Discrimination? Is this allowed?

purplekitty

I was applying for a job in a new big store opening in Portlaoise and on the back of the application form they had a sheet asking
*Are you Roman Catholic
*Protestant
*Neither of the above
Failure to complete the questionaire will result in the application not being processes.
i was shocked that they can still do this!
Can they?

Dazd_N_Confusd

So catholicism is now a race? Fair enough!

How about you just answer the question? BTW, I'm presuming you're not religious. I have a feeling that if they're asking this then maybe this organisation takes religion more seriously than the average person so maybe it would be a good idea to lie and say your catholic! :eek:

sasser

Not allowed to ask afaik, can't discriminate on basis of religious beliefs or lack thereof

LegacyUser

OP point it out to them and see if they employ you

LegacyUser

If they used this as a criteria for selection then it would be considered discrimination based on your religious beliefs which in Ireland is prohibited under the Employment Equality Act.

However this question may not necessarily be to collect data which will rule you out. It may be for the purposes of positive discrimination, or just data that the company like to hold re employees in the case of an emergency, eg if you were to have a fatal accident so they would know if they should call a Catholic Priest or otherwise.

lazygal

Being a religion is not a race. If you have a problem with it maybe they are not a company you want to work for or else just mark it as no religion.

That's not racism. I'm pretty sure it is illegal though. Although almost all NI application forms have that question, I'm fairly sure it's not obligatory to answer it.

antoinolachtnai

This sounds like a mistake to me.

In general this is not an OK thing to do. It is not acceptable to decide who to give jobs to on the basis of their religious observance. In some circumstances it is allowed or necessary to give this information for statistical reasons, but not, as far as I know, in the Republic of Ireland. I would say that there is some mistake. I would just ring their HR department and ask why they want to know this. If it isn't a mistake, ask them if it's their usual practice.

seamus

It's not racism, and yes it's perfectly legal/allowed to ask this question.

The problem actually lies in the hiring process. If someone can show that their application was treated differently because of the answer that they gave to that question, they would have a right to sue under the Equal Status Act.

In Northern Ireland, employers are required to submit a return every so often detailing the numbers of catholics & protestants, male & female, being employed by the organisation or who have applied to work in the organisation. This is for statistical equality purposes, not for discrimination purposes. So the employer is obliged to asked as part of the hiring process but cannot discriminate based on the answer.

If the new store's parent company is from Northern Ireland or the UK, then it's likely that they just copied all of the forms and the like from the NI stores and didn't think about the implications.

I would point out the obvious error to the HR person and how much of a fall they're setting themselves up for.

MicraBoy

The excemption to Equality legisation on religious grounds usually applies to religious, educational and medical institutions which may be trying to protect a certain ethos. Can't see how it applies to a store.

Unless it is because if you are Protestant or catholic it means that you have an excuse for not working on a Sunday or religious holidays. That might be for their records not because they will discriminate against anyone.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Thats the form for Northern IReland. Is it a British company? They would be obliged to ask that in Northern Ireland and often British companies have an all Ireland policy for logistics.

Up here for every job you have to fill out an equality form with what I think is a funny footnote:

I am a member of

A. The Protestant Community
B. The Roman Catholic Community
C.Neither*

*Whether we practice religion or not, most of us in Northern Ireland are considered Protestants or Roman Catholics. If you choose this option your background will be designated based on available information.

So the OP actually is kind of right about racism, as I'd imagine someone from a catholic background who converted to evangelism/islam etc would still be expected to choose option b

MagicSean

If those questions were on a seperate sheet they are most likely for statistical purposes and not being used for the purpose of hiring. They have questionaires like that for most public service jobs.

krudler

I'd pick secret option C: Ninja.

seenitall

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Thats the form for Northern IReland. Is it a British company? They would be obliged to ask that in Northern Ireland and often British companies have an all Ireland policy for logistics.

