Do we have a smart economy?

ricman

I,M wondering is ireland a smart economy ,eg technically advanced
in regard to internet/broadband and our education infrastructure.
OR is it just political propaganda.
I believe to revive the economy we will need fast broadband nationwide infrastructure and a high
class education system with an emphasis on computer / science and engineering. WE have a mediocre broadband network
and our educational system is average, ie its designed to give you x amount of points to get acess to course x in university.
WE would be better off say have a special science based leaving cert.
eg IF I want to study programming at university, i can spend 5 years doing a leaving cert based on maths,computers,english , ie i don,t need to waste time on irish, geography ,french, most of which i,ll forget as soon as i leave school.
And maybe each county could have a few secondary schools that just
specialise in science/computer studys .
AT least if all towns had 4meg broadband it might stimulate start up
companys.

RichardAnd

This came up a few weeks ago. Most people in here would ascribe to the belief that the smart economy is just a political myth created to make people think we're more than we are.

We're not a smart economy at all.

ricman

So by making some simple changes in the educational system we could at least encourage more students to study science/computer studys, eg double
the points for matchs, physics ,chemistry if you are going on to do a science related subject in college.less people are doing honours maths cos it makes no sense if you want x amount of points to get to college.

RichardAnd

ricman wrote: »

So by making some simple changes in the educational system we could at least encourage more students to study science/computer studys, eg double
the points for matchs, physics ,chemistry if you are going on to do a science related subject in college.less people are doing honours maths cos it makes no sense if you want x amount of points to get to college.

Encouraging is one thing but there's more to becoming a scientist or engineer than simply doing four years in DIT. When I did software engineering in college, 120 people started the course but only 40 of those original students actually graduated. Not everyone can become a computer programmer and that's something the government don't seem to grasp.

Your suggestion of more points for math and science is a good one but those subjects are not thought correctly to begin with. It's possible to do honours maths, get an A and not understand what calculus is or even how to apply it. Kids learn formulas in class but they never understand why they work and how they do it.

The way maths is thought is what needs to change, it's not simply enough to give more points for it because the 150 points or so that one might get from it will be useless if the student doesn't know how to use it.

Eliot Rosewater

The recent thread about this issue.

I still maintain tge determination laid out in the original post: that the knowledge economy is just a buzz-phrase that is used to justify economic policies which raise the cost of doing business and thus damage manufacturing jobs.

kuntboy

There's also a distinct lack of a sizeable tech-nerdy subculture here. People who build robots in their garage for example. The US is full of these types. We better start developing people like this, and fukcing now.

dan_d

I'd say that we would like to have a Smart Economy, and our gov intend it to happen....but the why, how and where is eluding them.Or they are choosing to ignore them, and just like the sound of the phrase.
Right now, to be honest, all we have is a depressed economy.

mysillyusername

There is NO smart economy in Ireland. Enterprise Ireland and SFI cut funding for any kind of research. New payscales introduced mean that after 8+ years in university a post-doc will only a ridiculously low wage and only one year contracts available in majority of universities. So there is no drive from the government to create a new world class university based smart economy.

Unless you are starting up a company will export potential nobody wants to know!!!

amen

In my mind having research, PhD's etc is only part of a smart economy. The smart economy is actually
1: having respect for science/engineer research and a realisation that research takes time
2: actually implementing a smart economy. Look at England rolling out smart gas/electricity meters that allows user to monitor their own usage and sell electricity back to grid. Also plans to allow drive by meter reading. No sign in Ireland. If water metering happens bet Ireland install old fashion meters that will have to be read.

ei.sdraob

amen wrote: »

In my mind having research, PhD's etc is only part of a smart economy. The smart economy is actually
1: having respect for science/engineer research and a realisation that research takes time
2: actually implementing a smart economy. Look at England rolling out smart gas/electricity meters that allows user to monitor their own usage and sell electricity back to grid. Also plans to allow drive by meter reading. No sign in Ireland. If water metering happens bet Ireland install old fashion meters that will have to be read.

look at the bright side it will create jobs

article here on smart meters and how they are putting alot of people out of work


and to answer the OP we dont have a smart economy, we have a "Smart Whooore" economy and alot of hot air

MaceFace

What is it with people always being so negative any everything. It seems anytime the government say something, it has to be opposed, no matter what they say.

We do have a smart economy in that the largest industries in Ireland are pharmaceutical, IT and financial services.
I work in IT, and although many people I know have been made redundant, they have been very quick to get another job.

AlekSmart

There's also a distinct lack of a sizeable tech-nerdy subculture here. People who build robots in their garage for example. The US is full of these types. We better start developing people like this, and fukcing now.

A Very good point Kuntboy.

It`s debatable as to whether modern Irish Educational and Social practices served to rid Ireland of those types of people.

Our Leaders interpretation of becoming Modern Europeans appeared to centre upon Ireland dispensing with all of it`s "old" ways and moving to a brash,sleek,clean electronic production environment.

I can remember the RTE programmes,where the likes of Ted Nealon,Justin Keating and others revealed all the amazing stuff about the EEC...how we would need to close all of our Corner Shops and local "innefficient" industry.

Having managed to do just that,many of us are often surprised to visit mainland Europe and find the place still full of independent "Corner Shops" and kerbside Garagiste with fuel pumps each contributing to the feeling of a functional Local environment.

