ATH Knockout match no.1: Voltwad vs Jolt2007

Bounty Hunter

okay here we go ATH is officially back in its new format as we kick the game off with Volt vs Jolt

Simplified version of the rules:

I will post a topic and you have to post your response including why you made that choice within a given time limit (before the next match is scheduled to begin), take care while making your responses however as the other contestant can counter your arguement i.e pointing out possible flaws in what youve said.

*you can only counter an arguement two times so make sure your point is worth making. If someone's defense of their arguement isnt good it will count against them.

*You can use the same answer as your opponent if you wish i.e you agree with their choice however its hard to win a debate when your making the same points someone has already made

here is question 1:

If you could bring 1 current TNA wrestler to the WWE, who would you choose, how would you push them and why would this choice have more of an (excuse the pun) Impact in the WWE than any other potential choice that you could have made?





ill add a poll to see who progresses later, you have 48 hours to post your responses and rebutles (countering points to each others argument), discussion of these matchups can talk place in the other thread the title of which i will edit most likely at some later point.

The Volt

Ladies and gentlemen of the PW forum,

The TNA roster has been blessed with talent ever since its' foundation way back in 2002. However, there are a few that are head and shoulders above the rest in terms of accomplishments, ability and charisma. The WWE setup at the moment is full of flaws. One particular flaw that strikes me as urgently needing addressing is the lack of a dominant, monstrous heel. Big Show is washed up and stale, Kane prefers to get younger stars over and his gimmick is terrible, Batista has been too discredited in my view, Mark Henry was never going to be a top force and the less said about Khali, the better.

With that said, surely there is no time like the present for the WWE to sign up Samoa Joe and put paid to that gaping hole. I'm a massive fan of Joe and to me he combines the best attributes of Mike Awesome and Bam Bam Bigelow. Add to the equation that Joe is an expert at martial arts and submission holds, you have your dominant force. It would of course be crucial to use him in the right way and not make the fundamental mistake of using him as a Rikishi or even Umaga type figure (Trust the WWE to do that). This is how I propose they use him:
Current WWE Champion John Cena has held the belt for months. After a couple of years of tossing it around like a hot potato with Edge, Orton, Batista etc. he can finally claim a decent, worthwhile title run. This however does not please Mr. McMahon who really can't stand Cena at all. He's been throwing these championship defences at Cena like there's no tomorrow but the ultimate babyface keeps on coming out on top. The night after Fatal Four Way where Cena has successfully defended again, Mr. McMahon calls out the trio of Orton, Batista and Edge to slate them for their inability to take the title from Cena. It is then that he announces a new no. 1 contender who will not only take the belt from Cena but physically and mentally damage him beyond repair. Samoa Joe would then be immediately put over by coming to the ring and decimating the three superstars.

I firmly believe that what WWE needs is a heel akin to the HHH of 1999/2000. Samoa Joe would be despised by the crowd to that extent but would also possess a fearlessness only seen in Brock Lesnar's days before Goldberg came after him. A feud between Cena and Joe would be unequalled by anything happening in TNA or WWE at present. We would then be looking at a hated yet powerful champion who has the backing of the owner. Despite his size, he would contribute to some fabulous matches. Having shelved Cena for a few months a face Jericho could then step in. Jericho could take Joe to his limits and not look weak in defeat at the same time. Samoa Joe has everything it takes to fill the Monster role that so badly needes to be filled.

Not to put Joe over the likes of AJ Styles or Kurt Angle, simply put his kind of superstar is most needed and would make the biggest impact of them all. Angle would only be a shadow of his former self in WWE and his return would hinder the development of stars like Jack Swagger. Furthermore, Styles could follow Joe into WWE then but the fact is the company needs a champion that someone has to go the extreme to conquer, not someone to conquer and already in place Goliath. The knock-on effect of having a credible big man here is that excess stars like Henry and Khali can be shown the door which invariably frees up air-time for younger stars that badly need it. Win-win situation for WWE in my view, Samoa Joe is the one TNA superstar that they should sign given the state of the so-called 'big men'.

Jolt2007

Good afternoon to the extremely beautiful ladies, handsome gentlemen and assorted others in attendance this evening. Before I start I'd like to thank our brilliant and intelligent moderator BH for selecting a wonderful question.

Personally I'd choose to bring over Don West Elijah Burke, "The Pope", D'Angelo Dinero. I'd put him in a mid card feud for either the US or Intercontinental title. What the WWE needs now more than a monster heel imo is a meaningful mid card title feud, and "The Pope" has all the personality and charisma in the world to made such a feud meaningful if given the chance, even if he's against Drew McIntryre. I'd have a feeling such a feud would elevate both guys, and could continue into the main event. All going to plan it should workout somewhat similar to The Rock & Triple H back in the day. He's more than good enough in the ring to make sure the matches are up to scratch too.

