Walterstown Castle

Azhrei

I've been trying to find information on this, but I've found absolutely nothing on the Internet. I remember my grandfather, who was one of the co-founders of the Cobh/Great Island Historical Society, telling me about this castle, long disappeared. All that remains of it is a wall.

Walterstown is one of the largest townlands on the island of Cobh, to the east of the island. Opposite the entrance to the East Ferry Marina and the Marlogue Inn is a grey two-story house surrounded by fields, and a few walls. The old wall directly facing the entrance to the marina is supposedly the castle wall. I can't remember what my grandfather said specifically about the castle, but I definitely remember that he said there was one. You may say he was humouring his then ten year-old grandson at the time, but he knew I loved history and he wouldn't have joked about a thing like this.

I was talking to my sister about it yesterday and she said our father told her once that he had been there with a friend, that there are tombs underground beneath the wall. This definitely says that there was some structure there at one time - maybe an old castle ruin was used as a holy building, I don't know. Clearly, with such an old wall, underground tombs and what my grandfather said about a castle, there was something there at one stage. The house built next to the wall belonged to a lovely woman called Nan Mahony, who is dead a good few years now. It passed to her family, I know that, though I don't know if the current owners are called Mahony, if that is any help.

It's not often that the Internet fails to find me some information, but there is absolutely nothing out there about a castle in the townland of Walterstown. I haven't tried any local sources yet, such as the local library (and Cork Library, now that I think of it) or the Historical Society, which I suppose I really should get on to, but I wanted to ask here if anybody knows anything about it. I would love to learn something about whatever used to be there, that is now seemingly long-forgotten.

Dionysus

Azhrei wrote: »

I've been trying to find information on this, but I've found absolutely nothing on the Internet. I remember my grandfather, who was one of the co-founders of the Cobh/Great Island Historical Society, telling me about this castle, long disappeared. All that remains of it is a wall.

Walterstown is one of the largest townlands on the island of Cobh, to the east of the island. Opposite the entrance to the East Ferry Marina and the Marlogue Inn is a grey two-story house surrounded by fields, and a few walls. The old wall directly facing the entrance to the marina is supposedly the castle wall. I can't remember what my grandfather said specifically about the castle, but I definitely remember that he said there was one. You may say he was humouring his then ten year-old grandson at the time, but he knew I loved history and he wouldn't have joked about a thing like this.

I was talking to my sister about it yesterday and she said our father told her once that he had been there with a friend, that there are tombs underground beneath the wall. This definitely says that there was some structure there at one time - maybe an old castle ruin was used as a holy building, I don't know. Clearly, with such an old wall, underground tombs and what my grandfather said about a castle, there was something there at one stage. The house built next to the wall belonged to a lovely woman called Nan Mahony, who is dead a good few years now. It passed to her family, I know that, though I don't know if the current owners are called Mahony, if that is any help.

It's not often that the Internet fails to find me some information, but there is absolutely nothing out there about a castle in the townland of Walterstown. I haven't tried any local sources yet, such as the local library (and Cork Library, now that I think of it) or the Historical Society, which I suppose I really should get on to, but I wanted to ask here if anybody knows anything about it. I would love to learn something about whatever used to be there, that is now seemingly long-forgotten.

Try googling as a phrase (i.e. with double quotes): "walterstown castle" cobh

'Dromgarriff was part of the large Lavallin estate that took in most of Whitechurch. The Lavallins bought the estate around 1630. They were a Norman Catholic family who suffered under Cromwell when they lost their properties in Cork City. The Lavallins supplied several Lord Mayors of Cork in medieval times. They took the Jacobite side in the Williamite wars. Some went abroad and fought as "Wild Geese" in foreign armies. Melchior Lavallin took advantage of the articles of the Treaty of Limerick and held onto his estates. Due to a lengthy and expensive court case they had to sell part of the estate - Walterstown Castle and lands around Cobh.'

Source: http://www.pagenweb.org/~blair/family-sheehan.htm

Azhrei

Thank you for that. Cork Library does seem to have something on the Lavallin family and subsequently the castle (http://libcat.corkcity.ie/ipac20/ipac.jsp?session=12G300P21051Y.1275482&profile=gp&uri=link=3100009~!196760~!3100001~!3100002&aspect=subtab22&menu=search&ri=3&source=~!horizon&term=Walterstown+Castle+%28Cork+County%29.&index=SUBJECT). Hopefully the book has some real information on the building and what happened to it, perhaps even something about the tombs underground.

