Airbag Lights

Also Starring LeVar Burton

My Car ('97 Toyota Starlight) failed the NCT because the airbag light doesnt come on...
This is one of the new changes that came in on the beginning of April and its absolutely ridiculous and when I brought it into the garage to get them to have a look at it, they said they weren't even sure if the light was supposed to work as I've got a mechanical airbag, but they're not sure so I'm gonna have to leave it in so they can fix something that may not need to be fixed!
Has anyone else failed the NCT recently on an airbag light?

DannyBuoy

NCT staff have had an internal bulletin to instruct them not to fail Toyota's that are fitted with a mechanical airbag for warning light issues. I'd suggest ringing their customer service and explaining that your car failed because it has a mechanical airbag, and therefore no warning light, good chance it'll be taken off your report and cert posted out.

Also Starring LeVar Burton

DannyBuoy wrote: »

NCT staff have had an internal bulletin to instruct them not to fail Toyota's that are fitted with a mechanical airbag for warning light issues. I'd suggest ringing their customer service and explaining that your car failed because it has a mechanical airbag, and therefore no warning light, good chance it'll be taken off your report and cert posted out.

Cheers. Shall give them a call in the morning...

Bumpstop

My airbag light is on on my Mercedes. I won't be getting it fixed.

In theory I could intercept warning bulb circuit board tracks on the circuit board on the back of the cluster, and cut them at the bulb receptacle. Construct a small electronic timer Capacitor transistor resistor type, and solder it across the tracks.

When the ignition is turned on the Airbag system will illuminate the lamp to signal the self diagnostic test as normal. This will in actual fact power up the timer which will switch off power to the bulb after a predetermined time. The power for the airbag warning bulb will stay on as the system fails the airbag. however it is only powering the timer which has shut off the light.

Each time the ignition is powerd up the timer resets itself and works again making it look like the diagnostic system is working.

Of course I wouldn't do this, only in theory it could be done.

DublinDilbert

If you have the skills to fool the air bag light, why not use them for good and just fix the problem in the system.

I always prefer to do things properly, your short cut doesn't sounds like it would take more time than fixing the system.

Bumpstop

DublinDilbert wrote: »

If you have the skills to fool the air bag light, why not use them for good and just fix the problem in the system.

I always prefer to do things properly, your short cut doesn't sounds like it would take more time than fixing the system.

Well i did say I was just in theory. the airbag problem with my car is the passenger seat occupancy sensor cost about 150 Euros and a seat removal and sensor installation about 4 hours work.probably about 450 Euros in a garage in all. the theoretical bodge would cost about 5 Euros and take about an hour to do, in theory of course. I would never advocate such actions.

Anan1

Bumpstop wrote: »

the theoretical bodge would cost about 5 Euros and take about an hour to do, in theory of course. I would never advocate such actions.

And nor, presumably, would your front-seat passengers.

Bumpstop

Presumably, or otherwise it would make no difference to a front seat passenger.
The airbags wouldn't deploy as the system is in fail mode, the theoretical bodge wouldn't change this fact. The airbags would fail to deploy anyway bodge or not. btw that would include the drivers bag too. So it would make no difference to the outcome, airbag system faulty and indicating, versus airbag system faulty and not indicating. The theoretical bodge would of course only be applied for the test then bypassed back to stock.

Eoin

Bumpstop wrote: »

My airbag light is on on my Mercedes. I won't be getting it fixed.

In theory I could intercept warning bulb circuit board tracks on the circuit board on the back of the cluster, and cut them at the bulb receptacle. Construct a small electronic timer Capacitor transistor resistor type, and solder it across the tracks.

When the ignition is turned on the Airbag system will illuminate the lamp to signal the self diagnostic test as normal. This will in actual fact power up the timer which will switch off power to the bulb after a predetermined time. The power for the airbag warning bulb will stay on as the system fails the airbag. however it is only powering the timer which has shut off the light.

Each time the ignition is powerd up the timer resets itself and works again making it look like the diagnostic system is working.

Is that really less hassle than fixing the problem?

DublinDilbert

Bumpstop wrote: »

Well i did say I was just in theory. the airbag problem with my car is the passenger seat occupancy sensor cost about 150 Euros and a seat removal and sensor installation about 4 hours work.probably about 450 Euros in a garage in all. the theoretical bodge would cost about 5 Euros and take about an hour to do, in theory of course. I would never advocate such actions.