Up here for every job you have to fill out an equality form with what I think is a funny footnote:

I am a member of

A. The Protestant Community
B. The Roman Catholic Community
C.Neither*

*Whether we practice religion or not, most of us in Northern Ireland are considered Protestants or Roman Catholics. If you choose this option your background will be designated based on available information.

So the OP actually is kind of right about racism, as I'd imagine someone from a catholic background who converted to evangelism/islam etc would still be expected to choose option b

The bit in bold sounds really, really iffy and yucky, tbh. (Not doubting the veracity of your statement, Bottle of Smoke, just taking a moment to process such a ridiculous state of affairs as that - I am not from this part of the world originally). I agree with you there, THAT certainly would be about discrimination!

purplekitty

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I am a member of

A. The Protestant Community
B. The Roman Catholic Community
C.Neither*

*Whether we practice religion or not, most of us in Northern Ireland are considered Protestants or Roman Catholics. If you choose this option your background will be designated based on available information.

So the OP actually is kind of right about racism, as I'd imagine someone from a catholic background who converted to evangelism/islam etc would still be expected to choose option b

Thats exactly what they said!!!
Thanks everyone for your replies!
I WILL SAY IT TO THEM!!! (after i get the job) (naturally) lol

whatsamsn

You think thats bad?
I had an interview a few years ago for Boarders in the blanchardstown shopping centre (they're now gone) On the application form it asks a question .... "what sexes are you attracted too?" A, opposites B, same sex C, both.

They actually asked that question.

goose2005

It's possibly so that they know who to roster over Christmas, but it seems odd. I know they're not allowed to ask about marital status or whether a woman is planning to have a baby, so I doubt they're allowed to ask about religion.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Thats the form for Northern IReland. Is it a British company? They would be obliged to ask that in Northern Ireland and often British companies have an all Ireland policy for logistics.

Up here for every job you have to fill out an equality form with what I think is a funny footnote:

I am a member of

A. The Protestant Community
B. The Roman Catholic Community
C.Neither*

*Whether we practice religion or not, most of us in Northern Ireland are considered Protestants or Roman Catholics. If you choose this option your background will be designated based on available information.

So the OP actually is kind of right about racism, as I'd imagine someone from a catholic background who converted to evangelism/islam etc would still be expected to choose option b

I've always thought that was pretty disgraceful. Basically, they're saying 'if you don't tick Catholic or Protestant, we'll assume you're not one of US'. Or 'we'll base it on your last name'. I'm white and my family's Irish/English and I don't belong to either 'community'. Some of my relatives are practicing Catholics, others are practicing Protestants and I don't go to church at all. I imagine there must be a considerable amount of people in this position. It's pretty shocking that they just assume that everyone is either one thing or another thing. It's also interesting that I've never once been offered a job in Northern Ireland despite applying for quite a few over the years. I wonder if they thought I was being awkward by stating I was not a member of any 'community'. What a horrid place.

MagicSean

[quote=[Deleted User];65667785]I've always thought that was pretty disgraceful. Basically, they're saying 'if you don't tick Catholic or Protestant, we'll assume you're not one of US'. Or 'we'll base it on your last name'. I'm white and my family's Irish/English and I don't belong to either 'community'. Some of my relatives are practicing Catholics, others are practicing Protestants and I don't go to church at all. I imagine there must be a considerable amount of people in this position. It's pretty shocking that they just assume that everyone is either one thing or another thing. It's also interesting that I've never once been offered a job in Northern Ireland despite applying for quite a few over the years. I wonder if they thought I was being awkward by stating I was not a member of any 'community'. What a horrid place.[/QUOTE]

Maybe you just aren't a good candidate. You've got quite the persecution complex. I would think someone who falls in the neither category would be more appealing to most employers in Northern Ireland, especially in the government departments who would be required to have a balanced number of each.