In my own time growing up in Dublin,my village had a Butcher,three Newsagents,a Cobbler (in the true sense-not a Mr Minit),a Grocery,two Hairdressers and a florist.

Par for the course one might say...however,there was also a panel-beater,a motorcycle repairshop and a tyre seller all of which kept highly irregular and flexible hours and readily assisted anybody in need.

Those mechanically inclined businesses contributed greatly to the ability of individuals to sort out their own problems and gave generations of people a sense of confidence that is now long gone.

The local tradesman and the ability of local kids to perhaps embark upon an apprenticeship all went to provide an underpinning of society that has now disappeared to be replaced by IT graduates who have difficulty stopping a leaky tap from dripping.

There are still a few pockets of resistance around the country,where the remains of this generation attempt to persevere,under constant attack from official "Health & Safety" and other regulatory agencies all intent on closing-down those who refuse to be assimilated into the Shiny Clean Green Ireland.

Probably the most recent example was the Limerick based Small Garageman who brought down the entire weight of Irelands Health and Safety agency on his head for a Topless Calandar displayed on his Garage Wall.

God alone knows how much this example of pro-active administration cost the country but I suppose it looks well on a young H & S graduates CV.....Gotcha !!!

As a small,and not very important European Country,we need to refocus our sights back to promoting and encouraging the Back-Street Repair shop,the place where things can be fixed rather than thrown in the bin whilst a new one is bought from the local "Mall".

Nody

MaceFace wrote: »

What is it with people always being so negative any everything. It seems anytime the government say something, it has to be opposed, no matter what they say.

Because any time the government actually says something factual and intelligent it is from pure chance rather then understanding and a sense of direction outside of buzz wording a subject. Sadly this is not only true for the government but for all political parties so not a FF complaint alone.

To the OP; only way for a knowledge economy is a complete redesign of all school material and all teachers (the second part would demand 3x the wages at least for that) to go from cram to understand. It is also required that schools and people in power drop the notion that everyone are equally gifted in all subjects. I'd say at least three different classes for each subject to allow people of different speed to progress would be required (i.e. slower, same as today, faster) and on top of that specialization classes for the once interested and with a talent for it (most likely remote teaching via video conference). There should also be a lot more work done in project form instead of written tests (start people early on taking their own responsability and set them up as future small company owners used to working with their ideas alone) along with presentation of the project (to get people used to selling in their ideas to future capitalist funds).

Then we can possibly start talking about a knowledge economy; what exists have today is not it.

RichardAnd

AlekSmart wrote: »

God alone knows how much this example of pro-active administration cost the country but I suppose it looks well on a young H & S graduates CV.....Gotcha !!!

The one beauty of the Recession is that people like that are finally finding out how much they are really worth to the wrold

DidierMc

RichardAnd wrote: »

The one beauty of the Recession is that people like that are finally finding out how much they are really worth to the wrold

Like Bill Cullen?

i57dwun4yb1pt8

just because we are experts at facebook / boards / bebo

doesnt mean we are smart -
alot of the graduates you meet today are thick as a plank with a grandiose sense of entitlement , and a know it all attitude .

boy do they crumble at the first sign of real work and having to think alone.

RichardAnd

DaDumTish wrote: »

just because we are experts at facebook / boards / bebo

doesnt mean we are smart -
alot of the graduates you meet today are thick as a plank with a grandiose sense of entitlement , and a know it all attitude .

boy do they crumble at the first sign of real work and having to think alone.

On this I do actually agree but it depends where you graduated from. Talk to a graduate of computer programming and you'll probably (though not necessary) find someone with at least some level of intelligence. Talk to a graduate of Arts or Health and Safety and well, I don't really need to finish that sentence.

But like I said above, the recession is actually triming idiots like that away. Employers want people with good heads on their shoulders not someone who puts "socialising" on their CVs under Hobbies and Interests.

ricman

My point is IF the government wants a smart economy the whole educational system needs to progress into the 21st century.Put more emphasis on tech/science ,drop irish as a REQUIRED subject.
Lets say i want to be an engineer , let me do 4 subjects in the leaving cert.Instead of 8 subjects, which makes the leaving cert primarily a practice of memorisation.Look at other countrys ,which have hi-tech economys , we dont have to reinvent the wheel.
Other countrys built hi speed fibre networks, any company can use the basic network,or ducting as long as they offer a broadband service to the public.
IF you want to do a programming course ,you should not be judged on
how well you did in an irish,or geography test.
Maybe nama could donate some buildings as rent free units for startups.
OF course the leaving cert is not designed to produce creative workers or foster initiative.
There will always be people who do arts degrees to pass the time , or because they have no interest in business or science.
IN a world of specialisation the leaving cert is like a horse and carriage ,of limited usefulness.
Of course theres a proposal to put a web filter on all irish isps.I
HOPE thats wrong as the last thing we need is to introduce more regulation similar to
the disastrous uk economy bill.Which makes it very difficult for any school or hotel
to have wifi unless its heavily filtered.

dan_d

Just one thing ricman, I assume 4 subjects in the LC for something like engineering would be maths based...that's not sufficient as engineers need to have competent report writing skills...a friend of mine in my engineering course in college was excellent at maths but useless at english because she was always told that she could do something like engineering so english didn't matter...to this day that is still affecting her. She struggled at college with reports etc which affected her marks a lot, and in her current job, 5 years later in a different country, she's still being told that her report writing has to improve. It's not just as simple as "only do the subjects you think are relevant".