New Build, What heating system?

Comic Book Guy

Hi all.
First time Boards user looking for advice.
Am currently awaiting planning permission to build a 2 storey dwelling house on my own land. All going well hope to get the builders in later in the summer.
Main concern at the moment is the type of heating system to put in so would appreciate peoples views.
A couple of mates of mine wax lyrical about Geo-thermal systems but the couple of builders i have talked to seem wary as it is a new technology and has not been fully tried and tested in this country.
Was thinking of underfloor off oil burner backed up by solar panels but am open to peoples suggestions.

Thanks in advance for your help!!!

MicktheMan

Imo, as with many self builders, you are going about it in the wrong way. You are asking a question about your heating system without any mention of your insulation/air tightness specifications. Remember that your heating system's job is to replace the heat that is escaping from the building (through walls, floor, roof and air infiltration). If you concentrate on reducing this heat loss then you will need a very simple heating system or indeed no heating system at all (passive).
Spend your money wisely on the insulation / air tightness / thermal bridging specifications etc, ensure your architect/builder is up to speed (experience, workmanship) and you will benefit for many years to come - don't just "do" building regs!

sinnerboy

+1 .

OP - your question should be

- New Build . What heating system ?

In other words build correctly and you will not require a conventional heating system .

Google "Passive House" after reading this

http://constructireland.ie/Vol-4-Issue-1/Articles/Passive-Housing/The-emergence-of-the-passive-house-in-Ireland.html

http://constructireland.ie/Vol-4-Issue-2/Articles/Passive-Housing/Carlow-houses-show-how-to-beat-the-passive-standard.html

soldsold

Agreed with the last two posters.

Design to stop the heat loss, then calculate the heat load required. It should be so low that spending a lot of money on a heating system will not pay back.

A couple of general opinions, note all the info below is just my 2 cents:

1) Cold bridging is not usually focused on enough. Mortar snots on wall ties, window sills, cavity closer blocks, strip foundations, L blocks around windows, window fitment in the walls, chimney penetrations in the roof - all potential cold bridges.
2) Airtightness needs to be designed from the start, and is not easy to get the details right, there will be many junctions to consider - windows are relatively easy, cathedral ceilings meeting roof spaces, open porches, rsj's sticking out of walls, roof trusses in dormer roofs, crawlspaces, timber stud walls meeting the roof, pipe and cable penetrations in the walls, ESB cable entry point into the house, fuseboard wiring leaving the fuseboard and going into the attic in bungalows, and especially downlighters - are all airtightness leaky spots that need to be thought through.
3) Continuity of insulation - if you pick 200mm insulation in a cavity wall for example, try to make sure its a continuous 200mm all around the house including eaves, where walls turn sharply, etc.
4) If building in blockwork, consider having some internal non loadbearing walls as timberframe stud walls - no foundation needed so one less cold bridge.

If your house is a simple design without lots of bits sticking out consider going to full passive spec. If doing so, get an analysis done on the build (eg PHPP analysis) - not huge money - so you can play around with window u-values and
insulation levels to maximise the effectiveness and minimise spend. This will also tell you your overall heating load for the house.

Then choose your heating system.


Anyway, back to the original question - if not looking at passive, get either:

1) An oil condensing boiler and radiators, or
2) A different make and model of oil condensing boiler and radiators
3) A geothermal system from a proven installer that has happy clients that will show you their esb bills. Too many dodgy geothermal systems out there to take a risk but if done right they are not bad.

beyondpassive

This is the perennial question, what heating system do I go with? it usually follows, what type of wall system do i choose?

My own view on this, which is largely founded on scientific approaches, has been evolving over the last 3 years. Initially people starting out to build would either decide to go for full passive or would decide to go for the usual and then bolt on renewable technologies. There was a huge difference between them, radically different budgets and political views. The passive group wore linen trousers and sandals and eat humus while doing yoga. The 'a sure its grand' brigade liked their 60 inch TV's, 4x4's and only use the 25,000 kitchen to reheat the take away.

Generalising aside, the two groups have converged of late. Passive isn't for everyone, and people now realise that builders can barely manage to build minimum building reg standard.