Overheal

purplekitty wrote: »

I was applying for a job in a new big store opening in Portlaoise and on the back of the application form they had a sheet asking
*Are you Roman Catholic
*Protestant
*Neither of the above
Failure to complete the questionaire will result in the application not being processes.
i was shocked that they can still do this!
Can they?

I can tell you now that in the United States, thats a federal offense that can be met with a steep fine for each violation.

http://www.hrworld.com/features/30-interview-questions-111507/

MagicSean

Overheal wrote: »

I can tell you now that in the United States, thats a federal offense that can be met with a steep fine for each violation.

http://www.hrworld.com/features/30-interview-questions-111507/

But in Ireland aren't their certain grounds under which the equal rights act doesn't apply?

seenitall

k_mac wrote: »

Maybe you just aren't a good candidate. You've got quite the persecution complex. I would think someone who falls in the neither category would be more appealing to most employers in Northern Ireland, especially in the government departments who would be required to have a balanced number of each.

You don't need to have a persecution complex to know that someone trying to put a religious label on you "based on available information" (your surname, presumably) after you have declared yourself not belonging to a religion defies logic and has everything to do with bigotry and discrimination.

If something is espoused in law, it still doesn't make it ethical or "right".

Overheal

k_mac wrote: »

But in Ireland aren't their certain grounds under which the equal rights act doesn't apply?

You need to talk with a lawyer about that. Im just telling you what can and cannot be asked by an employer in the United States.

LegacyUser

I cannot believe they asked you that in this day and age- Employment Equality Atc 1998 and Equal Status Act 2000 forbid this totally- I would say say it even if you dont get the job- in fact ask about that espcially if you don't!

As for asking about someones sexual preference on a form- its a ****in disgrace and highly illegal! Tese busineeses deserve to be put of of business with fines!

Victor

Thread title changed. Can people responding to this thread put their brains in gear before typing? OP, this isn't aimed at you.

---

In all likelihood this is a statistical / anti-discrimination measure, not a discriminatory one.

purplekitty wrote: »

on the back of the application form they had a sheet

Two sheets? The one with this bit having no ID?

whatsamsn wrote: »

You think thats bad?
I had an interview a few years ago for Boarders in the blanchardstown shopping centre (they're now gone) On the application form it asks a question .... "what sexes are you attracted too?" A, opposites B, same sex C, both.

They actually asked that question.

Likewise, although to be honest you come across as being offended by the question as opposed to the implication.

Overheal

Shocked!!! wrote: »

I cannot believe they asked you that in this day and age- Employment Equality Atc 1998 and Equal Status Act 2000 forbid this totally- I would say say it even if you dont get the job- in fact ask about that espcially if you don't!

As for asking about someones sexual preference on a form- its a ****in disgrace and highly illegal! Tese busineeses deserve to be put of of business with fines!

Well if youre going to say it to the employer, get in contact with the department responsible for enforcing the ESA and EEA. Whatever organization looks after enforcement of those acts will take or advise you on the proper course of action.

k_mac

k_mac wrote: »

Maybe you just aren't a good candidate. You've got quite the persecution complex. I would think someone who falls in the neither category would be more appealing to most employers in Northern Ireland, especially in the government departments who would be required to have a balanced number of each.

Persecution complex? Have you ever lived in Northern Ireland? How amusing that you make such assumptions based on your obvious total lack of knowledge of the whole matter. I've never had a problem getting jobs anywhere else outside NI. I was employed all through the recession and continue to be employed despite being a full time postgrad student for which I got a prestigious scholarship. Isn't it VERY strange that NI is the only place I've never been offered so much as an interview? Open your god damn eyes. The form itself states that if you don't provide the information they want they'll ASSUME you come from X or Y community. Based on your last name and based on where you went to school. Do you find that normal in any way, shape or form? Because I certainly don't. Only someone who was brought up in that ridiculous, closed minded place would find that question and that bullying statement ("if you don't tell us, we'll decide for ourselves") acceptable.

