Sega Saturn questions

CathalDublin · 30-04-2010 12:22pm #1

Anyone any idea of the weight of the console?
I have an opportunity to get one with 10 games for €50.
I'm sending stuff back home to Ireland on Wednesday anyway and wondering if its worth squeezing it in.
Bare in mind I've never actually played one:rolleyes:

o1s1n · 30-04-2010 12:24pm

Is it an NTSC console? If it's PAL don't bother. Cost me about 20 euro to have mine shipped from Japan if that's any help.

CathalDublin · 30-04-2010 12:30pm

Cheers
Never even thought to ask him, checking with the dude now, think its pal though

o1s1n · 30-04-2010 12:34pm

Ack, don't go near a pal one. Sure all the games will be slowed down. Even if you get an import adapter.

Best thing to do (next to modding it) is to import a Japanese one and get an action replay cart to play PAL & NTSC english games. (Pal games will then play in the proper 60hz speed)

Myrddin · 30-04-2010 4:06pm

o1s1n wrote: »

Ack, don't go near a pal one. Sure all the games will be slowed down. Even if you get an import adapter.

Best thing to do (next to modding it) is to import a Japanese one and get an action replay cart to play PAL & NTSC english games. (Pal games will then play in the proper 60hz speed)

Actually the mod isnt too bad

KeRbDoG · 30-04-2010 7:28pm

o1s1n wrote: »

Ack, don't go near a pal one. Sure all the games will be slowed down. Even if you get an import adapter.

Best thing to do (next to modding it) is to import a Japanese one and get an action replay cart to play PAL & NTSC english games. (Pal games will then play in the proper 60hz speed)

The PAL 60Hz mod looks easy enough...wonder if CiDeRmAn would want it done...

http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/console/sega/saturn5060.htm

dlofnep · 30-04-2010 7:30pm

o1s1n wrote: »

Ack, don't go near a pal one. Sure all the games will be slowed down. Even if you get an import adapter.

Best thing to do (next to modding it) is to import a Japanese one and get an action replay cart to play PAL & NTSC english games. (Pal games will then play in the proper 60hz speed)

How are they slowed down?

KeRbDoG · 30-04-2010 7:32pm

dlofnep wrote: »

How are they slowed down?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL_region

Have a read there sir.
"NTSC standard is 60 fields/30 frames per second but PAL is 50 fields/25 frames per second, games were typically slowed down by approximately 17.5% in order to avoid timing problems or unfeasible code changes"

dlofnep · 30-04-2010 7:36pm

Oh ok, thanks

o1s1n · 30-04-2010 7:37pm

EnterNow wrote: »

Actually the mod isnt too bad

Oh really? Is it similar to other earier Sega consoles or do you need a mod chip?

kerbdog wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL_region

Have a read there sir.
"NTSC standard is 60 fields/30 frames per second but PAL is 50 fields/25 frames per second, games were typically slowed down by approximately 17.5% in order to avoid timing problems or unfeasible code changes"

Yep, to put it in other words, us European folk have been screwed for years.

amacachi · 30-04-2010 7:46pm

Am I right in thinking that it would've been possibly to make the games at 50Hz but run at the same "speed" but just with less frames but the developers were just too damn lazy?

o1s1n · 30-04-2010 7:48pm

Some games have been PAL omtimized. Like Donkey Kong Country as it was made in Europe as far as I know.

But for the most part they've been slowed down. Especially anything earlier then the 32 bit era. A 60hz switch or else an NTSC console is really essential.

Myrddin · 30-04-2010 8:11pm

o1s1n wrote: »

Oh really? Is it similar to other earier Sega consoles or do you need a mod chip?

Yep, to put it in other words, us European folk have been screwed for years.

Works the same as the Megadrive o1s1n, no mod chip required dude.

CathalDublin · 30-04-2010 10:28pm

kerbdog wrote: »

The PAL 60Hz mod looks easy enough...wonder if CiDeRmAn would want it done...
http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/console/sega/saturn5060.htm

mod looks simple, could do that in a few minutes
Hmmmm still considering purchase:D

o1s1n · 30-04-2010 10:35pm

EnterNow wrote: »

Works the same as the Megadrive o1s1n, no mod chip required dude.

Serious? I thought they'd have introduced more security measures for the Saturn. Madness.

Got my bag of SPDT switches today. Currently trying to get an oscillator. They didn't have any in Maplin! I even got the guy at the counter to look through their catalog book.

I think I'm gonna have to ebay this one.

CathalDublin wrote: »

mod looks simple, could do that in a few minutes
Hmmmm still considering purchase:D

The main Sega Tech guy over on sega-16 was saying that rather than lift the pin from the motherboard, cut the trace that comes out of it and solder your wire to that. (Well that was in relation to the MD mod, but this looks more or less the same)

KeRbDoG · 30-04-2010 10:50pm

o1s1n wrote: »

The main Sega Tech guy over on sega-16 was saying that rather than lift the pin from the motherboard, cut the trace that comes out of it and solder your wire to that. (Well that was in relation to the MD mod, but this looks more or less the same)

The last pic/note in that 'mmmonkey' site shows yea how to do the cut-trace method for the Saturn too

97i9y3941 · 30-04-2010 11:11pm

o1s1n wrote: »

Got my bag of SPDT switches today. Currently trying to get an oscillator. They didn't have any in Maplin! I even got the guy at the counter to look through their catalog book.
I think I'm gonna have to ebay this one.

cpc farrell*which i like to think of it as an irish version of maplin* probably have one,but they postage is pretty dear,they are quick so maybe reason delivery is expensive*i remember i had a man with his van and the bigbox to bring a small cable!*,anyways heres the site

http://cpcireland.farnell.com/

CathalDublin · 01-05-2010 2:39am

o1s1n wrote: »

Serious? I thought they'd have introduced more security measures for the Saturn. Madness.