Edit - found some more information.

Between Ashgrove and the East Ferry stood Walterstown Castle, not a stone of which is left, although its large bawn is still perfect. This castle gave rise to a protracted lawsuit in the last century. The daughter of its last owner having married one of the Puxleys of Dunboy Castle, the latter family now call themselves Lavallen-Puxley. (http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/royal-society-of-antiquaries-of-ireland/journal-of-the-royal-society-of-antiquaries-of-ireland-volume-yr1897-ayo/page-39-journal-of-the-royal-society-of-antiquaries-of-ireland-volume-yr1897-ayo.shtml)

Simarillion

Has a quick search yesterday, but can't find the website this morning for some reason.

Found a bit about the Lavallen family and a Waterstown Castle in Cobh or Queenstown at the time.

Is it possible that the castle is WATERStown rather than WALTERStown ?

Azhrei

No, the townland is called Walterstown, my mother's family has been there for quite a long time, and in fact are still there. The land on which the castle stood is the grounds of a house that belonged to the Mahony family - I'm pretty sure they still own it in fact, but are leasing it out to someone.

I've decided to contact the Great Island Historical Society about it, and when seeking their number I found a listing for them on a site among other such organisations, with a message from Councillor Kieran McCarthy saying that he'd give out contact details to anyone who asked. He replied quickly to my email with -

"...just in terms of the Castle, check out the indexes of the Journal of the Cork Historical and Archaeological Society, Archaeological Inventory of South and East Cork (D. Power) and Castles of County Cork (James N. Healy) - all in Cork City Library and Cork County Library."

Will definitely check out the Cork City Library, but I've no idea where the County Library is? I hope there is at least some image of the castle, perhaps a drawing or something.

ejmaztec

In the 1911 Census, Walterstown doesn't show up, but Waterstown does. Perhaps there was a misprint somewhere along the line?

Are any of your ancestors on this link?

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?surname=&exact=&firstname=&county=Cork&townland=Waterstown&ded=&age=&sex=M&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=&birthplace=&language=&deafdumb=&search=Search&sort=&pageSize=100

Azhrei

Thank you for looking that up! It must be a typo or misprint, because it is definitely Walterstown, and not Waterstown. I'm not sure of my great-grandfather's first name, but Wilson is my grandfather's surname and I know we are related to the Verlings also. It does mention they all lived in the rural part of the island, which is true. My grandfather was born in the early to mid 1920's (it was either 1922 or 1926 - I'll have to ask my mother about it), so his father was probably James.

My great-grandparents lived in a house in what is today Marlogue Wood - some of the bricks can still be seen if you know where to look. My grandfather planted most of the wood and lived in a house at the very start of it, in the parking area (it still belongs to the family and his grandson lives there now).

I'm not sure why it is called Waterstown in the 1911 Census because that book I quoted earlier, the Journal of the Royal Antiquaries of Ireland, is dated from 1897 and calls the area Walterstown.

Edit - I've just finished a conversation on the phone with the Historical Society here and they said they have some information on the castle, but that the best people to talk to about it would be one of the Mahony's I mentioned earlier, who now owns the land, and a good friend of my grandfather's whom the family still knows very well (oddly enough, his surname is Verling!). After mentioning the books Councillor McCarthy mentioned, they also spoke of a Mr. Kerrigan who has information on the castles of Cork Harbour.

I have a lot to look into, then. I hope I can find an image somewhere, and maybe some information on the graves underneath the castle bawn.

ejmaztec

Azhrei wrote: »

Thank you for looking that up! It must be a typo or misprint, because it is definitely Walterstown, and not Waterstown. I'm not sure of my great-grandfather's first name, but Wilson is my grandfather's surname and I know we are related to the Verlings also. It does mention they all lived in the rural part of the island, which is true. My grandfather was born in the early to mid 1920's (it was either 1922 or 1926 - I'll have to ask my mother about it), so his father was probably James.