If you knew anything about employers in Northern Ireland, you'd know that they prefer to know your background. Someone who ticks 'neither' isn't helping them to meet their quota of Catholics or Protestants. And from what I've heard, they see you as awkward and non-conformist for not going along with the whole ridiculous game. Unfortunately, it's difficult to make their 'assumptions' about me, as I tick 'no religion', went to a Protestant school and have a Catholic last name. I refuse to be bullied into labeling myself when I genuinely identify with neither 'community'. Luckily I haven't had to live there outside of a summer or two during university and honestly, if I had to go back to my parent's after my postgrad, I'd commute to Dublin. I don't want any part of that crap.

It IS discrimination. Pure and simple. You should not be forced into giving your religious background on an application form, no matter what pretext it's under.

MagicSean

[quote=[Deleted User];65674879]Persecution complex? Have you ever lived in Northern Ireland? How amusing that you make such assumptions based on your obvious total lack of knowledge of the whole matter. I've never had a problem getting jobs anywhere else outside NI. I was employed all through the recession and continue to be employed despite being a full time postgrad student for which I got a prestigious scholarship. Isn't it VERY strange that NI is the only place I've never been offered so much as an interview? Open your god damn eyes. The form itself states that if you don't provide the information they want they'll ASSUME you come from X or Y community. Based on your last name and based on where you went to school. Do you find that normal in any way, shape or form? Because I certainly don't. Only someone who was brought up in that ridiculous, closed minded place would find that question and that bullying statement ("if you don't tell us, we'll decide for ourselves") acceptable.

If you knew anything about employers in Northern Ireland, you'd know that they prefer to know your background. Someone who ticks 'neither' isn't helping them to meet their quota of Catholics or Protestants. And from what I've heard, they see you as awkward and non-conformist for not going along with the whole ridiculous game. Unfortunately, it's difficult to make their 'assumptions' about me, as I tick 'no religion', went to a Protestant school and have a Catholic last name. I refuse to be bullied into labeling myself when I genuinely identify with neither 'community'. Luckily I haven't had to live there outside of a summer or two during university and honestly, if I had to go back to my parent's after my postgrad, I'd commute to Dublin. I don't want any part of that crap.

It IS discrimination. Pure and simple. You should not be forced into giving your religious background on an application form, no matter what pretext it's under.[/QUOTE]

It's normal for Northern Ireland. Almost everyone you meet from up there will decide your background based on your name and accent.

They don't have to fill quotas of catholics and protestants. They have to maintain a balance in their workforce. But lets say you are right though. Lets say you applied to a protestant company who refused to employ you because you were not protestant. Would you want to work there? Knowing that you would be treated differently due to your religion.

k_mac

k_mac wrote: »

It's normal for Northern Ireland. Almost everyone you meet from up there will decide your background based on your name and accent.

They don't have to fill quotas of catholics and protestants. They have to maintain a balance in their workforce. But lets say you are right though. Lets say you applied to a protestant company who refused to employ you because you were not protestant. Would you want to work there? Knowing that you would be treated differently due to your religion.

Just because it's done doesn't mean it's acceptable. The more people pander to these idiots, the longer it's going to go on. It's one thing when someone you meet in pub decides your background, it's another when the situation affects your chances of getting a job.

And as for they don't have to fill quotas of Catholics and Protestants - how on earth else do you think they maintain a 'balance'? You really haven't thought this through, have you? You're not getting the point. No, of course I wouldn't want to work in a place which discriminated based on my religion. But the point is, I don't HAVE a religion. I don't HAVE a 'community'. I am basically being forced to PICK one side of the other, or be seen as an awkward trouble maker or a foreigner, neither of which are desirable to employers. That's ridiculous. My background is absolutely none of anyone's business, and if I decide not to disclose that stuff about myself, it shouldn't lead to me not being selected for interview. But it does.

