A wee bit of help for a Dad to be....

DavidGinola

My wife is 7 months pregnant with our first. She drives a Peugeot 206coupe, and I have a 08 Commercial Discovery. Neither are practical options for a family.

Her car isn't worth much; it's pretty wrecked and not the best really. The Discovery is on HP with 2 years to go. It's in very good nick with very low mileage(really only had it for tax purposes with a previous business) and has a lot of extras in it. Has a full service history with a dealer aswell and a year left in the warranty. I love my Land Rover; but it's just not practical to keep anymore with a little one on the way and no real use for it anymore. Ideally we'd love a passenger Discovery but the road tax is just cruel on the newer ones and justifying it is hard to be honest. So we said we would look at perhaps a long wheel base passenger Defender. Still a Land Rover, but road tax not as pricey, but a nice bus all the same with lots of space for kids.

So guys, can you help me with my options please as I have no idea what to do. My plan is to buy out the HP agreement(I've no interest in handing the vehicle back; it's a waste given the money I've spent on it so far) and it can be done relatively reasonably.

So once I've done that do I:

A)Sell the Commercial Disco privately and use the proceeds towards a nearly new Defender(anything between 06 and 09)

B)Having a good relationship with the LR dealership(this my third Disco from them) trade the commercial for a nearly new Defender from them.

C)Do the same as but go up North to do it(assuming it possible to do that with Southern plates?)

D)Do the same as A) but bring the Defender in from the UK(would the duty be cruel in this case??)

E)Convert the Commercial that I have into a passenger Disco

Cheers in advance for the advice guys:)

Zubeneschamali

DavidGinola wrote: »

a long wheel base passenger Defender. Still a Land Rover, but road tax not as pricey, but a nice bus all the same with lots of space for kids.

Nice bus? It's a million year old fossil tractor!

There's no excuse for having one of these dinosaurs unless you spend more time off road than on.

colm_mcm

A defender is hardly the thing to bring a kid around in.

Why bother with another LR if you have no use for the Discovery?

Anan1

I have to agree, there are few places i'd be less happy putting a newborn baby than in a Defender. Do you need offroad ability? If so, to what degree? How much would you be happy spending on a new car?

Mr Benevolent

Terrible cars. Get something reliable unless you want to shove other cars out of the way on school run.

Cuddlesworth

I would prefer to be in a super mini then a Defender in a crash. They fold inwards on impact.

saltcoats

never mind those two fools before if you want a defender go for it.
they are probably a couple of tarted up civic drivers.
me and my better half are expecting our third child in November and i am hoping to get a discovery 7 seater just for the space and the 03/04 models are the ones i will look at ( landmark spec ) half the price in he uk inc vrt. driving a bmw 520i at present but wont be enough room for three child seats so it has to go never really took to it anyway.
so go ahead and get the defender you know the Landys so no surprises
look up VRT calculator for costs of importing from the north you will be surprised at how cheap they work out. and good luck with the baby:)

R.O.R

A Defender is one of the worst vehicles I've ever driven on a road, and I've driven some heaps. Fantastic vehicles for the purpose they were designed for, but they weren't designed for bringing newborns around on the road.

A decent Estate would be a much better allrounder, unless you need the 4x4 and ground clearance.

DavidGinola

I'm not so interested in why not to buy a Defender guys if I'm honest:)

I'd just like some advice as to what best to do in my situation.

I do have some use for a 4x4, even now; boats, surfing, fishing etc with minor off roading but not proper stuff; and kids aren't going to change that aspect of our lives. But I would anticipate that whatever we buy we would always keep and never sell; which is another reason why a Defender is jumping out at us. They are simple good 4x4s that last.

I just don't know what to do with this damn Commercial of mine. There's a bit of cash to spend but nothing hugely crazy either. I guess I'm interested in selling my own for as much as I can whilst buying the best Defender that I can in the cheapest way. Obviously it's never going to be 'cheap' to do this; but you know what I mean.

colm_mcm

I can't think of any reason other than off roading to have a Defender, I'm a fan of 4X4s but if I was usuing something as a family wagon then I'd be thinking of something a bit more safe and refined.
I agree with you saltcoats, that if the OP likes the Defender then it's worth considering, but the Disco and Defender are two completely different machines, and the fact that the OP didn't buy a Defender commercial in the first place would suggest to me that the only reason it's being considered is the badge and the fact that it's within budget.