If you look at any cost benefit curve, its a bell shaped curve like a camels hump really. At the top of the hump it levels off, this is where return is optimised, The x axis is spend and the y axis is return on investment, the higher the spend the higher the return, at the initial stages, untill you reach a point where you are spending more to chase smaller returns. There is a point where you get maximum bang for buck.

There are certain interventions you can make which cost nothing, siting, orientation and compactness. These are design issues so likely not important here. Next is the low hanging fruit, optimised levels of insulation, cold bridge minimisation and airtightness. These cost very little but have higher returns than any financial product available. Now it starts to get more expensive. Softboard on the roof, cellulose between the rafters, foamglass block on the base of the inner leaf, wide cavity, windows below a frame U-value of 1. Next comes the technology, Heat recovery ventilation, undefloor heating with oil. Now you've hit the sweet spot.

floors 0.14
Roof 0.15 40 softboard, twin rafters, 275 cellulose
walls 0.17, 250mm wide cavity
windows 0.9
cold bridges 4%

At this point your house will use about 40-45 kWh's per metre square for both space and hot water. Space heating alone will use about 22kWh's/sqm as against passive at 14kWh/sqm. If you want to push on from there, your returns on investment go up. Solar panels are needed from Part L compliance, but 10-13 years return at net present values. Heat pump etc. How long will it take fro a €25k vertical bore GSHP to pay for itself?

Think eco-minimalisation instead of eco-bling and you can heat your home using a cheap oil boiler on half a fill. Thats efficiency.

soldsold

Hi Beyonepassive:

"underfloor heating with oil"

Why underfloor heating rather than radiators?

heinbloed

Question by soldsold:
" Why underfloor heating rather than radiators?"

The larger the emitting surface is the lower the flow temperature can be chosen.
Combine UFH with wall heating and the flow temperature of a wet system can easily be reduced to 25 degrees when going for minimum thermal insulation standards common in standard home building situations, airtightness provided.
This low flow temperature is the guarantee for a 'as cheap as possible to run' central heating system.
Going for even lower demands would eliminate the financial justification of a central heating. A plain electric heating mat (UF or behind plaster for example) would do the trick then, regulated with a room thermostat.

To the OP:
Make sure the flow temperature is as low as possible. Esp. when chosing a heat pump.
Ask an energy advisor for a signed statement, laying down the various heating methods. He/she would be able to give (at least a rough- !) advise on the economics as well.
Deep boreholes are expensive. HPs as well. This high price tag would in most cases justify such a central heating system only in situations where a 24h/365 day heating demand has to be covered.

Check this board about HP issues, there are some interesting links to get real experienced data.

soldsold

I understand the logic of underfloor low temps with heat pumps, and the suggestion of wall heating with underfloor to allow 25degree heating is new to me but makes sense at face value at it's less of a heating load from ground temps. But I've always understood oil boilers don't work efficiently at very low temps, especially condensing boilers?

Having said that I'm not strong on heating and plumbing so basically just interested in the logic here

heinbloed

Quote by soldsold:

" .... I've always understood oil boilers don't work efficiently at very low temps, especially condensing boilers? "

The oposite is the case: condensing boilers work very well (efficient) at low temperatures.
There are different makes and models of (oil-) condensing boilers. To purchase the right one check the situation with a heating engineer, an energy advisor.
In principle most would argue that a thermal storage, a buffertank should be installed to run a boiler efficiently. With surface heating systems the wall and floor circuits hold a lot of water themself.Unlike to most standard radiator situations this thermal storage capacity in itself is enough. No need to buffer or store, provided a suitable boiler is choosen.

So one would save with such an installation at several lines: minimum of space demand since no room for a thermal storage and radiators is needed.
Highest possible fuel efficiency because of low flow and return temperatures.
And the radiating surfaces last much longer than radiators, no rust because the plumbing is made of plastic pipes and brass fittings.
Some piping manufacturers claim a 50 year minimum lifetime for their products.

Comic Book Guy

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

Appears i am indeed approaching this from the wrong direction and should be priorotising insulation first and foremost. To be honest i'm inexperienced in all things construction so will be leaning on the engineer and lads like yourselves for advice.
We are hoping to build a 2450 square foot two storey, due to hear back from council at end of week if initial application has been accepted or have to go down the further info route.
We were planning on really optimising insulation effectiveness and looking at things like triple glazed windows etc, but push come to shove what kinda heating system would you guys recommend everything else being equal and having an effective insulation model put in place.

