Prime Time:The money follows the ministers

bonzos

Did anyone see the article on prime time last night about how the ministers pump money into their local areas while others are left in the dark for years on end.....John O Donoghue landed a grant for €650k for his local GAA club while a team in north Dublin were refuse €1500 for a set of goal post for a underage team.Total disgrace!!!!!!

baalthor

This isn't news. This is how the system works and most people accept it.
RTE have reported on this before and clearly nothing has changed.

O'Donoghue's grant was in the news several years ago; it was for a boathouse. Is this the same one or has he swung another one for the GAA?

Macha

We regularly have posters on here who explicitly state that their vote will be influenced by what their TD will do for the local area. There is a large percentage of the population who vote along these lines.

And then we're surprised when TDs attempt to influence the allocation of state funding for their area? Come on - I think we're a bit more clued in than that, no?

anymore

baalthor wrote: »

This isn't news. This is how the system works and most people accept it.
RTE have reported on this before and clearly nothing has changed.

O'Donoghue's grant was in the news several years ago; it was for a boathouse. Is this the same one or has he swung another one for the GAA?

No not same one that was for a baothose for a rowing club. I am syere this goes on every year.
Healy rae competes with O Donoghue for grants and as he is an Independent he has the same 'pulling power' for grants as a Minister. Hence the roads around Kilgarvan are the best in Kerry.

seamus

There's nothing secret about this carry on.

In the Dept of Education, for example, they have a file on every school. The schools which are in the current Minister for education's constituency have their files "tagged" and put to the top of the list whenever there are any considerations or requests.

They freely admit this and nobody seems to think that there's any unfairness in this.

Irish government is all about the parish pump. Nobody thinks nationally because that doesn't win you votes.

bonzos

John O Donoghue is a posterboy for everything that is wrong with irish politics........

anymore

seamus wrote: »

There's nothing secret about this carry on.

In the Dept of Education, for example, they have a file on every school. The schools which are in the current Minister for education's constituency have their files "tagged" and put to the top of the list whenever there are any considerations or requests.

They freely admit this and nobody seems to think that there's any unfairness in this.

Irish government is all about the parish pump. Nobody thinks nationally because that doesn't win you votes.

A Serving Minister got a surprise when he was canvssing me on behalf of his brother at the last Council elections when I told him the new school opened nearby was irrelevant as it was his support for that odious man Bertie Ahern was the reason i would not give his brother a vote !
From my point of view new schools are justified by the numbers in an area and TDs and Councillors should get no credit for them whatsoever.

baalthor

anymore wrote: »

A Serving Minister got a surprise when he was canvssing me on behalf of his brother at the last Council elections when I told him the new school opened nearby was irrelevant as it was his support for that odious man Bertie Ahern was the reason i would not give his brother a vote !
From my point of view new schools are justified by the numbers in an area and TDs and Councillors should get no credit for them whatsoever.

If the population of a town or area decide they need a new (additional) school then they will just keep lobbying until they get one. It doesn't matter if the dept of education decides the school isn't needed in the area, lobby groups, parents, business owners and local pols will keep at it. There's no downside for those involved; unlike other countries where an additional school might mean increased local taxes here it makes no difference. Likewise there's no upside for a local TD or Minister in opposing the school but plenty (in terms of votes) for supporting it.

Same for Lotto funding: no one is going to raise a stink because their area received unnecessary lottery grants !

Drumpot

bonzos wrote: »

John O Donoghue is a posterboy for everything that is wrong with irish politics........

Ah but sure come on like . . . You no like . .

Hes a decent auld skin like . . Will have a pint with ye down da local . .

Its not his fault this countries in a mess like . . :rolleyes:

ednwireland

wish calamity coughlan would throw some money round here (she cant even get that right), i know plenty of people that are saying they wont vote for her because of the lack of money !
jim mcdaid is liked round here because he the lottery money round like confetti when he was sports minister

go figure everybody wnats accountabilty until it hits them

go round our taosaichs constituency and see the community centres and roads (wonder where that came from :rolleyes: )

Sulmac

bonzos wrote: »

John O Donoghue is a posterboy for everything that is wrong with irish politics........

I hold Jackie Healy-Rae with equal contempt.

It's crap like this that further convinces me we need a national list system and/or stronger local government.

expectationlost

We regularly have regular posters who when others bring up political corruption try to negate the proper shock that this information should bring to all and then try to dissipate the blame to everyone and nobody so the system _they_ implicitly endorse can continue.

moonpurple

Johnny TD says: 'look..its a system failure..'