MagicSean

[quote=[Deleted User];65676344]And as for they don't have to fill quotas of Catholics and Protestants - how on earth else do you think they maintain a 'balance'? You really haven't thought this through, have you? You're not getting the point.[/QUOTE]

OK I'll do the math for you. Lets take a company that has 20 employees and they are required to have a balance of Catholics and Protestants. Your reasoning is that they would have 10 of each. However if they have 10 employees of neither religion that would mean they only have to hire 5 of each reducing the burden on them to hire from those specific religions.

[quote=[Deleted User];65676344]No, of course I wouldn't want to work in a place which discriminated based on my religion. But the point is, I don't HAVE a religion. I don't HAVE a 'community'. I am basically being forced to PICK one side of the other, or be seen as an awkward trouble maker or a foreigner, neither of which are desirable to employers. That's ridiculous. My background is absolutely none of anyone's business, and if I decide not to disclose that stuff about myself, it shouldn't lead to me not being selected for interview. But it does.[/QUOTE]

Have you considered that the company might want to put people of similar community backgrounds together to reduce workplace tensions?

k_mac

k_mac wrote: »

OK I'll do the math for you. Lets take a company that has 20 employees and they are required to have a balance of Catholics and Protestants. Your reasoning is that they would have 10 of each. However if they have 10 employees of neither religion that would mean they only have to hire 5 of each reducing the burden on them to hire from those specific religions.

Except it doesn't work like that. That's why they basically tell you that you HAVE to choose one, or they'll choose for you. That's my entire point. 'Neither' is NOT an option in many cases.

Have you considered that the company might want to put people of similar community backgrounds together to reduce workplace tensions?

That is just as ridiculous. Do you really think that's acceptable in the EU in 2010? Apartheid? That they're doing me a favour not putting me in with the Prods because I'd be alienated? Jesus Christ.

MagicSean

[quote=[Deleted User];65677631]Except it doesn't work like that. That's why they basically tell you that you HAVE to choose one, or they'll choose for you. That's my entire point. 'Neither' is NOT an option in many cases. [/QUOTE]

Sorry I thought you were the op. In the ops case "neither" was an option.

[quote=[Deleted User];65677631]That is just as ridiculous. Do you really think that's acceptable in the EU in 2010? Apartheid? That they're doing me a favour not putting me in with the Prods because I'd be alienated? Jesus Christ.[/QUOTE]

It's hardly apartheid. Its common sense in a place were religious tensions are often at boiling point and any serious incident can polarise communities against each other. In fact it would be negligent for a company to ignore this. You speak like Europe 2010 is the pinacle of human evolution. Come back to the real world. The two main countries in Europe, Germany and France, are run by christian fanatics and racists respectively. You can go on about your rights all you like but at a certain point common sense has to take priority.

seenitall

k_mac wrote: »

Sorry I thought you were the op. In the ops case "neither" was an option.

Wrong. OP later on the thread (in her second post) went on to explain that the option of 'neither' was qualified with a statement of "If you tick 'neither', we will bunk you in with the religious group of our own choosing anyway, just because we can" (paraphrasing slightly). That is not really giving someone much of a choice of "neither", now, is it?

k_mac wrote: »

It's hardly apartheid. Its common sense in a place were religious tensions are often at boiling point and any serious incident can polarise communities against each other. In fact it would be negligent for a company to ignore this. You speak like Europe 2010 is the pinacle of human evolution. Come back to the real world. The two main countries in Europe, Germany and France, are run by christian fanatics and racists respectively. You can go on about your rights all you like but at a certain point common sense has to take priority.

Wrong again. Any company that panders to the religious tensions of their employees has no ethical standards to speak of and should have no place in civilised society. Pandering to religious tensions and divisons in workplace is perpetuating the bigotry and segragation and is certainly no help at all to advancing peace and acceptance. So much for common sense.

Imagine them pulling that sort of siht on Muslims?! Heads would roll. (figuratively speaking!)