Samoa Joe is a good choice, but despite him being the same age as The Pope his physical style has obviously taken it's toll. While still a good performer he's not at the level he was at. He's getting fatter all the time. He's worse than Mark Henry in all areas, except maybe in ring agility. Taking that into account I'm not sure if he could handle the schedule working with the WWE would demand. And while Burke was overlooked during his first run booked properly second time around and he has all the tools to become great. Really great. And while anything can happen in wrestling he's likely to be able to perform at the top level for longer.

I ruled out choosing Kurt since he's far too broken down for the WWE schedule, AJ's personality isn't up to scratch, Matt Morgan I seriously considered but I just think The Pope is that bit better, Hardy is facing trial... the rest or either too old, too small or just plain not as good.

The Volt

Jolt2007 wrote: »

Good afternoon to the extremely beautiful ladies, handsome gentlemen and assorted others in attendance this evening. Before I start I'd like to thank our brilliant and intelligent moderator BH for selecting a wonderful question.

Personally I'd choose to bring over Don West Elijah Burke, "The Pope", D'Angelo Dinero. I'd put him in a mid card feud for either the US or Intercontinental title. What the WWE needs now more than a monster heel imo is a meaningful mid card title feud, and "The Pope" has all the personality and charisma in the world to made such a feud meaningful if given the chance, even if he's against Drew McIntryre. I'd have a feeling such a feud would elevate both guys, and could continue into the main event. All going to plan it should workout somewhat similar to The Rock & Triple H back in the day. He's more than good enough in the ring to make sure the matches are up to scratch too.

Samoa Joe is a good choice, but despite him being the same age as The Pope his physical style has obviously taken it's toll. While still a good performer he's not at the level he was at. He's getting fatter all the time. He's worse than Mark Henry in all areas, except maybe in ring agility. Taking that into account I'm not sure if he could handle the schedule working with the WWE would demand. And while Burke was overlooked during his first run booked properly second time around and he has all the tools to become great. Really great. And while anything can happen in wrestling he's likely to be able to perform at the top level for longer.

I ruled out choosing Kurt since he's far too broken down for the WWE schedule, AJ's personality isn't up to scratch, Matt Morgan I seriously considered but I just think The Pope is that bit better, Hardy is facing trial... the rest or either too old, too small or just plain not as good.

While I do not doubt the credentials of The Pope I do feel that if he was to jump ship back to WWE that he would be simply surplus to requirements. There is an array of unused talent in the WWE and there are plenty of meaningful mid-card feuds that could be used as a means of building superstars alá The Rock & Triple H. WWE's mid-card roster isn't in need of a new face, it is in dire need of a good plan and proper usage. This could make utilisation of the likes of The Miz, Kofi, Morrison, Daniel Bryan et al in the long run. To bring in someone like The Pope would only mean another sardine in an already cramped mid-card proverbial tin.

My opponent has pointed to Samoa Joe's current physique as a flaw in his armour. It is likely that he has some heriditary weight problems but given his relatively young age there is no reason why he could not step up to the plate, put some serious work in and conquer that, giving him at least 5 or 6 years good years at the top of WWE. It is there for him if he wants it.

I also reject the notion of comparing Joe to Mark Henry in any way. As I have previously pointed out, Joe is an MMA expert, submissions master and has more charisma in his little finger than Sexual Chocolate has in his entire body. Samoa Joe is the ideal superstar to make an impact in the WWE in a role that needs filling more than most.

I do not discount that we need a good mid-card feud in WWE but I do argue a valid point that the personnel is there for that already.

Jolt2007

Voltwad wrote: »

While I do not doubt the credentials of The Pope I do feel that if he was to jump ship back to WWE that he would be simply surplus to requirements. There is an array of unused talent in the WWE and there are plenty of meaningful mid-card feuds that could be used as a means of building superstars alá The Rock & Triple H. WWE's mid-card roster isn't in need of a new face, it is in dire need of a good plan and proper usage. This could make utilisation of the likes of The Miz, Kofi, Morrison, Daniel Bryan et al in the long run. To bring in someone like The Pope would only mean another sardine in an already cramped mid-card proverbial tin.

While I agree there's unused talent in the WWE, even if used better none of them have the all round game to eventually become a top of the top babyface in my opinion. For example Kofi botches too much to be trustworthy, Morrison isn't a main event talker etc. Give Pope time on the mic and he'll get over and stand out from the pack, same way The Miz has. Give a guy a good babyface to work with and their job as a heel becomes easy as pie too. He has more main event potential than any of the current WWE babyface midcarders.

Voltwad wrote: »

My opponent has pointed to Samoa Joe's current physique as a flaw in his armour. It is likely that he has some heriditary weight problems but given his relatively young age there is no reason why he could not step up to the plate, put some serious work in and conquer that, giving him at least 5 or 6 years good years at the top of WWE. It is there for him if he wants it.