Thanks again

changes

I built a similar sized house to your own one OP. I went for oil & rads and a multi fuel stove with back boiler. In the end the geothermal was too pricy for me to install. I hope to put in solar in a few years also.

JuniorB

Comic Book Guy ... just to give you a heads up on figures and some of the logic we used. I'm by no means an expert on any of this

Our quote for plumbing a 3100 sq ft house is 28.5k.
That includes all sanitary ware being fitted (we have to supply), pressurised hot water system, all piping etc etc
We're installing the following (off top of my head, can't find the quote):
Underfloor downstairs and in 1 bathroom and 1 ensuite upstairs, seperate zone for each room.
6 Rads on seperate zones upstairs.
30sq meters of solar panels (i think!)... or more like 30 tubes !!
800 ltr buffer tank with oil\solar\back boiler feeds.
95% efficient Oil Condensor boiler.
Install HRV system and all ducting etc for same.

We'd hope that the solar will provide hot water for 4/5 months of the year with no other energy requirement for these months.
During the rest of the year it will provide a few degrees to pre-heat the water before back boiler or oil will kick in.

Also look at how the house will be used. Will there be anyone there during the day or will you just require heat for evening / night time? Will this be the case in years to come as well?
Our house will be occupied 24/7 and therefore will require heating 24/7.

The big reason for the thermal store/buffer tank was the ability to plumb in the stove. We wanted an insert stove more for aestetic reasons. We will not require a huge amount of heat from our stove as the house will be well insulated and air tight.
This will be lit mainly in the evening time during the autumn/winter. Hopefully the back boiler will feed the buffer tank up to say midnight. Then that water will be stored in the well insulated buffer tank and used to heat the underfloor from say 5am onwards to have nice heat in the house in the morning.. and minimal oil usage.

Best of luck with whatever you choose anyway...

BTW for your budget...Basic insert stove and back boiler for airtight house is approx 2k with another 500 or so for installation.

sydthebeat

JuniorB wrote: »

30sq meters of solar panels (i think!).
800 ltr buffer tank with oil\solar\back boiler feeds.
.

would that be 30 tubes???

30 sq m is HUGE and would probably blow up the hot water cylinder...

JuniorB

You're probably right Syd... 30 something or other !!:p sure what's a few metre squared between friends !!

HenBB

heinbloed wrote: »

Quote by soldsold:

" .... I've always understood oil boilers don't work efficiently at very low temps, especially condensing boilers? "

The oposite is the case: condensing boilers work very well (efficient) at low temperatures.
There are different makes and models of (oil-) condensing boilers. To purchase the right one check the situation with a heating engineer, an energy advisor.
In principle most would argue that a thermal storage, a buffertank should be installed to run a boiler efficiently. With surface heating systems the wall and floor circuits hold a lot of water themself.Unlike to most standard radiator situations this thermal storage capacity in itself is enough. No need to buffer or store, provided a suitable boiler is choosen.

So one would save with such an installation at several lines: minimum of space demand since no room for a thermal storage and radiators is needed.
Highest possible fuel efficiency because of low flow and return temperatures.
And the radiating surfaces last much longer than radiators, no rust because the plumbing is made of plastic pipes and brass fittings.
Some piping manufacturers claim a 50 year minimum lifetime for their products.

Two questions:
1) What temperature should you set the boiler at when your underfloor heating is set at min and you are NOT heating the hot water.
2) Same question as previous but when you are also heating the hot water.

heinbloed

HenBB asks:

Two questions:
1) What temperature should you set the boiler at when your underfloor heating is set at min and you are NOT heating the hot water.
2) Same question as previous but when you are also heating the hot water.

It is important to design the thermal (heat!) output according to the energy demand. Most UFH sellers and installers have computer programs to do this for their clients.
This design will give the length of the tubes burried in the heat emitting surface, the floors and walls.
Tell the UFH seller or whoever would do this calcalution a.) the energy demand of the room/building/'zone' and b.) the planned flow temperatures.
Equipped with these two numbers the heating system designer can tell you how the heat emitting surface has to be designed: how many miles of tubes you have to install, how deeply burried, how close etc..