France and Germany ran by fanatics and racists? Not the last time I checked, no. What is funny is that the same person who is suggesting this has accused someone making reasoned arguments on this thread of having a persecution complex.

k_mac

k_mac wrote: »

It's hardly apartheid. Its common sense in a place were religious tensions are often at boiling point and any serious incident can polarise communities against each other. In fact it would be negligent for a company to ignore this. You speak like Europe 2010 is the pinacle of human evolution. Come back to the real world. The two main countries in Europe, Germany and France, are run by christian fanatics and racists respectively. You can go on about your rights all you like but at a certain point common sense has to take priority.

That's exactly what it is. Creating false barriers just encourages the division of the community and not hiring someone because they're the 'wrong' religion is discrimination, pure and simple. It's not OK to make someone disclose their racial background so why is it OK to do this?

One moment you're telling me I have a victim mentality and that I wasn't hired because I'm a bad candidate, the next you're saying that employers do have reason to discriminate on 'religious' grounds. Which is it? The way you keep chopping and changing and coming up with new arguments to suit whatever point you're currently trying to make, just makes it obvious that you've never repeatedly lost out on work because you're the 'wrong' religion, or refuse to disclose it, that you really have no idea how Northern Ireland works, and that you're unaware of just how sinister and often pointless these questions really are. Not only is it discrimination not to hire X or Y because of the community they belong to, but many people belong to NEITHER. If you put down 'neither' but your last name is O'Malley, they WILL assume you are a Catholic. And as Bottle_of_Smoke pointed out, they are actually brazen enough to state this on the form. If you think that sort of crap has any place in an EU country, I don't know what more I can say. I've worked in the ROI, UK, US, Spain, France and Belgium and I've never seen anything like it.

MagicSean

[quote=[Deleted User];65678667]That's exactly what it is. Creating false barriers just encourages the division of the community and not hiring someone because they're the 'wrong' religion is discrimination, pure and simple. It's not OK to make someone disclose their racial background so why is it OK to do this?

One moment you're telling me I have a victim mentality and that I wasn't hired because I'm a bad candidate, the next you're saying that employers do have reason to discriminate on 'religious' grounds. Which is it? The way you keep chopping and changing and coming up with new arguments to suit whatever point you're currently trying to make, just makes it obvious that you've never repeatedly lost out on work because you're the 'wrong' religion, or refuse to disclose it, that you really have no idea how Northern Ireland works, and that you're unaware of just how sinister and often pointless these questions really are. Not only is it discrimination not to hire X or Y because of the community they belong to, but many people belong to NEITHER. If you put down 'neither' but your last name is O'Malley, they WILL assume you are a Catholic. And as Bottle_of_Smoke pointed out, they are actually brazen enough to state this on the form. If you think that sort of crap has any place in an EU country, I don't know what more I can say. I've worked in the ROI, UK, US, Spain, France and Belgium and I've never seen anything like it.[/QUOTE]

I said you have a persecution complex because you assume that you didn't get the jobs because of your religion and have not given any reason why you think that. Was it given as a reason or are you basing it purely on the fact that you were asked your religion?

I know plenty about how NI works. I don't think you understand how bad it can get. You could have an office full of happy workers and then an incident like Holy Cross could happen and all of a sudden the place is divided and tensions are high. Surely management should be able to plan for incidents like this. Like I said, it would be negligent if they didn't. What if two employees happened to be quite fanatical and opposite religions and got in a fight. You can bet management would be questioned on why they allowed to people with those kind of attitudes would be put working together.

I never said it wasn't discriminatory to hire on the basis of these questions. You are assuming that the questions are for the purpose of hiring. What I said was that there could be other reasons for asking. Don't assume I don't know what I'm talking about. I was previously refused a job on the basis of "positive" racial discrimination.

