Why the Irish Railway system (as currently operated) is finished.

Judgement Day

A new thread on an old theme but I would like to hear what others think on this subject. I have been preaching about the increasing irrelevance of the railways (outside of Greater Dublin) to the majority of Irish people and the desertion of rail in favour of road by other 'state' companies serves to illustrate this. No state company (including CIE/IE) now uses rail for any purpose - as far as I know. An Post's decision to move to a road based distribution system in 1994 was a major blow and even now it's difficult to see the rationale behind the move to the 'more flexible' road option. Remember An Post is the company that completely modernised the mail/rail system at Connolly Station/Sheriff Street shortly before moving to road; the same company that introduced, at great expense, the SDS parcels service before having to admit failure an reintegrate it back into An Post with 270 consequent job losses and financial costs to the state - €28 million in just five years. Clearly another state company with its head where the sun don't shine! Now An Post are adding to their road fleet according to their latest 'in-house' Postnews magazine see below. The cost of this is not mentioned but can well be imagined. Green Party Communications Minister, Eamon Ryan, is plastered all over the same magazine and I was left wondering does it even occur to him that moving back to rail for An Post and other state companies should be a priority to save money, green house gas emissions, congestion etc.etc.....

Cookie_Monster

I though post levels were way way down. I wonder how an post can justify buying these?

they don't look as big as the Tesco, argos or M&S double decker trailers either, I wonder if they are.

JHMEG

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I though post levels were way way down. I wonder how an post can justify buying these?=

Well their CEO is on a package of over half a million euro a year, so he must know what he's doing.

Judgement Day

JHMEG wrote: »

Well their CEO is on a package of over half a million euro a year, so he must know what he's doing.

You forgot the :rolleyes: at the end of your sentence! Can anybody explain what the CEO of a state company does to justify such an outrageous salary? How many letters and parcels does he deliver? Surely if properly set-up the postal service would largely run itself and the amount of work for a CEO would be very limited?

topper75

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I though post levels were way way down.

You are thinking of letters replaced by e-mail. Think parcels.

E-retail is a growth area and will remain so. You can virtually deliver software and and mp3s on the net, but all else must be shipped physically.

DWCommuter

Will those trucks fit in the port tunnel?

Judgement Day

The RTE guide used to be moved by rail - the last time I would have noticed this would have been the mid-1980s - I wondered what happened here? The Dept.of Education used to send the Leaving Cert Examination boxes by rail. The ESB used to have pole depots at many stations and their poles were delivered by rail to these locations. Bord na Mona used to despatch peat moss products from its Kilberry factory in County Kildare via a direct siding loading facility, and in more recent times they used to send briquettes to Dublin from Littleton briquette factory via Thurles station. Now CIE/IE have gone to great lengths to design passenger trains with no capacity for parcels/newspapers/examination boxes/bicycles - I suppose we should be grateful that they included wheels and seats. I imagine that if it were checked out, the vast myriad of state and semi-state agencies use private couriers for all their parcels/letters etc. I know since the demise of Fastrack this is now unavoidable but how many of them were using couriers long before the ending of the service? TD's are paid all sorts of expenses for travel and they should be obliged to use the rail services wherever possible.
As I say, the Irish railway system is becoming increasingly irrelevant to the majority of the population, and unless a radical overhaul is urgently undertaken some daft knob like Dempsey is going to be able to legitimately close the whole shooting match down one day.

DWCommuter

Judgement Day wrote: »

The RTE guide used to be moved by rail - the last time I would have noticed this would have been the mid-1980s - I wondered what happened here? The Dept.of Education used to send the Leaving Cert Examination boxes by rail. The ESB used to have pole depots at many stations and their poles were delivered by rail to these locations. Bord na Mona used to despatch peat moss products from its Kilberry factory in County Kildare via a direct siding loading facility, and in more recent times they used to send briquettes to Dublin from Littleton briquette factory via Thurles station. Now CIE/IE have gone to great lengths to design passenger trains with no capacity for parcels/newspapers/examination boxes/bicycles - I suppose we should be grateful that they included wheels and seats. I imagine that if it were checked out, the vast myriad of state and semi-state agencies use private couriers for all their parcels/letters etc. I know since the demise of Fastrack this is now unavoidable but how many of them were using couriers long before the ending of the service? TD's are paid all sorts of expenses for travel and they should be obliged to use the rail services wherever possible.
As I say, the Irish railway system is becoming increasingly irrelevant to the majority of the population, and unless a radical overhaul is urgently undertaken some daft knob like Dempsey is going to be able to legitimately close the whole shooting match down one day.

To answer your question about couriers. All the organisations you mention use them and at great expense. In fact in the final days of fastrack a private courier was contracted to run a lot of the services - "FASTRUCK". Today if CIE need to get something to any rail served destination, it is sent by private courier.

Judgement Day

A point I meant to raise before concerns GLS (General Logistics Systems Ireland) - who are they? Who owns them? And, why when I visited the Fastrack office in Waterford station, about two years ago, were their leaflets on the counter but NO Fastrack info whatsoever? Come on DW you must have the low down on this.