Or you could just get the front seat occupancy sensor coded out of the Airbag ECU, would take 2 mins for someone with a Star Tester to do. It will think the front seat is always occupied.

Or if you want you can find out the value resistor that would make the airbag ECU think that the front seat is occupied and solder it in, instead of the seat mat.

Bumpstop

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Or you could just get the front seat occupancy sensor coded out of the Airbag ECU, would take 2 mins for someone with a Star Tester to do. It will think the front seat is always occupied.

Or if you want you can find out the value resistor that would make the airbag ECU think that the front seat is occupied and solder it in, instead of the seat mat.

I don't know anyone with a star diagnostic. For some odd reason a resistance measurement of a good sensor, and substitution with a trim pot yielded variable results. A resistor should work but the tolerance may need to be very high, even if you get the exact value.
bee'n there tried that. believe me I am all for the simple ansewer but resistor substitute doesn't work reliably. You could buy the sensor and just jam it under the seat i guess, but it costs a hundred and fifty Euros. But mainly it's just about beating the system in a transistorised fashion, anyone can solder in a resistor.

Guy:Incognito

Good to see all the people who like a good anti nct whinge about it being all about money and nothing to do with safety being proved right by bumpstop.......

Bumpstop

Stekelly wrote: »

Good to see all the people who like a good anti nct whinge about it being all about money and nothing to do with safety being proved right by bumpstop.......

Thank you it's good to have my efforts appreciated.

Esel

Bumpstop wrote: »

Of course I wouldn't do this, only in theory it could be done.

In theory, how much would you charge for doing this?

Fiesta

CaptainNegative wrote: »

My Car ('97 Toyota Starlight) failed the NCT because the airbag light doesnt come on...
they said they weren't even sure if the light was supposed to work as I've got a mechanical airbag,

Whats a mechanical airbag?

daveharnett

Bumpstop wrote: »

The airbags wouldn't deploy as the system is in fail mode, the theoretical bodge wouldn't change this fact. The airbags would fail to deploy anyway bodge or not. btw that would include the drivers bag too.

I've heard this before, and I always thought it was very strange that peripheral stuff like pre-tentioner connectors or occupancy sensors could cause the airbags to fail to deploy. Has anybody had occasion to 'test' this?

I'd be very doubtful that it's true tbh. I see no reason why a manufacturer would (or could from a legal/liability pov) make the software for a safety system this fault-intolerant.

I suspect it's a white-ish lie tbh.

Bumpstop

The airbag system does a diagnostic on start up. Its a digital system and it does not understand the degree of failure. all it knows is the system has returned a failure result, and it commands a system offline. So the airbags will not deploy. don't be fooled if you have an airbag light up, the system is dead. it's not an amber warning, the light is red. My fix is hypotetical.

You must understand the airbags could deploy while you are driving normaly if the system developed a fault. the computer is completly authorised to take the system fully offline if it suspects a fault condition.

The system could cause injury if deployed unsuitably thus the system is very cautious. and will "fail safe".

So that red light in the corner of your dash does mean something if it says SRS or airbag don't think the manufactures did it to make your dash look pretty.

d32

i'm having same problem w. mazda demio-been tricky dealing with garage-guy there gave me a quote for 1,240. for a new front passenger seat with working airbag sensor. i nearly died of shock!!
since then i've been hunting for a second hand seat with working sensor but nothing's turning up.
i've searched around sites apparently water or dirt can get into the cracks in the airbag crash sensors, stories say that when one airbag's disabled then the whole system's failed....fekkin miserable!

kbschooner

CaptainNegative wrote: »

My Car ('97 Toyota Starlight) failed the NCT because the airbag light doesnt come on...
This is one of the new changes that came in on the beginning of April and its absolutely ridiculous and when I brought it into the garage to get them to have a look at it, they said they weren't even sure if the light was supposed to work as I've got a mechanical airbag, but they're not sure so I'm gonna have to leave it in so they can fix something that may not need to be fixed!
Has anyone else failed the NCT recently on an airbag light?

97 Starlet failed, no airbag light. Spoke to NCT . Back today to more senior tester. Said testers should know simple rule for old Toyotas. " If No passanger airbag, no Airbag light fitted". They had e-mail about this. Have cert. now, but some NCT testers don't seem to know SH**.

TestTransmission

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