flight delays down to people who can't count!

adamski8

So for the third or fourth time i've been delayed taking off on a ryanair flight (i dont fly with anyone else generally so maybe its not just them) by more than an hour as there has been a mistally in the counting of people on board the aircraft and the count of staff at the gate.
I want to know why this is as obviously they never tell you the answer?
I cant understand how this happens so often as I doubt it just me. I did notice it only happening since online check in has been introduced.

Why does it take them an hour to recitify this quicker? Is there not a standard procedure to deal with this. I mean its 45mins before they print off a list of the passengers and check the boarding passes

highlydebased

I wonder is it due to people checking in online and not showing up. I'd say that would distort the numbers?

Zyox

From what I've seen quite a few bigger than normal delays can come from people who check-in online and also drop a bag off then don't show up for the flight.

So somewhere between them dropping the bag and getting through security and the gate, they decided not to get on board, and their bag then needs to be offloaded. There's the messy bit. The chuckers gotta wade through all the bags and find that persons bag.

If that happens 2 or 3 times it can only get worse.

An hour, though, sounds completely over the top for headcounts.

adamski8

well this most recent time they had counted more people on the plane than they counted at the gate!!!!!!!
So it was a count of something like 150 at the gate and 152 on the plane.

Dacian

Personally I think headcounts on the aircraft by crew are inefficient. Why do so when you have already checked passengers through the gate. Surely the gate count (with its scanning of boarding passes) is the more effective method of counting passengers. This seems to be a recent thing,can't remember seeing this 5-8 years ago.

I can see how the head count can be confused, passengers standing up or moving around, kids on the floor or in arms, idiots asking the crew questions as they count.

bigbadbear

adamski8 wrote: »

So for the third or fourth time i've been delayed taking off on a ryanair flight (i dont fly with anyone else generally so maybe its not just them) by more than an hour as there has been a mistally in the counting of people on board the aircraft and the count of staff at the gate.
I want to know why this is as obviously they never tell you the answer?
I cant understand how this happens so often as I doubt it just me. I did notice it only happening since online check in has been introduced.

Why does it take them an hour to rectify this quicker? Is there not a standard procedure to deal with this. I mean its 45mins before they print off a list of the passengers and check the boarding passes

The bold part of the post is very unfortunate. I have so much respect for Ryanair for creating a total fallacy of cheapness about themselves.

Theyre great when they give away the free flights though ie 3€ return ( which is in reality €23 return but still)

about the OP i havent been delayed on a flight in 3 years and i fly regularly

missmoo

it's not that we can't count on board, it's that our count has to match that of the gate staff, in case someone boards the wrong flight, or has gone through the gate, but not to the a/c. 90% of the time it doesn't match it's due to the gate staff not pulling a boarding card, or mis-counting. but it has to be done.

daymobrew

I was on a charter flight where they counted empty seats. This lead to a mismatch because some children, who should be on parents' laps, were in (untaken) seats.

adamski8

bigbadbear wrote: »

The bold part of the post is very unfortunate. I have so much respect for Ryanair for creating a total fallacy of cheapness about themselves.

Theyre great when they give away the free flights though ie 3€ return ( which is in reality €23 return but still)

about the OP i havent been delayed on a flight in 3 years and i fly regularly

Nice, some ryanair bashing for no particular reason.
Don't feel sorry for me. They all do they same job get from point A to B.
well they provide the most routes and much cheaper! (in reality) Just booked €6 (not €26) return flights to gatwick (which is closer to my destination than heathrow)
FYI i've flown with several airlines and have been delayed many times with aerlingus and by alot longer.

This thread however is about being delayed due to head counts!

missmoo wrote: »

it's not that we can't count on board, it's that our count has to match that of the gate staff, in case someone boards the wrong flight, or has gone through the gate, but not to the a/c. 90% of the time it doesn't match it's due to the gate staff not pulling a boarding card, or mis-counting. but it has to be done.