And before you talk about the EU being so great again. Might I remind you that Belgium and France both want to ban women from practicing their religion by going out in public with their face concealed. Hardly the land of the free. Of course you might not appreciate that as over there you were the "right" religion.

seenitall

k_mac wrote: »

I said you have a persecution complex because you assume that you didn't get the jobs because of your religion and have not given any reason why you think that. Was it given as a reason or are you basing it purely on the fact that you were asked your religion?

I know plenty about how NI works. I don't think you understand how bad it can get. You could have an office full of happy workers and then an incident like Holy Cross could happen and all of a sudden the place is divided and tensions are high. Surely management should be able to plan for incidents like this. Like I said, it would be negligent if they didn't. What if two employees happened to be quite fanatical and opposite religions and got in a fight. You can bet management would be questioned on why they allowed to people with those kind of attitudes would be put working together.

I never said it wasn't discriminatory to hire on the basis of these questions. You are assuming that the questions are for the purpose of hiring. What I said was that there could be other reasons for asking. Don't assume I don't know what I'm talking about. I was previously refused a job on the basis of "positive" racial discrimination.

And before you talk about the EU being so great again. Might I remind you that Belgium and France both want to ban women from practicing their religion by going out in public with their face concealed. Hardly the land of the free. Of course you might not appreciate that as over there you were the "right" religion.

Wrong. Belgium and France are banning any concealment of face on the basis of public security, nothing to do with any religion whatsoever. Times are changing, terrorism is rising as a concern and a threat to public safety all the time, and therefore laws will change to reflect these issues.

"Land of the free"? That is USA... I think...

Let me tell you, as someone who was born and raised outside of EU but lived the last 10 years inside it, there is no comparison as to level of civilisation and acceptance and tolerance the countries of the EU display toward all and any minorities, compared to that outside it. It is a feckin beacon of light as far as I am concerned. Which is why I was so surprised and tbh appalled at discovering this thread.

MagicSean

seenitall wrote: »

Wrong. Belgium and France are banning any concealment of face on the basis of public security, nothing to do with any religion whatsoever. Times are changing, terrorism is rising as a concern and a threat to public safety all the time, and therefore laws will change to reflect these issues.

My statement is still correct. There maybe a good reason for it but they are still discriminating on the grounds of religion.

seenitall wrote: »

"Land of the free"? That is USA... I think...

Yes. But I wasn't actually using the phrase in reference to them.

seenitall wrote: »

Let me tell you, as someone who was born and raised outside of EU but lived the last 10 years inside it, there is no comparison as to level of civilisation and acceptance and tolerance the countries of the EU display toward all and any minorities, compared to that outside it. It is a feckin beacon of light as far as I am concerned. Which is why I was so surprised and tbh appalled at discovering this thread.

The EU may have great principles but the member countrys may not always follow them.

seenitall

seenitall wrote: »

Wrong. Belgium and France are banning any concealment of face on the basis of public security, nothing to do with any religion whatsoever. Times are changing, terrorism is rising as a concern and a threat to public safety all the time, and therefore laws will change to reflect these issues.

My statement is still correct. There maybe a good reason for it but they are still discriminating on the grounds of religion.

Huh?? What part of the sentence "Belgium and France are banning any concealment of face on the basis of public security" did you not understand? You can suppose whatever you like about their motivations, but try not to go so far as presenting it as a correct statement of fact.

"Land of the free"? That is USA... I think...

Yes. But I wasn't actually using the phrase in reference to them

Fine. I was being sarcastic anyway...

Let me tell you, as someone who was born and raised outside of EU but lived the last 10 years inside it, there is no comparison as to level of civilisation and acceptance and tolerance the countries of the EU display toward all and any minorities, compared to that outside it. It is a feckin beacon of light as far as I am concerned. Which is why I was so surprised and tbh appalled at discovering this thread.

The EU may have great principles but the member countrys may not always follow them.

True. As is unfortunately displayed on that woeful job application sheet from the original post.