The temperature of the central heating flow should always be set at the lowest possible setting.

Condensing boilers can be build very small, modulating from 2 or 3 kW onwards I have seen them.
So if the minimum demand is 2 or 3 kW they'll run permanently

About the DHW temperature: there are combi-(condensing) boilers available which would provide the taps with hot water. Several possibilities are on offer:

Direct tapping, the boiler starts once the tap is opened and switches off if the tap is closed.Depending on the length of the pipes between boiler and tap it will take a while before hot water reaches the tap.

Circulation tapping, the DHW is run in a circuit where all taps are fully supplied with DHW at all times. Energy consuming, use a timer in household aplications for economic reasons.

The COMBI- boilers have 2 boilers in one, to use a simple description. The one provides central heating at temperature X, the other Domestic Hot Water at temperature Y.

For small households (those with a limited DHW demand) direct electric heating of the water might make more economical/ecological sense than a
combi boiler, circulation or not.
For larger, permanent DHW coverage the efficiency factor using direct primary energy (oil, gas versus electricity) should be used.....if not going for 'free' energy like ST. Here the buffer/storage tank makes economical sense: what is lost through the tank's insulation didn't cost, so to speak, will be replaced the next day.

Whenever thermal energy storage is used the financial losses should be calculated.

For a full analysis of a building's energy demand and how to cover it ask an energy advisor.

manufan16

Can anybody recommend a heating engineer / Energy advisor to help decide on a heating system for my new build ? PM's please. I am in Dublin.

thanks

Liza12

Hi all,
New to boards.

Really need your advice.

Waiting on planning permission and trying to do as much research as possible. Building a 2200sq ft two storey house. Plan to go with 200mm cavity beading 150mm ground & first floor insulation. Triple glazed windows, looking into heat loss recovery system & definately solar panels. Thought about geothermal but don't think we can afford it. Looking at triple coil boiler - solid fuel stove, solar panels & oil. Now where I'm totally confused undefloor heating or radiators. Hate the sight of radiators but panicing over the running costs of underfloor.

Would really appreciate anybody's experience with this.
Thanks

sheff the ref

Some people do a split of Rads and Underfloor. They might do underfloor in say the Kitchen, sitting room etc. and then rads in the bedrooms bathrooms etc where there is less requirement for heat

JuniorB

Liza12 wrote: »

Hi all,
New to boards.

Really need your advice.

Waiting on planning permission and trying to do as much research as possible. Building a 2200sq ft two storey house. Plan to go with 200mm cavity beading 150mm ground & first floor insulation. Triple glazed windows, looking into heat loss recovery system & definately solar panels. Thought about geothermal but don't think we can afford it. Looking at triple coil boiler - solid fuel stove, solar panels & oil. Now where I'm totally confused undefloor heating or radiators. Hate the sight of radiators but panicing over the running costs of underfloor.

Would really appreciate anybody's experience with this.
Thanks

Don't be panicing anyway!
Main thing to do for a start is to limit your heating requirement and you appear to be doing that with good levels of insulation and air tightness.
The less heat you lose the less you require to produce.

On the production side you also need to look at solar gain i.e. what heat you may gain from the sun through large glazing sections. I was very sceptical of this before we built but have been won around completely.
In this instance you may look at double glazed instead of triple. While triple keeps the heat in it also keeps the heat out i.e. prevents solar gain.

We have the set up you mentioned (triple coil 600 ltr buffer tank). Air tightness 2.5. 80 solar tubes (the more you can fit on your roof the better!). Stove with back boiler.
In the house 2 years and after some initial teething problems we're running at 700ltrs of oil a year. We've a fire on most days in winter - would estimate we are going through 100 bags of turf and 30 bags of timber.
The house is occupied and heated 24/7.

We have underfloor all rooms downstairs and bathroom/ensuite upstairs. We are using alu-rads (require heat of 45/50 degrees) all other rooms. 75mm screed for underfloor. If I had my way again I'd do underfloor everywhere. Warms up a lot quicker and is more controlable than I was lead to believe.Also lower heat (30 degree in tank) required.