My great-grandparents lived in a house in what is today Marlogue Wood - some of the bricks can still be seen if you know where to look. My grandfather planted most of the wood and lived in a house at the very start of it, in the parking area (it still belongs to the family and his grandson lives there now).

I'm not sure why it is called Waterstown in the 1911 Census because that book I quoted earlier, the Journal of the Royal Antiquaries of Ireland, is dated from 1897 and calls the area Walterstown.

Edit - I've just finished a conversation on the phone with the Historical Society here and they said they have some information on the castle, but that the best people to talk to about it would be one of the Mahony's I mentioned earlier, who now owns the land, and a good friend of my grandfather's whom the family still knows very well (oddly enough, his surname is Verling!). After mentioning the books Councillor McCarthy mentioned, they also spoke of a Mr. Kerrigan who has information on the castles of Cork Harbour.

I have a lot to look into, then. I hope I can find an image somewhere, and maybe some information on the graves underneath the castle bawn.

There seem to be many places with different spellings, where a name on a map is different to the name on a signpost. :eek:

Azhrei

After paying a visit to the local library here in Cobh, I've unearthed some information that though, while is not much more than I've already found, goes into a little more detail. One of the earlier pages I linked to that had information is the Journal of the Royal Antiquaries of Ireland dated to 1897 - I read a little further as it mentioned other historical curiousities of Cobh, and it mentioned that since the island has only been settled relatively recently compared to the rest of the country, there is not much in the way of historical buildings. From this and all the dates it gave on the pages I read, I dated the castle to the 1600's under the Lavellen family.

From The Old Castles Around Cork Harbour by the Cork Historical and Archaeological Society, dating to either 1914 or 1915, I've found that the castle was actually built earlier by the Barry family.

To the south-east of Ballyvodock Castle, but situated upon the Great Island, about a mile to the south-east from Ballymacshaneroe Castle, stood Walterstown Castle, as to which Dr. Caulfield only briefly wrote, "Smith says a castle formerly stood at Waterstown (sic), which was the chief residence of the Barry family on the Island, of which there only remains now a slight trace, except the Bawn, which is entire, and the walls of the old house of the Lavallings (sic), who succeeded the Barrys."

There is no date given to the building of the castle, but I found mention of it on a site with old records of land ownership (http://sources.nli.ie/Record/PS_UR_021822) that mention it belonged to the Barrymore Barony (of Barryscourt Castle, near Carrigtwohill). The earliest date I can put to it is from this quote, also from the same book I mentioned earlier -

"In the 38th year of Queen Elizabeth's reign, James Water alias Mac J. Watiarig of Ballinwatiarig (ancient name of Walterstown - Azhrei), in the Great Island, Co. Cork, granted the latter place and Kilemuckerie (which is near it) to Morris Ronayne of Cork in a bond for £23; and on a dispute arising between them as to these lands in 1595, they submitted to the award of Alderman Thomas Sarsfield of Cork and Edmond Barry of Ballyregan, gentlemen."

From the Walters family this castle appears to have passed to the Lavallins, who were it's last resident owners.

Interestingly, nobody seems to have any clue what happened to the castle. I quote -

There is not even the slightest tradition as to when this castle was taken down or its materials removed. If it fell down or was blown up, as in the case of Ballyvodock Castle, some fragments of it would have remained. They must, therefore, have been carted away probably to build one or other of the "big" houses at Ashgrove, Belgrove, or East Grove, or possibly Father Harrington's former Academy at Redington, near Walterstown. If a small building like Ballymacshaneroe Castle, its materials, however, would more easily and quickly disappear.

Highly interesting. The book goes on to talk about some of the history of the Walters (supported Perkin Warbeck) and Lavallen families, going into more detail of the lawsuit that arose between Melchior (or Melcher), Patrick and Peter Lavellen and Elinor Gould in the early 18th century, and that although nobody knows what happened to the building, the castle was surely standing at the final end of the lawsuit in 1751. There is no mention anywhere of the supposed graves that my father saw somewhere underneath the bawn, so I will have to get onto him and ask him about it.