Apologies about the quote-unquote thingy mess. Still learning about boards...

k_mac

k_mac wrote: »

I said you have a persecution complex because you assume that you didn't get the jobs because of your religion and have not given any reason why you think that. Was it given as a reason or are you basing it purely on the fact that you were asked your religion?

Well, for God's sake, it doesn't take a rocket scientist, does it? As I have said, I refuse to fill in my religion as I don't have one, and I assume this is the reason, as any time I have enquired as to why I wasn't successful, I got the most vague, bullsh*tty answers. I've applied to similar jobs elsewhere and they were falling over themselves to hire me. So what other reason would there be? Perhaps my qualifications and experience are somehow not suitable for NI employers? :rolleyes: Are you HONESTLY suggesting that any employer would actually tell you you weren't hired because of your religion? How is it up there in cloud cuckoo land?

I know plenty about how NI works. I don't think you understand how bad it can get. You could have an office full of happy workers and then an incident like Holy Cross could happen and all of a sudden the place is divided and tensions are high. Surely management should be able to plan for incidents like this. Like I said, it would be negligent if they didn't. What if two employees happened to be quite fanatical and opposite religions and got in a fight. You can bet management would be questioned on why they allowed to people with those kind of attitudes would be put working together.

Those people should not be working there if they can't handle being in an office with someone from 'the other side'. I can't believe you're suggesting that it's OK for companies to pander to their employees' bigotry. For God's sake. Don't you think tensions were quite high in London after the bombings? Do you think employers refused to hire Muslims so that their employees wouldn't fight? No, of course not. The employers expected their workers to behave like normal, professional human beings and not hatred filled, narrow minded bigots who couldn't put their prejudices aside to do their jobs.

I never said it wasn't discriminatory to hire on the basis of these questions. You are assuming that the questions are for the purpose of hiring. What I said was that there could be other reasons for asking. Don't assume I don't know what I'm talking about. I was previously refused a job on the basis of "positive" racial discrimination.

I said it doesn't matter what the reasons are. It is extremely unethical to force or bully someone into giving information on their religious background. People should have the right to opt out without being told 'well if you don't tell us, we'll decide ourselves'. I feel that opting out is often worse than putting down one religion or another, for the reasons I've already stated, but why should I be bullied into choosing a side?

And before you talk about the EU being so great again. Might I remind you that Belgium and France both want to ban women from practicing their religion by going out in public with their face concealed. Hardly the land of the free. Of course you might not appreciate that as over there you were the "right" religion.

Total rubbish. Covering the entire body from head to toe is not a requirement of Islam. Going around shrouded in a burka is dangerous, first of all because the woman wearing it can see feck all (how on earth can someone safely drive in one?) and secondly because their identity is concealed. It's a matter of public safety. It's long been unacceptable to enter a bank or an airport in a balaclava or a motorcycle helmet, why are burkas any different? Comparing that situation with being discriminated against for putting your religion (or not) on an application form is ridiculous.

Bottle_of_Smoke

[quote=[Deleted User];65667785]I've always thought that was pretty disgraceful. Basically, they're saying 'if you don't tick Catholic or Protestant, we'll assume you're not one of US'. Or 'we'll base it on your last name'. I'm white and my family's Irish/English and I don't belong to either 'community'. Some of my relatives are practicing Catholics, others are practicing Protestants and I don't go to church at all. I imagine there must be a considerable amount of people in this position. It's pretty shocking that they just assume that everyone is either one thing or another thing. It's also interesting that I've never once been offered a job in Northern Ireland despite applying for quite a few over the years. I wonder if they thought I was being awkward by stating I was not a member of any 'community'. What a horrid place.[/QUOTE]

I think its just to monitor discrimination as it used to be very difficult for Catholics to get jobs.

As far as I know the person processing the application form and deciding who gets the job isn't to have access to the equality sheet.

Cunning Stunt

How is this a personal issue

Victor

Cunning Stunt wrote: »

How is this a personal issue

While it might have been once, it isn't at this stage. Thread closed.