Combined training ?

pgmcpq

So through the summer I will be training for Dublin, and racing some shorter stuff (5k through HMs). I am trying to figure how to do this. Most of the races are on Sunday mornings meaning it's hard to be competitive (I have a few AG wins to defend!) _and_ get the long runs in. I am considering doing e.g. an 5k in the morning, returning home and heading out for a LSR an hour-"ish" later ? Feasible ... or completely nuts ?

Krusty_Clown

I think you'd be looking at adapting your long runs, so they would no longer be as effective, as if you did them standalone. Could you switch your LSRs to mid-week? The 5K races would then be a direct replacement for a tempo session (though a little short and fast), with a couple of warm-up/down miles either side.

macinalli

Last weekend I did the 5 mile RTE race on the Saturday and a 13 mile LSR on the Sunday. Was surprised at how tired I was after the LSR and I think it was mainly due to the race. I'm by no means fast but I did push myself hard on the race and it took a surprising amount out of me. If you do plan on racing hard for the short distance stuff, then I think you should consider Krusty's plan for midweek LSRs.

pgmcpq

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I think you'd be looking at adapting your long runs, so they would no longer be as effective, as if you did them standalone. Could you switch your LSRs to mid-week? The 5K races would then be a direct replacement for a tempo session (though a little short and fast), with a couple of warm-up/down miles either side.

macinalli wrote: »

Last weekend I did the 5 mile RTE race on the Saturday and a 13 mile LSR on the Sunday. Was surprised at how tired I was after the LSR and I think it was mainly due to the race. I'm by no means fast but I did push myself hard on the race and it took a surprising amount out of me. If you do plan on racing hard for the short distance stuff, then I think you should consider Krusty's plan for midweek LSRs.

Thanks for the replies guys.

Yeah ... I will need go give this some more thought. Doing the LSR midweek is tricky - cannot really see myself toddling off to work after 20 miles !!! Though on consideration ... I might try it once and see. Post work would often leave me finishing the run about in the early am - so that's not really on.

Might be able to juggle the schedule around a bit - but based on this I will probably look closely at the schedule and trim back what I want to run. The HMs I can probably fit into the schedule - I will not be 'racing' all of them - just want to complete the series (four to go).

One thing I will do is go for a few 5ks I was less trilled about but have the advantage of being during the week that are during the week.

Krusty_Clown

Like macinalli, I had to do some LSRs after races (usually the day after, but once a few hours later) and the problem is that after racing, you're not going to be running with good 'form', so I would imagine the likelihood of injury sky-rockets. It does give you a significant endurance stimulus though, as you'll likely be running low on energy/glycogen stores (but that just makes it even harder to complete the LSR!).

pgmcpq

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Like macinalli, I had to do some LSRs after races (usually the day after, but once a few hours later) and the problem is that after racing, you're not going to be running with good 'form', so I would imagine the likelihood of injury sky-rockets. It does give you a significant endurance stimulus though, as you'll likely be running low on energy/glycogen stores (but that just makes it even harder to complete the LSR!).

Ugggggh. The running while tired is not such a problem - in fact slowing me down on the LSR might be a good thing. Injury risk is another story. I was wondering if this was a possibility. I have a bit or previous here ..... I did my IT band last November in a similar scenario. I started an LSR the day after a 5k and got to 5 miles .... limped home. At the time I put it down to sloppy post race stretching and after a few months (and a hefty chiro bill) got back. I think I need to schedule the runs so that my LSR is mid week - to date 12 miles is the max I have done before going to work. What's another 4 .. 8 ... sure I can sleep through work anyway. It's unclear anyone would notice.

TFBubendorfer

pgmcpq wrote: »

cannot really see myself toddling off to work after 20 miles !!!

Actually, that's not a problem. It might take some getting used to, but I do all my long runs on midweek mornings. And I have never fallen asleep at my desk.

pgmcpq

Well, my usual routine after an LSR is retire to the bath with a bucket of epsom salts, enough food to feed a horse and a good book !


But seriously - doing an LSR mid week ... would have you up and out at 5am ? Thinking about this it might be doable. I normally aim to get up by 6, run by 7 and hit work by 10.30 am. 10-11 miles is my current morning max. If I could get up at 5 and out by 5.30 .... just maybe this might be doable. I'd miss the post run bath Have to see when the sun comes up these days. I might give a trial run in a week and see how it goes.

PS. TBF - found your blog the other day. Good read - kinda wish I had read it a little earlier.

menoscemo

pgmcpq wrote: »

But seriously - doing an LSR mid week ... would have you up and out at 5am ? Thinking about this it might be doable.

You could also do the LSR after work. I did alot of mine on friday evenings to leave the weekends free.

pgmcpq

menoscemo wrote: »

You could also do the LSR after work. I did alot of mine on friday evenings to leave the weekends free.

Problem would be getting out of work - I'd miss the run more often than I'd make it. Plus it getting dark here by 8ish even in the middle of summer. I hate mornings anyway so runs in the morning never really cause me increased suffering - so I rarely miss them

TFBubendorfer

pgmcpq wrote: »

But seriously - doing an LSR mid week ... would have you up and out at 5am ?

Well ... yes. Or earlier...
I know it sounds nuts, but if you start doing it, you very quickly get used to it. You'll also have to get used to go to bed earlier, though.

pgmcpq wrote:

Problem would be getting out of work - I'd miss the run more often than I'd make it

And that exactly is the greatest advantage of doing it in the morning. You get up and run, and by the time you wake up and start questioning what you're doing, you're already 2 miles down the road.

RedB

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Well ... yes. Or earlier...
I know it sounds nuts, but if you start doing it, you very quickly get used to it. You'll also have to get used to go to bed earlier, though.

OK, I have to ask. How early to bed?

TFBubendorfer

RedB wrote: »

OK, I have to ask. How early to bed?

Depends.
If you go to bed at 10 and get up at 5, that's still 7 hours of sleep.
Though in reality, it's usually closer to 11 for me. And if I get up at 4 .... ok, that's rare.

pgmcpq

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Depends.
If you go to bed at 10 and get up at 5, that's still 7 hours of sleep.
Though in reality, it's usually closer to 11 for me. And if I get up at 4 .... ok, that's rare.

I think once a week skimping on sleep is ok (not ideal - but ok). I think if you are running away from traffic etc where you don't need your wits around you so long as you can stay upright and focus on the physical cues it's ok. Not that I claim any competence at this but that's how a 6am start has worked for me. After that it is a question of how fast you can get out the door. Running before the it starts to get light is still a more of an obstacle for me. It is a curious problem - how to combine racing the short stuff with a marathon pending. I know the training will not be short distance specific ...but if I can pb and get a few local AG placements I can live with that.