. People can be very selfish at the end of the day but only in as much as you allow it.

However I think you have answered you own question. You have placed yourself in the role of shoulder to cry on. Once you accept this role it is hard for others to see beyond that. I too often am the shoulder to cry on and have often found when I needed a shoulder there was none there.

This leads to resentment full stop. Can you work on this perhaps? Stop being so available to others and being the one to pick up the pieces. Are you getting something out of this role as in being wanted and needed? Could you go and chat to other girls? Or next time a friend comes crying to you say how you feel. If you look after everyone else's needs people fail to see that you have your own needs. Sometimes you have to spell it out sad as that may seem. I am sure there are lots of girls who would love to have a boyfriend like you. Go out and find them. You are wasting your time on girls who are making you feel bad about yourself. You can change this. Resentment will only hurt you in the end. You sound very decent, honest, self aware and flawed. I love that in a man.

Eve_Dublin

I guess people who let themselves be treated like that again and again don´t think much of themselves and I guess the only thing you can do is sympathise. I know the kinds of women you´re talking about but perhaps it´s something men don´t get to see but a lot of the time these girls have all kinds of issues that come out during "girly chats". Some women have very warped opinions of themselves and their role in a relationship. I know a girl who lives here who is absolutely lovely but she was seeing this guy for a while who treated her like crap and it came to a head at a party I was at a few weeks ago. He came along with all his idiot friends and completely ignored her, made fun of her and treated her like she was nothing. It was horrendous to see. I gave her a bit of a pep talk in the toilet and she went out and told him to feck off but even after she did this, she told me how bad she felt for talking to him that way and he wasn´t that bad a guy at all (the guy was a total cok). This girl didn´t like herself very much and I guess it´s hard to see that sometimes in a world where people are supposed to be confident and self-assured and anything less is not really tolerated. It´s not as easy for everyone else as it is for us people with thicker skins.

Darthhoob

i'm a woman and i feel this way too, but then i look back to when i was clingy and stupid and had no self esteem and was one of them :eek: lol

i see it from men too though! just as much! they just dont talk about it as often (least not with other men it seems)

sajama

Hi OP

I definitely think misogynist is the wrong word.

Speaking as a woman I feel a lot of the same things that you have mentioned - when I see other girls fall into the same traps, don't learn from mistakes etc.

I've gone through different emotions towards those kind of people/women:
a) I used to be sympathetic towards them;
b) Then I thought, ah come on, why are they putting themselves in those situations etc.;
c) Now I just feel indifferent - I just let them be and don't think about it much.

I don't know which is the better outlook to have, but I'm sure there has to be lots of people feeling the same way - it's is just the irrationality of human beings. And of course everyone has their insecurities.

But it has crossed my mind that I think I'm "better" than them.

Then there's the chance that maybe I'm one of them and I just haven't fallen head over heels yet lol

LegacyUser

One question OP.
What was your relationship with your mother like?

trio

Furthermore, I can feel contempt rising in me when I read women talking about men online. For instance when people say "I should really know better, he keeps hurting me but I can't quit him." Why do you love him if he keeps hurting you? Is it a case of only getting "addicted" to a male if he's treating you like ****? The little anecdotes from men about their experience with ignorant women insulting them on nights out get to me too. Some of the stories I've read about downright horrific women are absolutely horrifying.

Perhaps you should step away from these pages for a while.

I only come on here about once a month now - the reason? I started getting kinda bothered about humanity in general.

A lot of people who ask for advice are in very f*'d up situations, and yes, a lot are "Why do I stay with him/her when they're a psycho".

And then you start wondering what kinda of similar stuff is going on behind the doors in your own street. And then you realise you're seeing people through the prism of basically, Problem Pages.

Reading Relationship problems always freak you out a bit. My OH actually said to me "I want you to stop reading those peoples problems" because I'd actually come to bed really upset and frustrated with some woman on the Internet I didn't even know because she wouldn't leave her horrible boyfriend.

The truth? Most women are just like me - normal self-esteem, nice person. Pretty well-balanced and happy to give and take.

What's going on behind the doors on my street? Maybe one or two unhappy relationships, but not ALL of them!

So maybe back away from the personal stuff online for a while. I can come on here now once a month or so and not think for a moment it's proportional out in the real world.

LegacyUser

trio wrote: »

Perhaps you should step away from these pages for a while.

I only come on here about once a month now - the reason? I started getting kinda bothered about humanity in general.

A lot of people who ask for advice are in very f*'d up situations, and yes, a lot are "Why do I stay with him/her when they're a psycho".

And then you start wondering what kinda of similar stuff is going on behind the doors in your own street. And then you realise you're seeing people through the prism of basically, Problem Pages.

Reading Relationship problems always freak you out a bit. My OH actually said to me "I want you to stop reading those peoples problems" because I'd actually come to bed really upset and frustrated with some woman on the Internet I didn't even know because she wouldn't leave her horrible boyfriend.

The truth? Most women are just like me - normal self-esteem, nice person. Pretty well-balanced and happy to give and take.

What's going on behind the doors on my street? Maybe one or two unhappy relationships, but not ALL of them!

So maybe back away from the personal stuff online for a while. I can come on here now once a month or so and not think for a moment it's proportional out in the real world.

I think you're right. These constant woe is me stories are really starting to damage my perspective of the real world. I know that in reality people are not as idiotic as they seem to be online. I enjoy being online though, I prefer it because I feel physical barriers are non-existent online and I can discuss things without stress or pressure.

One question OP.
What was your relationship with your mother like?

Ah I love my mother, she's great. She's one of the few who make me feel good about myself. One minor issue I would have is that I feel she wrapped me up in cotton wool a bit too much when I was a teenager but that's it/

Elle Collins

misogynist wrote: »

...I can feel my ego growing, I can feel myself judging women and say "Yes, I'm better than all of you." I'm usually not one to generalise but when I say I've never met a woman that made me think otherwise I am being absolutely honest.

Well I can't muster up any sympathy for your predicament. Given that since you have never once met a woman who convinced you that women generally are anything but fools, you clearly must insist on putting yourself in the situation of mixing with female fools on a continual basis.

misogynist wrote: »

All I can think is "Serves you right for putting yourself in the situation ONCE AGAIN."

My sentiments entirely.

Nevyn

Elle Collins
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Thaedydal