EDIT: written before the OP reposted.

I'd check the balance on the finance and get some valuations on the Disco first then see if it's worth keeping it for the rough-and-tumble and perhaps getting a regular car for the family stuff.
Commercial jeeps aren't worth the sort of money they were so you may find it might be worth hanging onto it till the finance is paid.

mickdw

Defender, are ya serious? You said you have no use for the discovery, so what use for a defender? The only people I see using them are ESB ubcontractors who need serious off road capability.

pburns

Have you ever driven a Defender:eek:? Even it's supporters would acknowledge it's a tractor on tarmac. Is image really that important to you?

Bite the bullet and get rid of the 206CC for something a little more practical OR chop the Discovery for a saloon or estate (A6 or 5-series for example or something like this)

Unless you're a forester or hill-farmer it should be anything but a Defender!

DavidGinola

The only reason that I never bought a Defender Commercial was because at the time it was easier to buy a Discovery Commercial; simple as.

This is a vehicle we are looking at keeping for the rest of our lives; a practical 4X4 that can happily sit in the driveway for the rest of our days even alongside an estate and a supermini or whatever; that we can use when we want to; taking the family surfing for the weekend or driving down fields to a pier or something; or towing a boat when needed; or a horse if our children become that way inclined. A sort of fun family utility vehicle that we'll drive into the ground:)

Perhaps it is a notion but I must say it appeals to me greatly; if there was a relatively economical way of doing it

Anan1

DavidGinola wrote: »

I'd just like some advice as to what best to do in my situation.

From what you've given us so far, i'd say sell the Disco and buy a Subaru Outback. It'll do all you want it to do, and with far greater comfort, safety, and reliablity than a Defender.

DavidGinola

Anan1 wrote: »

From what you've given us so far, i'd say sell the Disco and buy a Subaru Outback. It'll do all you want it to do, and with far greater comfort, safety, and reliablity than a Defender.

I'm sure the Subaru Outback are lovely but I really don't want to look at one for the rest of my days and I can't see my kids looking at it with any great delight either.

Growing up my grandad had a Range Rover(pre-swanky RR days) and as kids we just loved it; it was so much fun. We thought it was the coolest thing. Even when he'd arrive at school for us and it was manky dirty inside and out from his farm we still thought it was the coolest thing, even my fussy sister. That jeep put a smile on everybodies face.

I want that for my kids; and I don't think you get that from a Subaru Outback; I really don't. Plus I'd be slow to move from LR anyway. An Older passenger Discovery would be an option too I guess; I just can't see that aging aswell as something like the Defender tho. The older Defenders still looks great even today; but even the Discovery2 looks a bit manky nowadays. Maybe I am a dreamer now that I'm settled lol, but if theres a good way to do this I'd like to do it.

Anan1

Don't get me wrong, I think a Defender's cool too. It's just far too dangerous for my child.:)

Gregor Samsa

In fairness, the OP knows what he wants. He just want's to know the best way of going about getting it. However...

DavidGinola wrote: »

I do have some use for a 4x4, even now; boats, surfing, fishing etc with minor off roading but not proper stuff; and kids aren't going to change that aspect of our lives.

Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! 2 surfboards, 2 kayaks, 4 dive tanks and a box full of wetsuits in my shed says you're in for some shock!

Congratulations, and best of luck with the new arrival* by the way.

(*No, I don't mean the Defender)

Anan1

phutyle wrote: »

In fairness, the OP knows what he wants. He just want's to know the best way of going about getting it.

That much is simple, just price up all the options and see which works out better.;)

Theanswers

You have a nice discovery just by a set of seats up north and throw them in!!! Ah no, seriously price the VRT on your current car as a passenger. Its much nicer than the Defender, and alot safer. Plus I think you'd find it very hard to downgrade to an older discovery as they are nothing compared to the new one!
You should pick up seats for 200-300 unless you already have them from when you bought it, small job to put them back where they belong, not sitting in some shed but in a CAR!!

2 Espressi

I'm in a pretty similar situation to the OP, we've a van (well, it's hers) and a 2 seater, but we'll lose a packet on trading the van in for a car, and there's no way I'm getting rid of the MX5.

You'd be better off hanging onto the Disco, it'll cost more to replace it. You'll get no value for a 2 year old commerical jeep. Your LR dealer will only do so much for you, no matter how good a customer you have been. Will your Mrs be happy driving a Defender CC or SW? Has she tested one? She'll be doing most of the babyhauling early on if you're at work and she's at home with Junior.