I still have several books to have a look at in the city and county libraries, and to ask questions of my grandfather's friend and the current owner of the land, so there is plenty more information to be discovered yet. I suppose I should also contact the Cork Historical and Archaeological Society, and see if they have any more to go on.

ejmaztec

Was it anywhere near, or anything to do this place i.e. Belgrove House, which was a Georgian house demolished in 1954 and a "modern" residence built in its place?
http://martleweb.co.uk/gumbleton/compendium/c37.html

Azhrei

It is very close to Belgrove. If you use Google Earth to find Cobh, then type in Walterstown, you'll see the East Ferry Marina on the coast. Directly opposite the road that leads down to the marina, the house on the grounds of the castle is clearly seen. You can also see the bawn, as a short wall that stretches from the house to the field just south of it.

It's odd that you should mention Belgrove because I just got off the phone with my father, who I mentioned earlier in relation to the graves underneath the bawn. He said there is a single grave down there, covered by a slab. I've no idea what they were doing down there, but they pushed open the slab covering the grave and there are two skeletons inside. Apparently, this is known as Gumpert's (or Gumbert's, not sure) Grave. I don't know if this has anything to do with the castle.

He said down in that room with the grave, there is a passage that leads towards Belgrove, to land now owned by George Butler, upon which sits an old tower. I've been to that tower several times and I believe there is a plaque there set by the last owner of the tower, in memory of her son... it's been a few years, so I can't remember.

None of the documents I've read mention any grave or passage to an old tower a short distance away. My father said the passage is still there today, though very dangerous to travel through. He mentioned someone who surveyed the bawn of the castle a few years ago, so I have yet another person to contact. When I speak to everyone I'll mention the tomb and passage, and also look for any mention of it in the books in the city library.

I'll let you guys know as I go about this. Very interesting stuff!

Azhrei

I've managed to glean a little more information since I last visited here. I spoke to the owner of the land the castle stood on, and he said he doesn't really have any more information than what I already have, but that some of mine is mixed up (understandable since I've only been able to get some scraps here and there from the 'net). He also said that there exists an image of the castle, but that it belongs to the Jesuits in Boston (!), "and therein lies the problem".

He hasn't answered my second email yet, so I don't know what he means by problem. Perhaps he doesn't have any contact details for them, perhaps he doesn't know what to look for - I myself have looked for them on the Internet and found several organisations in Boston alone. I'll let ye know when he replies.

I went out home (to Walterstown) yesterday and my mother gave me a book, A History of Cobh, by Mary Broderick, first published in 1989. My mother told me that Mary Broderick was a member of the Historical Society here, but she doesn't know if she's alive still today. I'm going to see if I can find anything about her, perhaps starting with the Historical Society. If she is still alive, she may know something about the castle - she does give a passing mention of the last Catholic de Barry lord having been killed in their residence on the east part of the island (obviously Walterstown Castle).

I quote from the book -

The Great Island during this period was developing into a community with different branches of the Barry family building more castles; one was built at Ashgrove or Ballymacshaneroe as it was then known and another at Ballinakill or East Ferry. In a sense, the Great Island was isolated from any English interference.

The castle at Ashgrove still stands today. It is a small tower building to the back of the island, facing the quarry. The castle mentioned at East Ferry is, of course, Walterstown Castle. She gives no date as to when these castles were built. The passage above is in the part of the book called The Great Island, under the chapter called The Anglo-Norman Era, and the passage is labelled Anglo-Norman Strongholds. There is no date mentioned. Before this is a passage called Religious Buildings and goes on to talk about churches up to 1876. The passages before and after are more telling, however, with the chapter before that, called The Statute of Kilkenny, saying -

...In the year of 1367 A.D., Lionel, the son of King Edward, was sent over to Ireland to dam this outrageous flood of blatant consorting with the defeated Irish (to wit, trying to live peacefully within the island of Ireland).

Then, after the passage mentioning the castles built by the Barry's on the island, is one called Abbey And Castle Built By The O'Liathains, and mentions dates. I quote -

...The Celts, and the Anglo-Norman invaders, worshipping God at the same alter in the Catholic faith, under the authority of the Pope, tried to live in harmony without London's intervention. The only battle for mastery that was in progress at the time was that raging between the principal families of the Pale, the Butlers, and the Geraldines. The Pale was a fence erected by the Anglo-Normans around Dublin.

This was in the years between 1420 A.D. and 1520 A.D., when England was convulsed by the great civil war of the White and Red roses, the house of York set against the house of Lancaster.

