Desperately seeking advice with rehomed troubled dog

illicit007

Hi Everyone

Intro:
I recently replied to an add looking to rehome an 18 month old male neutered Doberman. I took him home and over the next few days I found to my surprise the dog has the worst case of dog aggression I've seen. When he sees another dog his front feet are off the ground, the leash is tight and he's barking like a mad crazed vicious dog at passing dogs. He would attack another dog im fairly sure. I took him to a trainer and she was very good and she made some sort of progress. However this dog was on the verge of attacking the trainers dogs the whole time. He almost bite one of them but we had both dogs on leashes.
Background:
I got him from a family 3 weeks ago who had 2 Dobermans, one unneutered male, one neutered male (the dog they gave away to me) and a unneutered bitch. They said the two males dogs fighting and thats reason why they wanted to get rid of him. They showed me the dogs and they were running around playing etc so I thought he looked grand. Turns out the other male Doberman was tormenting him which has caused this dog to have major fear aggression towards ANY other dog now, even my mums two small puppies.
Current situation:
I've had him for 3 weeks and have been doing well with the training in all respects except from the dog aggression. I can't seem to make it any better. I'm trying to find 1) find a dog trainer who can give me a money back guarantee that they can cure my dog or 2) find someone who wants to take this dog aggressive dog (which I don't see happening.) But I'm going to be honest and advertise him as such, not under false pretenses that he only fights occassionally with one other dog...

I'm sad and desperate right now. I think he either gets rehabilitated or a vet puts him down at this stage as if he attacks and bites another dog both this dog and myself will be in a lot of trouble. I can't afford to pay hundreds of euros for trainers as I'm unemployed and completely broke right now. Its totally unfair that the previous owners didn't explain his dog fear aggression problem to all other dogs as I wouldn't have taken him knowing this problem as I'm totally unequiped financially right now to rehabilitate a dog.

Any advice appreciated. Right now I'm going to try and find a trainer who can give a money back guarantee, or find someone who is willing to take him with full knowledge of his problems. Lastly I'm considering returning him to the family I got him from.

Thanks

rosiejosie

Hi, illicit007, thats a horrible situation you're in. I don't know if this will help but what I would do is firstly get in touch with the old owners and tell them the story. Tell them that you do not feel as though you are the best person to deal with a dog that has these problems, but that you would like to try to find the dog an alternative home and ask them if they would either like to take him back to try to work on the issues themselves, or if they could put the word out that he needs a home. But that they should tell the truth about the aggression. Then I would do a google search and find all the animal rescue shelters/charities that cover your area, and tell them what is happening, ask them if they would put the dog up on their websites and explain about his problems. There could well be someone out there who has enough space to exercise the dog without running the risk of meeting other dogs and would be willing to give him a home, or there could be someone who has more experience in dealing with dogs with these kind of problems, and if you could find him an experienced home that would obviously be much better than having to put him down. Do everything you can to avoid that. Also, going through a rescue centre means that there is more of a chance you will get a good home for him, or that the new homes will be vetted. The more homes he has to go through the more difficult it will be for him, and the more difficult he is likely to become.
In the meantime, try to get your hands on a halti or gentle leader, I think the gentle leader is better as there is less of a chance they will get the loop off their nose, these kind of harnesses/headcollars will give you much more control because you can pull his head away when he sees a dog so it's easier to turn him and get him away. Also, try to minimise the chances of him meeting other dogs - walk him early in the mornings or late at night when there aren't as many people around, but if you walk him at night make sure that he does get out into a garden for a while during the day, it's as important for dogs as it is for humans to get enough exposure to daylight. I hope something works out for you both

EGAR

First off, take a deep breath and relax..

The dog is only with you for 3 weeks that is not even enough to have settled with you properly. I doubt that he already has a bond with you.

I deal with alot of dogs with dog aggression and an 18 months old dog has every chance of being re-socialised. However, there is no quick fix cure and it will take a while. He needs patience and repetition in training.

Fear aggression is one of the hardest things to correct but in a young dog who at 18 months isnt developed fully there is a good chance.

Do you know when he was neutered, ie. at what age? Neutering can make fear aggression a hundred times worse.