Trade the 206 for something with 4 doors and 4 seats instead.

R.O.R

Theanswers wrote: »

You have a nice discovery just by a set of seats up north and throw them in!!! Ah no, seriously price the VRT on your current car as a passenger. Its much nicer than the Defender, and alot safer. Plus I think you'd find it very hard to downgrade to an older discovery as they are nothing compared to the new one!
You should pick up seats for 200-300 unless you already have them from when you bought it, small job to put them back where they belong, not sitting in some shed but in a CAR!!

Is it really a small job after the seat belt mounting points and the seat mounting points have been welded up? The rear seats are also permanantly destroyed when NVD do the official conversions. And the rear windows would need to be re-enabled. Anything else missing?

That's not to mention the VRT that would be owing on the vehicle after conversion to a passenger vehicle.

hoodie6029

OP, this is just my two cents but sentimentality or what your kids will think of it are the last reasons to buy a car that you need for practial reasons.

Get whatever car you want but just make sure that'll work for you and you won't lose a bucketload of money if you have to trade it in six months for something different when it doesn't work.

If you need a LR for occasional use why not get an old Series 3 LR or 110, they still run well and are on cheap tax and insurance.

mailforkev

Freelander 2 perhaps?

You will be in for some shock coming from a Disco 3 to a Defender. I even know an ex-service manager in a LR dealership who hated the Defender.

alias no.9

One thing to be aware of with a LWB passenger defender, some of them seat 10 (driver + 9 passengers) so it's technically a minibus and you can't drive it with a B license.
I know when the congestion charging came in in London, some canny people used this loophole to avoid congestion charges as minibusses were exempt. I'm not sure if this has been changed.

Vertakill

R.O.R wrote: »

Is it really a small job after the seat belt mounting points and the seat mounting points have been welded up? The rear seats are also permanantly destroyed when NVD do the official conversions. And the rear windows would need to be re-enabled. Anything else missing?

That's not to mention the VRT that would be owing on the vehicle after conversion to a passenger vehicle.

I wonder does the VRT that's owed scale down now considering the jeep is a lot older than it was initially and the OMSP must've plummeted? If it does, then it might not be a lot of money at all.

Also, seats are destroyed in Ireland yea, but they seem to have a rake load in N.Ireland for one reason or another. I got a nice set of the new shape Celica leather seats for my last car for next to nothing and they were spotless.

Shane732

DavidGinola wrote: »

I'm sure the Subaru Outback are lovely but I really don't want to look at one for the rest of my days and I can't see my kids looking at it with any great delight either.

Growing up my grandad had a Range Rover(pre-swanky RR days) and as kids we just loved it; it was so much fun. We thought it was the coolest thing. Even when he'd arrive at school for us and it was manky dirty inside and out from his farm we still thought it was the coolest thing, even my fussy sister. That jeep put a smile on everybodies face.

I want that for my kids; and I don't think you get that from a Subaru Outback; I really don't. Plus I'd be slow to move from LR anyway. An Older passenger Discovery would be an option too I guess; I just can't see that aging aswell as something like the Defender tho. The older Defenders still looks great even today; but even the Discovery2 looks a bit manky nowadays. Maybe I am a dreamer now that I'm settled lol, but if theres a good way to do this I'd like to do it.

Go for a passenger Discovery as opposed to a Defender you'd be nuts to buy one of them with a child on the way. Plus your children would grow up to hate you for having a Defender. Believe me your children would much prefer to be getting into a 206 Coupe than a Defender plus the 206 Coupe would be much safer unless you intend to bring your children off-roading on a regular basis.

Also, personally I have my doubts that any child would be too interested about coming out from school and getting into a Discovery these days. It isn't exactly the most exciting jeep to look at plus unless you load it up with extra's it's pretty basic. The 1960's are gone.

If you're sticking with a Jeep (which would be the wrong option) go the whole hog and get a Range Rover Sport. Otherwise go for a nice saloon (this would be the right option).

colm_mcm

Shane732 wrote: »

Believe me your children would much prefer to be getting into a 206 Coupe than a Defender plus the 206 Coupe would be much safer unless you intend to bring your children off-roading on a regular basis.

Haha! have you seen the rear seats in a 206cc?