I'd have my doubts if he can. Like I mentioned before he's visibly banged up over the years and isn't as good as he was a few years ago because of his style. Then we come to another flaw, would the WWE let him continue working his style? If they do and he does it on the schedule the WWE has, it couldn't be good for his already slowing body. If they don't he'll lose all he has going for him.

Voltwad wrote: »

I also reject the notion of comparing Joe to Mark Henry in any way. As I have previously pointed out, Joe is an MMA expert, submissions master and has more charisma in his little finger than Sexual Chocolate has in his entire body. Samoa Joe is the ideal superstar to make an impact in the WWE in a role that needs filling more than most.

Mark Henry is a perfect guy for the WWE still to have. Beating him still means something, not a lot, but something. He's got the role of a big guy down to a T and his smile has more personality and charisma then Joe has overall. Would Joe even be a big guy in the WWE? Sure he looks monstrous next to the likes of AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels, but next to Triple H or Cena? I don't think he'd look imposing at all.

Voltwad wrote: »

I do not discount that we need a good mid-card feud in WWE but I do argue a valid point that the personnel is there for that already.

I already covered this but I do agree that the WWE has the personnel for a mid-card feud, but what I don't think they have is a face that can work a mid-card feud and then get over big time, enough for them to get moved to the main event.

The Volt

While I agree there's unused talent in the WWE, even if used better none of them have the all round game to eventually become a top of the top babyface in my opinion. For example Kofi botches too much to be trustworthy, Morrison isn't a main event talker etc. Give Pope time on the mic and he'll get over and stand out from the pack, same way The Miz has. Give a guy a good babyface to work with and their job as a heel becomes easy as pie too. He has more main event potential than any of the current WWE babyface midcarders.

There's also Rhodes and Di Biase, both of whom I feel would benefit from a decent mid-card feud. I see Di Biase Jr. as a future world champion and I would certainly look to push him or the aforementioned superstars before looking to recruit another mid-carder. Sure Kofi botches the odd move but who doesn't? I still see big things for him, Miz and both ex-members of Legacy. WWE should certainly look much closer to home in relation to a mid-card feud between younger stars.

I'd have my doubts if he can. Like I mentioned before he's visibly banged up over the years and isn't as good as he was a few years ago because of his style. Then we come to another flaw, would the WWE let him continue working his style? If they do and he does it on the schedule the WWE has, it couldn't be good for his already slowing body. If they don't he'll lose all he has going for him.

He's 6'2 and weighs 280 lbs. If he was to go on to a WWE salary he'd be pressured into dropping the fat and gaining muscle. Whether or not WWE would allow him to continue working his style is irrelevant as this is how I would use him. I've pointed to his fully rounded ability in terms of technique, MMA and submission moves, he's got more than enough in his arsenal to overcome whatever orders they would give him in the ring.

Mark Henry is a perfect guy for the WWE still to have. Beating him still means something, not a lot, but something. He's got the role of a big guy down to a T and his smile has more personality and charisma then Joe has overall. Would Joe even be a big guy in the WWE? Sure he looks monstrous next to the likes of AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels, but next to Triple H or Cena? I don't think he'd look imposing at all.

Joe's charisma is awe-inspiring. He doesn't even have to say much on the mic but it is an area that he has improved on vastly. Whereas Henry is just one of those guys I never cared about in WWE, ever. Henry has absolutely no track record to justify him being top heel. Every time he goes against a top face he's lost. It would be the same issue as when JBL was pushed as top heel on Smackdown four years ago. It failed becauise he came out of nowhere and no one bought it. Henry's in ring work is below average at best. If you don't believe me, watch his neverending, I would say feud but that implies he won sometime, fights with Taker. Taker could do nothing with him and Taker could get decent matches out of Yokozuna. Henry has no gimmick. He's strong. That's not a gimmick, it's a nickname. Absolutely no on Henry as top heel. A jobber to the stars and little more.

Jolt2007

I don't have time for too long of a final reply I'm afraid. I've made most of my points already. I feel The Pope ticks every box, and is much better than any current mid-carder. He's good looking, his facemasks would make a ton in merchandise sales and so on. There's no such thing as a sure thing in wrestling, but booked decently he's almost certainly going to be a mega star.
Joe could work too but putting him straight in the main event as the guy is a big risk for a guy unproven at that level. The fans could end up seeing him as Umaga II and not take to him. He doesn't fit the WWE template, and while that's probably the wrong philosophy his push is unlikely to get backed as much as, say, Sheamus. I could go on about the things that would work against Joe in the WWE but I just don't have the time. In short I think Pope would fit perfectly given the right chance, but Joe has a few question marks.

Bounty Hunter

a great start to the competition lads but alas there can only one to progress and with 2/3 of the votes, that man is Voltwad. Well done Volt, hard luck Jolt and top effort man. The second QF is now officially Flahavaj vs Voltwad.

the next match up will go up at around 3/4pm Irish time today and last for a similar amount of time to this one.