Can Pro Nature Groups be trusted?

tomybhoy

We all respect nature at some level depending on our exposure to it throughout our lives, my question is if Pro Nature groups can be trusted in light of recent events coming out of PO BOX 4374 which houses numerous single issue anti groups.
We have seen the staged killing of a hare, we have seen certain groups under the hunt saboteur umbrella applaud international groups which are considered terrorists in their own Countries.
For me, it is plain to see that these groups are doing more harm to nature than good, good conservation requires all stakeholders to take part ownership of a habitat if it is to be successful but these groups under PO BOX 4374 seem intent on causing the near extinction of some species as they have done with the hare in N Ireland.
When you have a small group of people working together for the abolition of all forms of hunting, fishing, shooting, coursing, zoo's, circus's, for me this is anti human interaction with animals which will without a shadow of doubt hurt the animal population ober the medium to long term.

scartman1

I believe the people who are dedicating themselves and their lives to the promotion of Animal Rights, as oppossed to Animal Welfare, are firstly, to put it mildly very misguided, but secondly and more importantly making a career out of it. Vast sums of money are involved via the generation of donations, which are forwarded to their organisations. In Ireland, these monies are channelled through the one PO Box for all the various bodies.
Where these monies go afterwards is not at all transparent.
When money is involved, and particularly the sums involved here, the public have to be very cautious and savvy before donating to such causes. The propoganda of misinformation, demonising, scare tactics, with some extremists resorting to terrorist activities to promote their causes needs to be studied very carefully to get a full and clear picture of the agenda of these people.
The sad reality is that for Animal Welfare, real and positive and sustainable progress in this area is being eroded by the malpractices of the Animal Rights lobby.
The public need to distinguish in their own minds the difference between animal rights and animal welfare. Many think that they are one and the same, they are not.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Firstly, I find it strange that the 2 opening contributors on this joined Boards.ie on the same day and have contributed to all the same threads since. Both have contributed with pro-hunting, pro-coursing posts so enough said.

Secondly, I feel this thread is deliberately designed to cause a row.

Thirdly, this is a Nature and Bird Watching forum. These seems to be a confusion between Pro-Nature, in that people enjoy, respect and promote Nature; as opposed to Animal Welfare or Animal Rights groups.

This forum is apolitical so let's keep it that way.

With that, I'm certainly keeping out of this thread as it's a hiding to nothing. (I'm referring it to Mods as well!)

scartman1

I don't want to start a row but a debate on this issue is important. I don't think the tone of the posts to date is confrontational.

It is correct to state that the Nature and Bird Watching forum may not be the correct position for a thread of his nature and perhaps it could be moved to a Current Affairs forum. None the less I'm sure some people visiting this site may have an interest in this. I did not start the thread by the way and was not involved in placing it on this forum. Should it be moved I would have no objection, but i think that it is a very relevent topic of much interest to many. Perhaps the Moderators could advise?

I hope that you accept my best intentions in this regard. Thank you for your comments.

tomybhoy

I would have thought that nature covered everything TBH.
I have asked a question which I think is very important to nature, the self appointed custodians of the environment are not what they seem in my humble opinion but I would like to hear from others.

stevoman

I was Pm'd before this thread began by Thomboy asking permission that he could start such a thread. I agreed as i was interested to see other people views from a nature standpoint about this current agruement.

I will be moderating it and watching it closely in a fair manner and will NOT be contibuting to it myself as i make no bones about knowing my pastimes and hobbies and interests. If an arguements insues or it gets off track or out of hand i will lock it immediatly.

I will however have to look in to see if both posters are the same.


Stevoman

Edit - Both usernames checked with no IP address, or email matching.

tomybhoy

Thanks Steveoman, I can assure you that I only use my account and do not talk to myself under different usernames.
Your understanding is very much appreciated and rest assured that I will not be taking it off topic in any shape or form.
Thanks Again.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I'm keeping out of the debate but I want to make it clear I did not suggest one and the same person to be involved but that the 2 posters are in cahoots as they have followed each other around the Boards in total harmony, that's all.

Just on a point of order: there are no "self appointed custodians of the environment". There are huge numbers of organisations and individuals interested in and caring for Nature in this country. Why begin a debate about an obscure group most people have never even heard of? They did not claim to be custodians of the environment. They are making clains about animal rights and animal welfare. A much different subject. Please don't try to tie the rest of us to such groups but equally please do not try to set us against such groups when in reality they and we have no relevance to each other.

Apologies Stevoman but I'm deeply unhappy about the tone of this thread and can't see how you don't see it.

tomybhoy

They are not an obscure group for a lot of people who have a great interest in Nature.
I am in no way labelling all groups as being part of this clique, a great many groups and clubs do a massive amount of work in the conservation of habitats for the benefit of all.
I would hope that you can see that I am not having a go at all the great people who work towards a sustainable environment.

This is a small list of the groups woking out of this PO BOX 4374

Afar, Alliance for animal rights....4734
Association of hunt saboteurs....4734
Coalition against the fur trade....4734
Dublin animal rights collective.....4734
Dog rescue Ireland...................4734
SHAC Ireland...........................4734
Anti Bothar campaign................4734

stevoman

okay if this isnt going anywhere fast i think i close it in a while. if anyone else feels the need for it to be opened again they can PM me.

tomybhoy

There is one person who disagree's with the topic Steve, surely discussing a subject in a reasonable manner should be allowed.

stevoman

tomybhoy wrote: »

There is one person who disagree's with the topic Steve, surely discussing a subject in a reasonable manner should be allowed.

being the forum it is on i am going to lock it for the time being and if theres any interest in other wanting to contribute then they can PM and i will open it. Thats the fairest i can be i beleive.