Sponge Bob

GLS have operated in Ireland for around 5 or 6 years. They are OWNED by Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth honest !

The Royal Mail Parcel Division

Cookie_Monster

DWCommuter wrote: »

Will those trucks fit in the port tunnel?

why wouldn't they? there are no trucks* in Ireland that don't.


*legal road going 40ft artics before someone posts up something obscure

topper75 wrote: »

You are thinking of letters replaced by e-mail. Think parcels.

E-retail is a growth area and will remain so. You can virtually deliver software and and mp3s on the net, but all else must be shipped physically.

I'm sure I read that it was overall traffic, maybe not though.

helimachoptor

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I though post levels were way way down. I wonder how an post can justify buying these?

they don't look as big as the Tesco, argos or M&S double decker trailers either, I wonder if they are.

They're far far bigger, i've seen a tesco one and an post one side by side, An post is much bigger.

Cookie_Monster

Tesco DD carry 75 cages, and post 57. Though they may not be the same size cage...

75 vs 45 in standard = 66% bigger

57 vs 39 in standard = 46% bigger

depends on cage sizes and how much free space is un-used though...

Dravokivich

Irsh railways aren't finished... I go to work by rail becuase Dublin Bus doesn't have a direct route from Carpenterstown to Leixlip... it's doing damn fine by me and about 600 other people everyday...

Judgement Day

Dravokivich wrote: »

Irsh railways aren't finished... I go to work by rail becuase Dublin Bus doesn't have a direct route from Carpenterstown to Leixlip... it's doing damn fine by me and about 600 other people everyday...

If you will note from the second line of my OP: A new thread on an old theme but I would like to hear what others think on this subject. I have been preaching about the increasing irrelevance of the railways (outside of Greater Dublin)

highnc

Judgement Day wrote: »

If you will note from the second line of my OP: A new thread on an old theme but I would like to hear what others think on this subject. I have been preaching about the increasing irrelevance of the railways (outside of Greater Dublin)

i'm noting that none of this thread has been about your question!! maybe he means terminate all trains in Maynooth then and forget about the rest of the line!!

corktina

I think JD means that any semblance of management is finished, if they cant come up with initiatives to improve the network as it stands. Im sure private enterprise would come up with loads of ideas, as would members of this board.

It would surely give freight on rail its only chance of a revival if Government dicatated that all feasible governmental-type traffic was routed on to the Intercity network (ie An post and RTE guide as above)

foggy_lad

i am just waiting to see what standard all those bus transfers are going to reach over the weekend!

as for rail travel in ireland well it is simple really, the country has changed so much since all the original tracks were laid and irish rail aka CIE and all the really old british railway companies before CIE have been relaying new track onto old track bed going to the same towns etc while ignoring the fact that they have trains that now run through areas with no people or industry to even provide work for a freight service, and at the same time there are populated areas with no train service at all or one that is too far out of the town to make it practical! they are providing a rail service for 19th century ireland but we are now in the 20th century.

Zebra3

foggy_lad wrote: »

they are providing a rail service for 19th century ireland but we are now in the 20th century.

It can defo feel like that at times.

DWCommuter

Zebra3 wrote: »

It can defo feel like that at times.

I'll correct it for him.

We are providing a 20th century rail service on a 19th century network.:D

IE don't know what 21st century is.

foggy_lad

the only thing wrong with the railway network in ireland is the map! Trains are going places with no population and no potential for improvement while other areas are starved of rail services when they have thousands of bodies that would kill for a service.

Dig up all that old track to places that used to be because they are dead and forgotten! and lay new track where it is needed instead of living in the all but forgotten past with your heads stuck in a cloud of loco smoke.

hinault

Trains are packed here in Thurles with commuters to and from Dublin and Cork especially.
(I live very close to the railway line).

corktina

Dublin to Cork line popular alright but it will be a diminishing passenger count from here on in now the M8 is open throughout any minute.

GM071class

I wouldn't be too sure about building new lines, But I do agree that some lines are pointless due to population growth, and contraction in certain area's.

That said the network was hacked to bits in the days of Todd Andrews, and hasn't really recovered since from some of the stupid descisions made then.

I suppose Rail-freight is an important factor in alot of this. IÉ have let freight flows go, from the Gargle and Cement to oil and everything in between, and I don't think they really want them back.

Ideally I'd like to see a company along the lines of the EWS, coming in and giving the market a good shake up. They could offer the services of railfreight in a much better way that IÉ ever want to.


I deally they could run container Freight flows from Dublin Port or Belfast to Irelands main container terminal in Waterford on the (hopefully not) soon to be mothballed South Wexford Line via Wexford 7 Rosslare strand.
It'd be quicker, and wouldn't impact passenger services as much, and justify keeping the WEX-WAT line operational.

corktina

EWS are history....DBschenker now isnt it?

why would anyone want to take containers from Dublin or Belfast to Waterford (or vice versa)when there are already ports there? Freight by rail in Ireland is a non-starter because the haul to the nearest port is always so short...