The back boiler on the stove is a must. Most stoves produce huge heat so in an air tight, well insulated house the room will over heat very quickly. The back boiler will take a lot of this heat and heat your buffer tank in the evening. That should produce sufficient energy to heat the underfloor/rads the following morning and therefore limit your oil usage.

The main advice I'd give you is to make sure a reputable and competent heating engineer designs the system for you. ....And that you get a decent plumber. Best of luck.
PM for any more details and anyone that wants to call to see the system in operation is more than welcome!

Do-more

Liza12 wrote: »

Hate the sight of radiators but panicing over the running costs of underfloor.

I take it you mean you are worried about the ongoing running costs of UFH rather than the initial installation cost?

You will find plenty of horror stories about poorly installed under floor heating which costs a fortune to run.

In many cases this is because it was poorly specified, my own parents installed UFH in their house built in 1999, the amount of insulation used under the slab was insufficient as was the amount of insulation used around the perimeter of the slab (I don't think there is any!) even with good levels of insulation under the slab a big portion of the heat loss can be out through the side of the slab.

They also have heavy carpets installed in many rooms which doesn't help at all.

The general level of insulation in the house also leaves a lot to be desired being just above the regs at the time so a long way short of what is the norm now.

It's criminal now to look at how poorly specified it was even though they had an architect designing and supervising the build of the house.

Properly installed UFH can be economical to run but you want to make sure that you pay attention to insulating and slab as well as the rest of the house.

Liza12

Thanks a mil for responses, starting to calm down a bit, will def pay more attention to insulating and sides of slab.

All the more replies of your experiences the better.
Thank you

fclauson

couple of points
1 - look at oil+solar vs HP - you will find that HP is a better long term investment (search for my post which has some cost analysis) Solar is really very expensive per kw - solar does not give "free" heat as there is a big capex up front

2 - not only insulate under the slab bit also around the edge - I ahve 50mm around EVERY wall internal and external so basically each rooms screed sits in its own "tray" of insulation. Also I would go for 200mm in the floor - its not that much more expensive and it will really really stop heat going downwards

Possedion

does a HR not pick up lot of hot air a stove will generate.
or do you think a tank of the stove is also worth while?

Villain

Just my 2 cents, I have lived in a house for the past 2 years without any central heating including one of the coldest winters in decades. We have heating in the kitchen from a small cooker with an oil burner that also heats the water, the bedroom has a small electrical storage heater and a stove in the sitting room.

Based on that the number of radiators in my self build house will be reduced a lot, the temp in our hallway varies from 10c to 15c and is perfectly fine, I go to peoples homes now where all areas of the house are 20c + given the cost of oil that is crazy, spend the money on insulation and concentrate on heating the living spaces the rest is a waste imo now

just do it

Villain wrote: »

Just my 2 cents, I have lived in a house for the past 2 years without any central heating including one of the coldest winters in decades. We have heating in the kitchen from a small cooker with an oil burner that also heats the water, the bedroom has a small electrical storage heater and a stove in the sitting room.

Based on that the number of radiators in my self build house will be reduced a lot, the temp in our hallway varies from 10c to 15c and is perfectly fine, I go to peoples homes now where all areas of the house are 20c + given the cost of oil that is crazy, spend the money on insulation and concentrate on heating the living spaces the rest is a waste imo now

Good on you Villain, I also find most houses I visit are too hot for my liking! What level of insulation have you?

Do-more

Possedion wrote: »

does a HR not pick up lot of hot air a stove will generate.
or do you think a tank of the stove is also worth while?

The heat capacity of air is quite low and at the normal fans speeds a HRV system runs at you will not actually shift that much heat around the house.

If you are looking at a new build and you break down all the costs my own personal opinion is that any sort of stove does not make sense.

Put your money into insulation and airtightness, then when you look at how much heat your house actually needs you realise that the combined costs of stove/air supply/chimney system/wood store just doesn't make sense even if you have the fuel for free.

Whilst a stove might be able to supply all your heat and hot water you are not going to light a stove everyday during the summer for hot water so you will need something else such as solar panels (and probably immersion backup) then the combined capital cost starts to get very considerable.

sheff the ref

There are a few factors I am keeping in mind for a house that will probably be 1800 square feet plus a converted attic.