So, finally, then, a confirmation that Walterstown Castle was built by the Barry family, and in-between the years 1367 and 1420. She also goes on to speak about the destruction of the Catholic Anglo-Norman lords, and in so doing mentions the events of Queen Elizabeth's attempt to destroy the Catholic faith in Ireland -

The Great Island did not escape under her rule. Lord Barry, followed by his kinsmen rallied to the call of the Desmond rebellion and they fought by Desmond's side against the Queen and her new religion. The Earl of Desmond and his followers were defeated. This defeat resulted in Lord Barry's lands being left to the mercy of Lord Ormonde and the English army. However, Lord Barry set fire to his castle, Barryscourt, rather than let it be delivered into the hands of Lord Ormond and Captain Walter Raleigh (afterwards known as Sir Walter Raleigh) by whom it was being besieged. A few years later, Lord Barry, who resided at the eastern side of the Great Island, was so much in fear of his remaining lands being confiscated by the Crown, that he became a Protestant and swore allegiance to the Queen.

...The chieftains, named O'Neill and O'Donnell came south to give aid to those who would not bow to English rule. In the year 1595 A.D., they came to the Great Island and laid waste to the lands of the Barry family, whom they classed as traitors for having sworn allegiance to the Crown. They did the same to other landowners who had bowed to the Queen.

Another passage, The Great Island In The Eighteenth Century, talks about the division of ownership of the island -

The Great Island was now under the ownership of the Brodericks and the Barrys; Sir Alan Broderick or Lord Viscount Midleton owning the lands at Ballyleary, Corbally, Ballybrassil, Ballydaniel and a part of Ringmeen while Lord barry owned areas such as Ballynoe, Lissaniskey, Walterstown, Kilvokery and a section of Ringmeen.

It does not mention the Barrys again except in relation to their expulsion of the Hodnets, and the latter family's building of Ballyvodock Castle. The Lavallin family must have come into ownership of Walterstown Castle in the early seventeenth century, but the book does not mention this, nor anything of their ownership of the townland of Walterstown. After a few more passages, it moves onto the town of Cobh and does not bother with the rest of the island except in relation to churches built.

It seems then that the Walters/Waters family owned the land but not the castle, as I supposed earlier. From that description of the bawn from the Journal of Royal Antiquaries of Ireland of 1897 that I quoted in an earlier post, the castle must have been relatively larger than the others around the island. It surely wasn't a simple tower design like Belvelly and Ballymacshaneroe (now Ashgrove) castles - it may have been more like Barryscourt Castle -



I am going up to the city library next Tuesday with a number of books to have a look at. I did speak to my grandfather's friend (Verling), who said he did not know much about it at all, but mentioned that, as a member of the Historical Society here, there was someone with the surname of Lavallin who was asking for information a few years back. I'm guessing this is Graham G. Lavallin, who wrote Lavallin: A History - A Mystery that was first published in 2003. This book is up in the library, and I will be taking a look at it.

So! A picture is beginning to form of the castle's history. I will get back to you guys on Tuesday and let you know what I find.

Rebelheart

Two things:

1. If there's a Civil Survey for Cork, it should have the required information in detail.

2. Contact Ken Nicholls in UCC. He's now retired but any of the UCC History staff at this address should be able to help you get in touch with him. He can give you your answer in about 8 or 10 languages. And that deeply scary man will know everything about it!

Azhrei

Sorry about the lack of response and updates here - I've been out home and without Internet for a few days. Thank you for the information, Rebelheart, I have sent Ken Nicholls an e-mail and hope he isn't too busy to reply. I'm also going to be heading out to the grounds next week and will be taking photographs of the bawn. I'll post them here, of course.

Will keep you guys apprised.

eh2010

I remember hearing about waltertown castle in school, and I had no Idea where it was located until I read this thread. I would be interested in knowing more info about the castle if any of you know how to get info on it. As for the destruction of the castle I think I remember hearing once that it may have been attacked by cromwells troops. Im not sure as It was a long time ago since I heard that. Are the people living in the house thats there now aware that that was where a castle stood? Was there ever an archaelogical dig done there?