Theanswers

R.O.R wrote: »

Is it really a small job after the seat belt mounting points and the seat mounting points have been welded up? The rear seats are also permanantly destroyed when NVD do the official conversions. And the rear windows would need to be re-enabled. Anything else missing?

That's not to mention the VRT that would be owing on the vehicle after conversion to a passenger vehicle.

If the jeep was bought in the north, then you already have the seats. Otherwise you can buy as another poster said there not expencive. Also the LR dealer may have some.
It's depends on who did the conversion but either way it really isnt a hugh job to reconvert the yok, If revenue done it... It takes around 3 hours.

If it just a 'normal' lad that bought and done the conversion sometimes it can take under an hour.
Plenty of jeeps just have floor bolted up.
It really isnt a big job.

Anan1

Shane732 wrote: »

Otherwise go for a nice saloon (this would be the right option).

A saloon won't do all the stuff the OP wants to do, though. This is why I suggested an awd estate.

Theanswers

Vertakill wrote: »

I wonder does the VRT that's owed scale down now considering the jeep is a lot older than it was initially and the OMSP must've plummeted? If it does, then it might not be a lot of money at all.

Also, seats are destroyed in Ireland yea, but they seem to have a rake load in N.Ireland for one reason or another. I got a nice set of the new shape Celica leather seats for my last car for next to nothing and they were spotless.

The reasons why the have rakes of seats up north is when people buy commercial up there they take the seats out and keep them. Remember we are one of the only countries in europe where this sort of **** goes on in order to buy something at cost price!

Anyways they usually throw them in the back when you buy the car incase you want to put them in later! or resell it in the north as passenger.

R.O.R

Theanswers wrote: »

If the jeep was bought in the north, then you already have the seats. Otherwise you can buy as another poster said there not expencive. Also the LR dealer may have some.
It's depends on who did the conversion but either way it really isnt a hugh job to reconvert the yok, If revenue done it... It takes around 3 hours.

If it just a 'normal' lad that bought and done the conversion sometimes it can take under an hour.
Plenty of jeeps just have floor bolted up.
It really isnt a big job.

If the conversion is done properly, as is likely in this case as I'd say the Disco in question is an Irish sourced commercial, then it's a big job to re-convert back to a passenger.

They don't just unscrew and plug the hole for the seat belt anchor, it's physically welded over. If someone were to re-passenger an official Irish conversion I'd be wanting a safety certificate to show all the new anchor points are safe.

Theanswers

R.O.R wrote: »

If the conversion is done properly, as is likely in this case as I'd say the Disco in question is an Irish sourced commercial, then it's a big job to re-convert back to a passenger.

They don't just unscrew and plug the hole for the seat belt anchor, it's physically welded over. If someone were to re-passenger an official Irish conversion I'd be wanting a safety certificate to show all the new anchor points are safe.

Yes, but it can be done... with a simple number of power tools all of the above mentioned problems can be resolved. Plus a safety cert isnt that hard to get!!

caprilicious

Just a suggestion OP, but what if you traded for a crewcab 110 defender?
Its still classed as a commercial so tax wouldn't be as painful to tax as a passenger.

You would still have the tub back for all your bits and bobs.

We got a quote to get a commercial converted in a garage & I think it was about a grand, that was to go from a passenger to a commercial so I'm guessing it might cost the same if not more to convert commercial to passenger + VRT.

I love Landys & have had a few defenders, the only main drawback I could see is they're quite a high 4x4 to get in and out of but if you're tall that wont be an issue (I'm a short ar$e )

My brother in law has one now & he drove me to Dublin & back (4 hour round trip) when I was 8/9 months pregnant & it was suprisingly comfy. He has a 110.

I think you'll stand to get more money selling privately but there are a lot of tyre kickers out there at the moment, if you have a good relationship with your local LR garage a trade in might be the way to go.

I bought a few cars from the UK before they changed the VRT to base it on the emissions, I think if you bring in a passenger 4x4 you'll be fleeced.
My husband wanted to get a Range Rover & thought it might be cheaper buying from UK but the VRT cancels out any savings to be made. At least that's what we found when we went looking.

If its a landy you want I'd stick with it, I agree with you, the older disco's do look aged now but there's something timeless about the Defender.

Another option might be to test the water by advertising your Discovery as interested in a swap on donedeal.ie/adverts.ie or similar.
We used it successfully when my husband wasn't having luck selling his car privately last year.