fatmammycat

Okay, as EGAR says, breath. You don't have the dog that long and it takes time to rehabilitate any animal. Your dog has plenty of scope, he's not even- in my opinion- fully mature yet. You can do this.
I got my old doberman at 6/7 months and he had spent much of that time tied up or locked in a small tiny run. He was a NIGHTMARE of unsocialised aggressive angst. Men, dogs, people 'looming' over him, suddden movements, you name it, he barked at it, or snapped at it. Attack first ask questions later. it seemed relentless. But a number of things helped.
One -exercise. My guy went from being a cooped up animal to a well exercised one and that was the first change in his behaviour. Every morning we went out early for a long walk ( varied areaa so he didn't become possessive about routes) and this became his routine and cut out almost to the week he arrived a lot of his destructive ways.
Two-Food- I don't know what the hell they were feeding him but his coat was dull and he was over weight for a pup. That took a few attempts to get him onto the right food for his admittedly sensitive stomach. Again this seemed to help calm him slightly.
Three- social interaction. I'll come to that in a second, but as the owner of a large, intelligent fearful dog, that was my main hurdle and the one that was the most difficult.
One of the first things, as a restricted breed, your dog needs by law to be muzzled when out and about. Sad but true. In this case as he is dog aggressive he should wear a muzzle anyway, my guy wore a soft canvas muzzle that did not stress him unduly ( he associated wearing it with walks and grooming and good things)
If possible you should be meeting up with as many dog owning friends as humanely possible over the next few months. The stupid leash law for restricted breeds makes it doubly difficult to allow them time to run around and play like normal dogs, but of you can get a friend with a good natured relaxed dog to accompany you out and about on walks with your dog it helps enormously. My guy used to go nuts around larger dogs, but a friend's elderly labrador- unfazed by his antics- was the first step in my dog realising that all the barking and snapping and carrying on in the world was not going to change the walk we were on. I worked with her and her dog mostly in the early days and then we introduced other dogs into various walks. I also took him practically everywhere with me, and did not react to his jumpy behaviour but praised him when he just behaved in a normal manner, but not too high pitched in praise either or this could set him off too( he really was a highly strung sort of fellow).
He was never an overly friendly dog, always a little aloof, but after I would say 5 to 6 months of constant inforced interaction with people, places, dogs, noise, horses, you name it he had to deal with it, I came away with as close to a perfect animal as I ever thought possible. But I won't lie, it was a long and committed process.
Be calm, try to stay calm, when he lifts off his front feet don't react, walk away, walk by, walk, just keep walking, don't turn it into a tug of war. Dobes are naturally watcheful I think, but if you can get him to JUST be watchful without the explosive fear and aggression you'll be onto a winner.
Good luck, it is still very early days, so don't give up yet. Give the dog time, give yourself time and you'll most likely come out of the experience with a fine dog.

illicit007

rosiejosie, egar, fatmammycat... Thanks so much for your long and supportive replies.

I thought I'd give you a little more information and some updates and developments.

Today, since my original post this morning:
I called the woman who I originally got the dog off today. I told her about my experience with the dog, i.e. The its pulls a flying superman on the leash and growls, howls and barks viciously at any dog that comes within eye sight. She seemed to think that Dobermans just didn't like any other dog that wasn't a fellow Doberman and was a bit surprised that I was having such serious problems with him. I in turn was surprised at her reaction. She did say that he would pull the lead tight and bark at other dogs with her too, but in my opinion any well socialised dog should be able to walk without going mad at other dogs.

Yesterday I went out with my mum and her 6 month old puppy (mini yorkshire terrier pup) and asked her to walk wide distance circles around us while I distracted him with hide and seek treats, toys and things of that nature while ignoring the dog in the distance and acting normal unstressed and playful as possible. Well the dog went nuts the whole time. We eventually gave up after my elbow was almost pulled out of its socket. We both went back to my house in seperate cars and put the dogs in seperate locked rooms for the duration of my mums visit.

Since I got the dog I can't let the dog outside in the yard alone either or off leash as both neighbours have dogs and I fear he could clamber over the fence and fight them till the death. Also if I take him for a walk because I live in a cul de sac there is only one direction to walk him, toward the village/town center. There are parks and fields beyond this, where I was planning on walking him before I got him, but getting through town without a major display of aggression is a gamble. Of course I did get a nylon muzzle for him too but he still makes a heck of a lot of noise barking and howling etc though it.

More and more I'm really thinking the best option would be for the previous owners to take him back and get him sorted out because at least they had a massive (and I mean massive) back yard with no adjacent neighbourhood dogs to fight with.

So the lady (previous owner) I called today to discuss the dog, its actually her daughter that owns the dogs and she will be home a bit later. She needs to talk to her daughter about this and get back to me. I left my contact details with her and told her to contact me for a chat when its suitable.

However the information that you guys have given me here will be brilliant to pass on to them. So if you have anything else to say or anyone else has any input let me know.

I'll post again soon with updates.

p.s.
Egar you say neutering can make a male dog fear aggression a hundred times worse. That would make sense as this guy is so bad I think the only person that can fix him is Ceasar Milan the way he takes dogs away for 12 weeks to rehibiltate them before returning them to the owners. #
I'm not sure what age he was neutered but I will ask them when they call back later today and post the answer.
Also on a side note he doesn't lift his leg to pee... the trainer I went to see thought it was a direct result of being bullied by his older Doberman male unneutered pack member for the last 18 months.
My question is can you please tell me more about this statement. What age is it dangerous to get neutered at, is it back to get a dog neutered then, would it be best not to get neutered or should you only get them neutered if they arn't fear aggressive etc?


Thanks again everyone, I appreciate it a lot.

EDIT: Since this morning I was just off the phone to the owner. Egar FYI the dog was neutered at 12 months. I talked to the lady who was a bit of a spa, she said she didn't want it back and basically tried to pawn the problem off on me. She put me on the daughter who was MUCH more reasonable and said she would take it back no problem and sorry about all the hassle.

Moral of the story: I love Dobermans and would definitely get one again. I've learn't that a dog needs to be socialised a lot from a very young age and that any signs of aggression need to be dealth with immediately.

thanks again

fatmammycat

Glad to hear you were able to speak and resolve your problem with the original owners. I was thinking of you yesterday, remembering how tough it was with my guy in the early days.