Jo King

I have family links with the Ballymore area. I believe that there is a Verling link in the family tree. One distant relative of mine put together a family tree. The link is http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/r/y/a/Patrick-Ryan-County-Cork/index.html.
He has assembled a massive amount of information about the family and the area. Maybe he could help.

CDfm

This thread is facinating -I love it

Wasnt one of Napoleons doctor one of the Verlings.

eh2010

Does any one know about Bagwells tower which is nearby?

eh2010

Also does any one know about Cuskinny house, like when was built?

Simarillion

These might help
http://buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=record&county=EC&regno=20908731

http://www.frenchfamilyassoc.com/FFA/CHARTSWEB/IREE.htm

eh2010

Also, does anyone know about Ballymacshaneroe Castle, like when it was built?

eh2010

I dont mean to be dragging up an old dormant thread, but I have some new infomation. In the book" History of Great Island by Henry E Dennehy and James Coleman second edition 1990" , On P13 it states that the Castles of Walterstown and Ballymacshaneroe and that of East Ballinakill (in the East Ferry direction) on the Great Island were built during the 15th and 16th Centuries. On p60 it says " The Walters still held 1652 Ballybrassil, Ballynakilla and Ballyknockane, in which year William Barry held Walterstown and Kilvokery, and Pat Lavallin Corbally and West Ringmeen. It must be therefore after this time that the Lavallins got posession of Walterstown , whose castle they held till it was taken down at some time in the 18th Century" It can therefore be infered that Walterstown Castle existed sometime between 1400 or 1500 and 1800

Azhrei

Interesting, thanks man. If it was taken down during the 18th century, it must have been sometime after the lawsuit. Perhaps it was evaluated and was decided that it was unsafe. I wonder where all the bricks left? The site is extremely clean, not a brick loose anywhere, just the bawn that remains.

eh2010

Azhrei wrote: »

Interesting, thanks man. If it was taken down during the 18th century, it must have been sometime after the lawsuit. Perhaps it was evaluated and was decided that it was unsafe. I wonder where all the bricks left? The site is extremely clean, not a brick loose anywhere, just the bawn that remains.

When was the Lawsuit?, that would probably narrow down the time period when it was taken down. As for the remains, I'd say they were reused in other buildings in the Walterstown area or taken by locals and farmers and used for building which happened alot to Castles and Archaeological remains around the Country.Let me know any sources you have I'll try and have alook around.

Azhrei

The lawsuit ended in 1751. I have an excerpt here from the Cork Historical & Archaeological Society's Journal from 1895 -

'To the south-east of Ballyvodock Castle, but situated upon the Great Island, about a mile to the south-east from Ballymacshaneroe Castle, stood Walterstown Castle, as to which Dr. Caulfield only briefly wrote, "Smith says a castle formerly stood at Waterstown (sic), which briefly was the chief residence of the Barry family on the island, of which there only remains now a slight trace, except the Bawn, which is entire, and the walls of the old house of the Lavallings (sic), who succeeded the Barrys."

The Bawn of Walterstown Castle still (1915) remains, not quite so perfect as when Dr. Caulfield wrote the above, but not a vestige is now to be seen of the old castle, nor of the Lavallin's house which he mentions. There is not even the slightest tradition as to when this castle was taken down or its materials removed. If it fell down or was blown up, as in the case of Ballyvodock Castle, some fragments of it would have remained. They must, therefore, have been carted away probably to build one or other of the "big" houses at Ashgrove, Belgrove, or East Grove, or possibly Father Harrington's former Academy at Redington, near Walterstown. If a small building like Ballymacshaneroe Castle, its materials, however, would more easily and quickly disappear.

To this now vanished castle of Walterstown some historic interest attaches. As already shown in this Journal (January, 1895), the ancient name of Walterstown was Ballywatiarig, derived from the O'Walters or Waters - that family to whom belonged John Waters, Mayor of Cork, whose unfortunate championship of the Flemish impostor, Perkin Warbeck, who claimed to be of royal blood, caused him, as well as Warbeck, to be hanged at Tyburn.'

Another book, Castles Around Cork Harbour, states that -

'It appears not improbable that Walterstown Castle was left standing till after the final termination of the above described lawsuit in 1751.'

I can type out what the Journal says about the lawsuit, if you like.

Edit - I knew that I'd typed this stuff out before, I checked the first page and found exactly the same thing. I have all the book titles messed up, so just ignore them!