Best of luck to you and your partner on your new arrival

Ferris

caprilicious wrote: »

Just a suggestion OP, but what if you traded for a crewcab 110 defender?
Its still classed as a commercial so tax wouldn't be as painful to tax as a passenger.

You would still have the tub back for all your bits and bobs.

Or you could just trade the disco against a Nissan Navarra. Having driven both jeeps the Navarra is way easier to live with. I even think it has Isofix in the rear seats for the carseat.

pajero12

Shane732 wrote: »

Go for a passenger Discovery as opposed to a Defender you'd be nuts to buy one of them with a child on the way. Plus your children would grow up to hate you for having a Defender. Believe me your children would much prefer to be getting into a 206 Coupe than a Defender plus the 206 Coupe would be much safer unless you intend to bring your children off-roading on a regular basis.

Also, personally I have my doubts that any child would be too interested about coming out from school and getting into a Discovery these days. It isn't exactly the most exciting jeep to look at plus unless you load it up with extra's it's pretty basic. The 1960's are gone.

If you're sticking with a Jeep (which would be the wrong option) go the whole hog and get a Range Rover Sport. Otherwise go for a nice saloon (this would be the right option).

Not everyone has your kinda money:D

Theanswers

caprilicious wrote: »

Just a suggestion OP, but what if you traded for a crewcab 110 defender?
Its still classed as a commercial so tax wouldn't be as painful to tax as a passenger.

You would still have the tub back for all your bits and bobs.

We got a quote to get a commercial converted in a garage & I think it was about a grand, that was to go from a passenger to a commercial so I'm guessing it might cost the same if not more to convert commercial to passenger + VRT.

I love Landys & have had a few defenders, the only main drawback I could see is they're quite a high 4x4 to get in and out of but if you're tall that wont be an issue (I'm a short ar$e )

My brother in law has one now & he drove me to Dublin & back (4 hour round trip) when I was 8/9 months pregnant & it was suprisingly comfy. He has a 110.

I think you'll stand to get more money selling privately but there are a lot of tyre kickers out there at the moment, if you have a good relationship with your local LR garage a trade in might be the way to go.

I bought a few cars from the UK before they changed the VRT to base it on the emissions, I think if you bring in a passenger 4x4 you'll be fleeced.
My husband wanted to get a Range Rover & thought it might be cheaper buying from UK but the VRT cancels out any savings to be made. At least that's what we found when we went looking.

If its a landy you want I'd stick with it, I agree with you, the older disco's do look aged now but there's something timeless about the Defender.

Another option might be to test the water by advertising your Discovery as interested in a swap on donedeal.ie/adverts.ie or similar.
We used it successfully when my husband wasn't having luck selling his car privately last year.


Best of luck to you and your partner on your new arrival

I recommend doing the conversion yourself. go out and look at your 4x4, theres not alot to be done to change it either way.

caprilicious

Ferris wrote: »

Or you could just trade the disco against a Nissan Navarra. Having driven both jeeps the Navarra is way easier to live with. I even think it has Isofix in the rear seats for the carseat.

The isofix would be a major bonus & the Navarra look nice but I would google 'Nissan Navarra engine problem'- lots of threads about con rods busting out of engine at low mileage, that would make me a bit iffy about them.
Also if you go to donedeal there's a lot of them for sale with blown engines/needing engine replaced because of it :eek:
Shame because they're a lovely looking jeep.

If you could do conversion on your disco it'd be handy alright especially if you could incorporate an isofix anchoring point, makes life a lot easier getting the car seat in and out.

colm_mcm

check out theimplications of changing the Disco to passenger with the finance company if you're not settling the agreement.

PaulKK

OP it seems you're being very sentimental about the defender and landrover here but you have to step back and look at this realistically.

I like the defender too, but at the end of the day its a utility vehicle and very unsuitable for driving babies/kids around in.

My friend has an 06 one and I couldn't get over how low the standard of the interior is, and his has leather! Its like somthing from 1920. It is the ultimate workhorse but its just not designed for general road use.


I would suggest a passenger Pajero/Landcruiser or a good estate like the subaru mentioned earlier which will easily do the towing etc that you may require.

I have driven a Disco commercial and while it is a relatively nice drive for a 4x4 I wouldn't see the loyalty to it that you seem to show. Each to their own though!

Theanswers

colm_mcm wrote: »

check out theimplications of changing the Disco to passenger with the finance company if you're not settling the agreement.

Good point, never thought of that in this case.