Thanks for that. I suspected as much it was the gate staff as the cabin crew counted about 5 times each 4 different crew.

daymobrew wrote: »

I was on a charter flight where they counted empty seats. This lead to a mismatch because some children, who should be on parents' laps, were in (untaken) seats.

Yeah I was wondering why they didnt count the empty seats as the most recent flight was near full.
Has this become more of a problem because of the print off boarding passes would you know?

So frustrating being given no information as to whats happening though

andy_g

bigbadbear wrote: »

The bold part of the post is very unfortunate. I have so much respect for Ryanair for creating a total fallacy of cheapness about themselves.

Theyre great when they give away the free flights though ie 3€ return ( which is in reality €23 return but still)

about the OP i havent been delayed on a flight in 3 years and i fly regularly

In the whole thread where did Ryanair pricing come into it?

The thread is about headcounts not being correct not exactly Ryanair Aerlingus or any other airline for that matter.

Back on topic lads

Anyway when I worked as ground crew for a company thats no longer in dublin it was mainly down to A missed boarding card most of the time or the pax that checked in online/over the phone with some airlines and never turned up to the flight.

kevinmcc

We have to do this at work too at the gate. Basically passengers who have done DIY check-in with no bags and pax coming from connecting flights are already counted for on the total on board. We have to page them at the gate and manually go through the lists and offload those who didn't show up and offload them to get the count to tally.

If a passenger gets through the gate without the agent scanning their boarding pass, it should still show up as not reconciled, therefore once boarding is finished it should just be a matter of going to that seat and getting the boarding pass. It shouldn't take anymore than a few minutes to sort out. We are not allowed to pushback until the numbers count

ArseBurger

Zyox wrote: »

From what I've seen quite a few bigger than normal delays can come from people who check-in online and also drop a bag off then don't show up for the flight.

So somewhere between them dropping the bag and getting through security and the gate, they decided not to get on board, and their bag then needs to be offloaded. There's the messy bit. The chuckers gotta wade through all the bags and find that persons bag.

That would be an easy trick for a competitor to implement to force delays....

castie

Dacian wrote: »

Personally I think headcounts on the aircraft by crew are inefficient. Why do so when you have already checked passengers through the gate. Surely the gate count (with its scanning of boarding passes) is the more effective method of counting passengers. This seems to be a recent thing,can't remember seeing this 5-8 years ago.

I can see how the head count can be confused, passengers standing up or moving around, kids on the floor or in arms, idiots asking the crew questions as they count.

And what if someone more sinister just wants to get airside?
He goes through the gate and doesnt get onboard (unless its using a bridge and even then theres an exit stairs ) then has free run of airside to do as he pleases without anyone noticing he is missing.

Also the headcount is needed to ensure passengers with bags are indeed on the plane so that no bag travels without its owner intentionally.

castie

ArseBurger wrote: »

That would be an easy trick for a competitor to implement to force delays....

Most airlines have a policy of paging you at the gate while they look for your bag. If your even delaying the flight by 1 minute then its whichever they find first (You or your bag ) that decides if you get onboard. Actually witnessed once some guy not being allowed board even though they hadnt found his bag yet.

dymonaz

daymobrew wrote: »

I was on a charter flight where they counted empty seats. This lead to a mismatch because some children, who should be on parents' laps, were in (untaken) seats.

Had they been counting seats taken, the result would've been exactly the same. Aren't the kids on the manifest anyways? Or were they counting the seats as empty without actually looking if they are taken (cause that would be quite stupid)?

It always makes me wonder why are they counting pax - not empty seats, when the load is 90-95%...

castie

Yes i.e the count would be 180 +2 meaning 2 babies.

saeglopur

dymonaz wrote: »

Had they been counting seats taken, the result would've been exactly the same. Aren't the kids on the manifest anyways? Or were they counting the seats as empty without actually looking if they are taken (cause that would be quite stupid)?