Insulation has to be a significant factor in any build. However I am led to believe that double glazed windows are actually better than triple glazed in terms or letting heat inwards from the sun on cold but sunny days. If there is a sunroom its easy put an external door between the sunroom and the main house which will provide better insulation. Heat loss through other external windows will be minimal in terms of the gain from sunlight. I assume its possible to use triple glazed for non sunny areas.

Would like to have a Stove with Back Boiler, Solar and maybe a small Oil boiler as backup. Given the insulation levels, perhaps its not necessary to have underfloor heating, and Radiators are best. It certainly would prevent horror stories about leaking underfloor heating pipework. Perhaps I might do the tiled areas with Underfloor.

What are the views on Air to Water Geothermal???? The excavation costs for the Ground Source Heat Pumps are prohibitive enough, and the alternative is to bore a hole which is equally prohibitive. Also, Geothermal is most efficient with underfloor which is another cost. Is it possible to be efficient with Rads??

sinnerboy

sheff the ref wrote: »

However I am led to believe that double glazed windows are actually better than triple glazed in terms or letting heat inwards from the sun on cold but sunny days.

True but we tend to get cold overcast days in Ireland for which the better thermal insulating qualities of triple glazing is far better.

sinnerboy

sheff the ref wrote: »

Insulation has to be a significant factor in any build.

Building regulations enforce a high level of insulation . No choice here.

sheff the ref wrote: »

Heat loss through other external windows will be minimal in terms of the gain from sunlight.

must ( by law ) by calculated using DEAP software.

sheff the ref wrote: »

Would like to have a Stove with Back Boiler, Solar and maybe a small Oil boiler as backup. Given the insulation levels, perhaps its not necessary to have underfloor heating, and Radiators are best.

Again your heating arrangement must by DEAP calculation only be shown to comply with building regulations .

I'd like to clear up an apparent mis understanding.
Rads warm a house by circulating a little water at high temperature
UFH warms a house by circulating a lot of water at low temperature

Either way the same fuel energy (oil/gas/elec) is used to warm the house.

sheff the ref wrote: »

It certainly would prevent horror stories about leaking underfloor heating pipework.

Honestly in 25 years I have not heard of any. Use good workman/women

sheff the ref wrote: »

What are the views on Air to Water Geothermal????

Means UFH is your only option. They burn too much ESB to provide water at high temperatures required for rads.

sheff the ref wrote: »

The excavation costs for the Ground Source Heat Pumps are prohibitive enough, and the alternative is to bore a hole which is equally prohibitive.

True many €€€€€s'

sheff the ref wrote: »

Also, Geothermal is most only efficient with underfloor which is another cost. Is it possible to be efficient with Rads??

No.

sheff the ref

Thanks for the replies Sinnerboy,

As a rule of thumb, which is most efficient for use with Underfloor in terms of ESB running costs? Ground Source Heatpump or Air to Water Heatpump

sinnerboy

Look here. You tell me

sheff the ref

Would need a week to go through that!!!!!

I had a figure in the back of my head from the distant past that the same ESB running costs would provide 20% less heat on an Air to Water unit. Dont ask me where I got that figure

sheff the ref

Was at the Self Build exhibition today in Millstreet. All suppliers were pushing the Air to Water Unit.

I asked about the Winter of 2010 and the effect that such lower temperatures would have on efficiency. All produced the line that 2010 was an exception etc. and not to base my heating system on 2010. I made the point that Ground Source Heat Pumps and other heating systems such as Oil, Pellets etc operate at a level of consistency and that we cannot predict what future winters will bring. Not what sales people want to hear at shows!!!!!

The one thing that I am dead set on is that whatever the heating system, if the insulation is top notch, it will take very little to heat a house as the heat will be retained. Therefore you wonder is there a need for significant investment in any heating system. Would a bog standard stove with a back boiler and a small oil boiler for emergencies do the job?? Even a shot of oil in a well insulated house for 30 minutes during the day could provide enough heat for retention till later in the evening.