Got my bag of SPDT switches today. Currently trying to get an oscillator. They didn't have any in Maplin! I even got the guy at the counter to look through their catalog book.

I think I'm gonna have to ebay this one.

Peats on parnell street might have, also maplin should order it from the uk branch for you, should only take about 2-3days

or you could try donberg.ie

Myrddin · 01-05-2010 10:18am

Or Radionics might have them too.

Ive three modded Saturns, and I dont remember lifting pins on any of them, its all trace cutting and soldering to jumper points. Some saturns you can add the CD Access LED which was removed by SEGA for cost cutting too. I put mine on the front of the console, looks pretty good.

Butch Cassidy · 02-05-2010 2:41am

o1s1n wrote: »

Is it an NTSC console? If it's PAL don't bother. Cost me about 20 euro to have mine shipped from Japan if that's any help.

I don't see the negativity towards a pal Saturn? Surely it's better than no Pal Saturn?

I saw a Saturn with a pad on its own in Gamestation a while ago for £10 and was going to get it. Passed in the end though....

kerbdog wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL_region

Have a read there sir.
"NTSC standard is 60 fields/30 frames per second but PAL is 50 fields/25 frames per second, games were typically slowed down by approximately 17.5% in order to avoid timing problems or unfeasible code changes"

Pal and Pal TVs are 25FPS surely? I don't really understand how this slowing down of a game is so bad.

o1s1n wrote: »

Yep, to put it in other words, us European folk have been screwed for years.

It's the Japs and Yanks that have been making them! Surely the Australians, Africans, South Americans and everyone else has been getting "screwed"?

amacachi · 02-05-2010 3:06am

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

It's the Japs and Yanks that have been making them! Surely the Australians, Africans, South Americans and everyone else has been getting "screwed"?

Yep the yanks and Japs were making them and screwing us and other PAL areas over for years. It's perfectly possible to make a PAL conversion work well but they rarely bothered. It's kinda hard to explain, but if you take TV as an example, it's generally shot in way more than 25 or 30 fps, so it transfers fine. On the other hand with old games, they didn't run in "realtime". Rather than have a certain amount of action happen in 1 second and it then being represented by either 25 or 30 frames, they were designed to have a certain amount of action per frame. This then means that for something that takes 10 seconds on NTSC will take 12 seconds on PAL. They could have done proper conversions in "realtime" but rarely bothered their arses. The ironic thing is that even Wii, PSN and 360 downloads of old games are often PAL versions here, when the NTSC will run fine, but the publishers don't seem to care, so from what I've heard a lot of the time downloading a game from the US PSN is better than downloading it from the EU PSN even neglecting the cost.

CiDeRmAn · 02-05-2010 8:31am

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

I don't see the negativity towards a pal Saturn? Surely it's better than no Pal Saturn?
Pal and Pal TVs are 25FPS surely? I don't really understand how this slowing down of a game is so bad.

Gods man!
Don't let Retro hear you say any of that or he'll hunt you down and kill you!
Or make you play Panzer Dragoon Saga to change your mind, which wouldn't be quite so bad,
now I'm confused!

Retr0gamer · 02-05-2010 6:43pm

You enjoy your slow games then :P

o1s1n · 03-05-2010 2:18pm

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

I don't see the negativity towards a pal Saturn? Surely it's better than no Pal Saturn?

I'll make a comparison. Would you use a DVD player that slowed your films down by 17%?

Would you use a CD player that played your music 17% slower?

Obviously not. You live in an age where you can get CD and DVD players that work at full speed, why would you settle for something slowed down and butchered?

The same applies to PAL videogames consoles. Don't go near them.

Retr0gamer · 03-05-2010 2:39pm

Anyone that doesn't think it makes a difference should check this out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYdHUZlb7qs

You'll actually feel it when playing both versions of the game, the NTSC version is much smoother and plays a lot better.

Atavan-Halen · 03-05-2010 5:22pm

It really does make a difference. I never noticed it myself until I got a Genesis and it really surprised me. I have a PAL saturn but it doesn't bother me as I only have 4 games for it and there's nothing I really want to play on it yet. Also most of the jap ones are white, and they look much much nicer than the black pal ones ^.^

Myrddin · 03-05-2010 6:38pm

Great demonstration in that video. It makes a massive difference, depending on the console, its worth either buying NTSC or modding. (modding saves on transformers, step downs etc).

I fit a display switch to my Saturn, and the difference playing Alpha 2 is really amazing. Pal games are seriously crippled.

Butch Cassidy · 03-05-2010 7:20pm

o1s1n wrote: »

I'll make a comparison. Would you use a DVD player that slowed your films down by 17%?

Would you use a CD player that played your music 17% slower?

Obviously not. You live in an age where you can get CD and DVD players that work at full speed, why would you settle for something slowed down and butchered?

The same applies to PAL videogames consoles. Don't go near them.

I had no choice. I took whatever console Santa brough us every few years.....

Sega Saturn questions

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