Azhrei

CDfm wrote: »

This thread is facinating -I love it

Wasnt one of Napoleons doctor one of the Verlings.

A late reply, I know, and I'm sorry but I didn't see this post before! Indeed one of the Verlings was Napoleon's British-approved surgeon during his exile on Elba, I believe. Napoleon didn't trust him (he was in the British army, after all) and there wasn't much interaction between the two. He returned to Ireland when he retired and he is buried in one of the more substantial graves at the Old Cemetery here in Cobh.

Interesting that you should bring him up, since the Wilsons (my mother's family) and the Verlings are related and, I have been told, are among the oldest families in Cobh. So it is possible that he is one of my ancestors

Wiliis

Hi
My mum is a Wilson and told me that her grandfather was the caretaker of Marlogue wood.She also referenced the Verling family.Any info on how the Wilsons became associated with the wood?

Azhrei

Err?! That would mean you're the child of one of my cousins, as my grandfather was indeed the caretaker of Marlogue Wood, and in fact was responsible for planting much of it, clearing it out to build the paths, and maintained it until he was very old.

Bit weird as I can't think of any cousin who would have told you that our grandfather was the wood's caretaker! Unless time has passed much quicker than I remember as two of my cousins have children and to my mind they're still very, very young. I'll fling you a pm.

gozunda

Reference and short description on pg 91 of Walterstown Castle in 'the castles of south Munster ' by Mike Salter

Also check library for civil survey 1654-1660 & 1659 Census undertaken at the time of the Munster plantation - often has interesting details
Also hearth money rolls if existing

You can gleam quite a bit of information from these sources

Azhrei

Cheers, gozunda.

telekon

Often go for my run around that area. Passed the gates (if they indeed belong to walterstown castle, i may be mistaken) last week, which are pretty spectacular imo.

It was good to see someone took the time to tidy them up. The dense foliage has been cleared since the Google street view car passed anyway.

Azhrei

There aren't any gates that I know of... though there is a fairly beautiful old set very close, just up the road. From what I remember of it it's fairly neglected and almost overrun. I don't know what the gates lead to, but Walterstown Castle was actually just down the hill. If you know where the entrance to the Marlogue Inn is, then you'll be aware of the grey house directly opposite it. One of the small walls you can just about see inside the garden is the remains of the bawn.

Also, hello to another Cobh person

Edit - Have taken screenshots of the area in Google maps, and drew awful little arrows. Linked to instead of posting due to size.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12657734/Walterstown.png

To the south, next to the marina, is the start of Marlogue Woods. You can clearly see the bawn as a small wall in the image. I have also marked where I think the gates you're referring to are. This aerial view of a rural area is also available on street view, oddly enough, so here it is (the small ditch looking thing is what remains of the bawn) -

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12657734/Bawn.png

Hmm... look at the little wall across from the house, the raised platform of it, and look at the rocks at the side... possibly some of the remains of the castle materials? Looking at the picture below, as close as I can get with the aerial view, you can see the remains of a rectangular shape. Was this, then, the position of the castle? One of my sources states that the Lavallens had a house built next to the castle - the current building was probably built on top of the foundations of the older house. That means the castle foundations should still be there.



If so, then I estimate the castle's size to be around the same as Belvelly Castle, in width if not in height. We know that Walterstown Castle had a seperate tower which the bawn attached to. This is Belvelly Castle -

telekon

My apologies, after examining the 1st edition OS maps, it was actually the gates/lodge to Belgrove I saw.

I'm not from Cobh by the way. Just like going for runs in areas with interesting surroundings.

gozunda

telekon wrote: »

My apologies, after examining the 1st edition OS maps, it was actually the gates/lodge to Belgrove I saw.

I'm not from Cobh by the way. Just like going for runs in areas with interesting surroundings.

What is strange is that the 1st edition OS map does not even mention a "Site Of" Ballywalter Castle. The first Ed was usually spot on with such sites...

The OSI web site has a free viewer for looking at both the six inch and 25 inch OS maps and is usually a good first call for identifying similar sites.

I would also check O'Donavans Place Name books in the library as well just on the off chance there is an entry for Walterstown - this collection should be available in the Local Studies Section.