It always makes me wonder why are they counting pax - not empty seats, when the load is 90-95%...

Children under 2 are classed as infants and must sit on their parents lap for safety reasons. This makes counting seats useless unfortunately.

Infants are prob the biggest reason for delays with o/b head-counts. They are often either hidden from view by the parents as the headcount is taking place or passed between family meaning that they are counted twice.

I presume the headcount took so long to rectify on the op's flight as they had to manually go through the flight manifest to find the extra pax on board. This would not be helped by the fact that there is free seating on Ryanair flights meaning that each pax would have to be accounted for alphabetically on a list rather than by seat number.

castie

Theres also 3 head counts. Those checked in those gone through gate and those onboard. All 3 must match.

FlutterinBantam

If 180 were checked in and 178 went through the gate and 178 were on board.

If the two punters who were missing had no baggage, surely you would close up and go?

So the 3 counts don't have to agree?

saeglopur

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

If 180 were checked in and 178 went through the gate and 178 were on board.

If the two punters who were missing had no baggage, surely you would close up and go?

So the 3 counts don't have to agree?

Well, first you would have to confirm that the 2 people missing at the gate are the 2 people missing on board. If they aren't on board they would be offloaded at the gate and then the count would be the same as there would be 178 onboard, 178 through the gate and 178 checked in.

Butch Cassidy

I've never had this problem with Aer Lingus except for once. Like the op the situation was that someone was checked in and then didn't get on the flight but their bag was in the hold so it had to be found and remvoed. Again though, it was only the one time and I'm flown nearly 50 times in the last few years with Aer Lingus.

FlutterinBantam

saeglopur wrote: »

Well, first you would have to confirm that the 2 people missing at the gate are the 2 people missing on board. If they aren't on board they would be offloaded at the gate and then the count would be the same as there would be 178 onboard, 178 through the gate and 178 checked in.

Not splitting hairs but that's not what the man said.

Thank you.

castie

If someone doesnt turn up at the gate in time they get unloaded much like there bag which brings the number checked in down. so if 178 turn up at the gate the missing 2 are unloaded and checked in is now 178.

Usually the gate staff do not go through the boarding cards and write down all names that have gone through the gate.
Hence the number checked in must match whos onboard so that names of all passengers are recorded.

FlutterinBantam

castie wrote: »

If someone doesnt turn up at the gate in time they get unloaded much like there bag which brings the number checked in down. so if 178 turn up at the gate the missing 2 are unloaded and checked in is now 178.

Usually the gate staff do not go through the boarding cards and write down all names that have gone through the gate.
Hence the number checked in must match whos onboard so that names of all passengers are recorded.

With respect you didn't say that the first time.

Doesn't that mean the flight has to to opened up again and the missing two taken off.

Anyway I know what you are saying and not making an issue, just clarification

adamski8

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

I've never had this problem with Aer Lingus except for once. Like the op the situation was that someone was checked in and then didn't get on the flight but their bag was in the hold so it had to be found and remvoed. Again though, it was only the one time and I'm flown nearly 50 times in the last few years with Aer Lingus.

That was not my situation btw. My problem was that the crew said there was too many people on the flight and were checking was anyone on the wrong flight etc. When the finally got around to checking the manifest nobody got off so I take it they had miscounted at the gate.

I was wondering is the problem now more prevalent in recent years and especially with ryanair because of the online check in and printed tickets.
The gate staff do seem to hurry people through and tear the pages pretty rashly

saeglopur

adamski8 wrote: »

I was wondering is the problem now more prevalent in recent years and especially with ryanair because of the online check in and printed tickets.
The gate staff do seem to hurry people through and tear the pages pretty rashly

Web checkin is not really an issue at the gate as it just means that pax have a piece of paper rather than a physical boarding card. Tighter turnarounds may be a better explanation for an increase in errors as like you say they do tend to rush people through the gate and sometimes barcodes dont get scanned correctly.