I also looked at Heat Recovery Ventilation systems but I wonder about them. One of their main selling points is that you dont need to open the windows to let in fresh air, but who opens the windows on a cold day anyway?? Are they a system that reheats a house using the heat taken from outgoing air thereby lessening the reliance on the heating system, or is it a case that they are a system that simply replenishes the fresh air without heat loss??

The Parrot

technical what the hrv systems do is give you constant fresh air, and exchange the from inside into the air being pulled from the outside so you dont have the cold air killing your heat. but also when you have an airtight house with no air flow you get problems like dampness/mold so if your going for a well insulated house with a high airtighness rating you really need hrv. to have a comfortable environment.

sheff the ref

What are the running costs of HRV. Cant imagine it being light on electricity.

A lot of people I am talking to are going with Solar plus a Stove with a back boiler, and then using oil as backup for emergencies. How easy is it to control the temperature of the heat coming from the Stove though?? I would personally prefer a heating system that is not reliant on consumables like solid fuel, oil or wood pellets. The ESB cost of running Geothermal could be partly met in the future using a wind generated electricity unit. Significantly enough I didnt see any display that had wind at Millstreet

BryanF

sheff the ref wrote: »

What are the running costs of HRV. Cant imagine it being light on electricity.

A lot of people I am talking to are going with Solar plus a Stove with a back boiler, and then using oil as backup for emergencies. How easy is it to control the temperature of the heat coming from the Stove though?? I would personally prefer a heating system that is not reliant on consumables like solid fuel, oil or wood pellets. The ESB cost of running Geothermal could be partly met in the future using a wind generated electricity unit. Significantly enough I didnt see any display that had wind at Millstreet

Lots going on here, but can I ask have you carried out a BEr assessment or better a passive house assessment?

sheff the ref

I am building a Block Wall Bungalow with a converted attic and a standard V roof (Concrete Built is Better Built). Wouldnt be interested in a Passive house to be honest. That said, this one doesnt look too unlike a normal 2 storey

http://www.viking-house.ie/certified-passive-house.html

BryanF wrote: »

Lots going on here, but can I ask have you carried out a BEr assessment or better a passive house assessment?

beyondpassive

Sheff

If your planning was submitted after the 1st of december 2011 then your building spec is required to at least match that timber frame 'passive house' in the link.

The minimum construction standard is now pretty damn close to Passivhaus.

For instance in 2007/8 if you were building, your energy demand per square meter couldn't exceed 150kWh/m2.an (incl DHW, pumps fans and lights) by 2009 that had dropped to 90kWh/m2.a, in 2012 its 60kWh/m2.an. By comparison a Passivhaus is 45kWh/m2.an when measured through DEAP.

I like your comment on 'Normal houses' but what exactly is normal?Passivhaus or Part L compliant houses don't necessarily have to be contemporary. There are a number of examples of even mock Georgian or faux Victoriana style Passive houses. Luckily for some there's no regulation for bad or lazy design. Personally, If you want authentic Georgian, then you shouldn't be allowed contemporary indoor plumbing. Its important to respect the form and settlement patterns of traditional buildings, but with modern materials and components. It seems most one off buildings in the countryside have a badly proportioned Georgian facade laminated on to the front elevation which makes for a very confusing layout and side elevations. A contemporary design led approach would seem to make a better fit for low energy projects.

just do it

sheff the ref wrote: »

I am building a Block Wall Bungalow with a converted attic and a standard V roof (Concrete Built is Better Built). Wouldnt be interested in a Passive house to be honest. That said, this one doesnt look too unlike a normal 2 storey

http://www.viking-house.ie/certified-passive-house.html

Why are you not interested in passive?

I note the house in the link doesn't state certified passive house. Passive is banded about quite a bit these days but an authenetic passive house is one which is certified by the passiv haus institute. Otherwise you're taking someone's good word for it. (By the way I'm not saying the house in the link isn't, but it might be worth you're while researching/ searching on this forum a bit more).

The Parrot

personal on the build im looking at. i want to in the end run solar plumbed into a 1000 lt buffer tank with a solid wood gasifying burner in the back room. i intend to run the 18kw version. if my funds allow. but i may have to do it in a staged system with a decently insulated house and hrv with alot of south glazing i feel this set up should easily keep my house warm.