'lets commission a report..'

(whispers: politicians are frustrated by civil servants)

Seth Brundle

Drumpot wrote: »

Ah but sure come on like . . . You no like . .

Hes a decent auld skin like . . Will have a pint with ye down da local . .

Its not his fault this countries in a mess like . . :rolleyes:

He went to a friends funeral - very decent of him. It meant a lot to us all and we'll remember that when he comes looking canvassing next time.

Amhran Nua

This is a side effect of both the STV system and the lack of power of local authorities. Elections begin the minute you get elected, its a hypercompetitive process that leads to many TDs losing seats to their fellow party members, focused on the individual not on the party. That right there is the heart of the parish pump.

By giving more power to local councillors, and probably mayors, and moving to a partial or full party list system (which the vast majority of proportional representation systems use), people are forced to look instead at the national policies and grasp the effect their vote has on the bigger picture.

JonathanAnon

"Lets commission a report"
Yeah that is a way to ensure that nobody is named, and nobody is held accountable... Dick Roche is without doubt the RUDEST politician. he didnt answer any of the questions that Miriam posed to him. The evidence is there and it's clear... When you're a Minister you feather your own nest with a view to getting re-elected.

mike65

http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1071817

start 14 minutes in.

goat2

i cannot think the name of the minister
who said, he does not help people who do not vote ff, was he for education, it was on this week about him.

Fr0g

goat2 wrote: »

i cannot think the name of the minister
who said, he does not help people who do not vote ff, was he for education, it was on this week about him.

You might be thinking of Ned O'Keefe who said he would not help a school in rathcorman get funds because:

He explained that he had not received votes in the area when he ran for election to the Dail in 2007.

he continued:

All things being equal, I asked her why I should look after the people of Rathcormac if they didn’t look after me? I told her there was no funding available.”

Illustrates the nub of the thread quite clearly.

http://www.publicinquiry.eu/2009/07/02/ned-okeeffe-let-them-eat-cake/

dan_d

I've said it before - we are parochial.
If you are a minister in gov, that should be your job. Your local consitiuency should then be taken care of by councillors/mayors etc. It would seperate people and parishes, and we might actually have a gov interested in running an entire country as opposed to just their local areas. The current system is not working.

goat2

Fr0g wrote: »

You might be thinking of Ned O'Keefe who said he would not help a school in rathcorman get funds because:



he continued:



Illustrates the nub of the thread quite clearly.

http://www.publicinquiry.eu/2009/07/02/ned-okeeffe-let-them-eat-cake/

minister o keefe should treat money like slurry
should be spread out equally

maynooth_rules

Thats the same Ned O'Keefe that has been giving out stink about our current Financial Regulator, while singing the praises of the last dreadful regualator that we had. O'Keefe is a parasite and he is an example of the endemic problem that is in FF at the moment

whippet

this sort of crap is endemic in local politics aswell.

I am involved in the running of a local sports club, we have been working on a project for the last number of years and at this stage it looks like we might have to give up on it as we can't keep dragging our heels.

We need representation at council level, however the local councillers are actually holding the project back as they want to get their name as the sole public figure on the project .. so when it happens they can be there at the ribbon cutting.

They are spending more time arguing about who should endorse it rather than actually doing the feckin' work !!

Its ludicrous .. not only that two of the biggest offenders are both with the same party !!!!

The Corinthian

I really don't see how any of this should be a surprise to people. Tony Gregory managed to pull in even more money for his constituency in a deal that was widely publicized and that ultimately guarantee his continued re-election until he died.

How do you think Michael Lowry keeps on being re-elected? He looks after his own and so his own look after him, regardless of how he is perceived nationally.

Of course - playing Devil's Advocate - one could look at it another way and see this as an incentive towards voters in constituencies to vote for the most capable and ambitious of candidates as these will be most likely to return dividends.

Sand

Requiring that ministers be accountable to the Dail to pass legislation, but unable to hold seats there seems more and more to be a requirement of good governance here.

The Corinthian

Sand wrote: »

Requiring that ministers be accountable to the Dail to pass legislation, but unable to hold seats there seems more and more to be a requirement of good governance here.

As attractive as a technocracy might be, it is highly unacceptable to becoming an oligarchy in light of the lack of democratic accountability that it's members hold. Not sure if there is a solution, TBH.

Sand

So long as budgets and legislation require Dail support, then democratic accountability is there. Ministers wouldnt be able to rule by decree.