Vertical Farms

JupiterKid

I was reading about the way cities and urban areas are likely to develop in the next century and one interesting idea that caught my attention was the way that cities will have to go greener - literally.

A number of scientists are proposing that for cities in countries where land is scarce, it would make sense of develop "vertical farms" where each level of the building would be a field of crops or even pasture for animals. The vegetation in the farms would help in countering greenhouse gas emissions as trees and plants in the vertical farm would absorb CO2 emmissions.

Already, in Germany, federal urban planning law makes it mandatory for all new flat roofed buildings in urban areas to have part of the roof devoted for a roof garden or for some other vegetation and greenery. Indeed, some roof gardens have now been adapted into herb gardens and vegetable allotments. So the idea of a vertical farm is not as far-fetched as it may sound.

With the vertical farm, the country will truly be brought into the city. Rus in Urbe in the truest sense of the term.:D

Proponents of vertical farms say that it will help to feed millions of people without cutting down any more rainforests or natural habitats for more farmland. But what do you make of the idea? Practical or wishful thinking?

DagneyTaggart

We're along way from vertical farms but I can see a world where this is used to some extent. The doubling up on space is a practical idea. Animals on the ground floor and veg on the roof would mean lower heating costs for the animals and a use for the manure, too.

This is something I am open-minded about Jupiter.

henryporter

Might be something we could consider for adaption of the abandoned housing developments strewn across the country (most of which was developed on agricultural land - oh the irony!). Seriously though it is the future for big cities. Imagine being able to go to a supermarket at the ground floor of one of these vertical farms and get fresh produce without the transport and carbon emissions that we currently experience.

John_F

oh cripes mighty job except
-what happens the inside of the building - plants need light and the north side of the building will be idle also
-where does the water come from - plants need water ... ok prehaps from roof
-plants take in co2 ok but not methane which is the ''greenhouse'' gas that animals produce

just sounds a bit far fetched i think

red menace

I think theres lots of merit in an idea like this,
But economically a building in the middle of a city is going to earn much more as flats or commercial units,
Its got potential from roof garden perspective I think

DagneyTaggart

It might be a runner even in rural areas. Animals on ground floor and vegtable on the roof. Hard to see it going up any other floors though.

JupiterKid

Cheers lads. So there seemsw to be a future for the idea of vertical farms? Does anyone else have any views on the concept?

Poly

Great idea, just fruit and veg though, not sure about the health and hygiene issues with livestock in that confined environment.
Instead of manure, take all the compostable organic waste from the locality.
It could be done easliy with current technologies I would imagine.
A fresh market on the ground floor and a roof top restaurant serving all it’s own produce

kfk

I cant see how this idea could be economically viable! Dont think any of us here will ever see one of these vertical farms!

Sam Kade

Environmentalism gone mad. The costs would far outweigh any benefits.
http://www.ecogeek.org/agriculture/2984-lets-make-this-clear-vertical-farms-dont-make-sens

vcsggl

This is the sort of thing that Environmental Science students in second rate universities dream up i.e it's completely daft and impractical. The only place where something like this might be built is one of the Gulf States - they are all desperate to out-do each other in terms of being environmentaly innovative and reducing our dependence on oil. They have the money to engage in this sort of fantasy "science" e.g the "outdoor" ski mountain in Dubai with "real" snow and temperatures below freezing - all part of a giant shopping mall in a desert with an ambient temperature of about 30+ degrees C! These guys have money to burn and would quite happily produce salads and other crops in a vertical farm at 10 x the cost of growing them in a field in a temperate climate.

Given that Ireland - and the UK - and most of Europe has thousands of acres of land that is not in productive use why would anyone think it a good idea to spend vast amounts of money and use enormous amounts of energy to grow crops in vertical farms in cities??

The only vertical farming that makes sense for me is to plough some of the very steep hiillsides on the drumlins of Co. Monaghan!!

George

may2001

Cost of constructing multiple storey = say 500 Euro /m2 = 5m Euro / hectare = 2m Euro / acre which is 100 times more expensive than agricultural land at 20,000 Euro per acre meaning that food produced from such a system may be 100 to 50 times more expensive than current food prices? How many city dwellers would be prepared to pay that much for food?

Green roofs are an excellent idea however, but are probably more likely to be used for greenery than food production as the growing medium will need a permanent root system to prevent it being washed away. However some shrubs might be possible I suppose, but then the absorption of air pollution may become another issue.

The use of green roofs and walls will result from their use to control the internal climate of buldings, rather than their economical value as farms. Green roofs and walls are a very efficient means of reducing cooling and heating loads within buildings.

agcons

Interesting article in the Economist this week about vertical farms. Seems like a lot of money is being put into research
www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2010/12/vertical_farming

Birdnuts

agcons wrote: »

Interesting article in the Economist this week about vertical farms. Seems like a lot of money is being put into research
www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2010/12/vertical_farming

It would make sense in countries with high population densities and shrinking farmland availability such as Syria, Kenya, India, China and Pakistan etc.

red menace

agcons wrote: »

Interesting article in the Economist this week about vertical farms. Seems like a lot of money is being put into research
www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2010/12/vertical_farming

Putting these near cities is never going to work.
The ROI is never going to be there if you are paying city prices for land.

vcsggl

Birdnuts wrote: »

It would make sense in countries with high population densities and shrinking farmland availability such as Syria, Kenya, India, China and Pakistan etc.

These countries don't have high population densities at all! They have densely populated cities but also have thousands of acres of empty land. A lot of the land isn't very hospitable but spending money on irrigation systems and intensive cropping would make far more economic sense than building vertical farms! If you travel by rail through India, Pakistan or China you can see just how little of the land is actually used for anything at the moment.

George

Birdnuts

vcsggl wrote: »

These countries don't have high population densities at all! They have densely populated cities but also have thousands of acres of empty land. A lot of the land isn't very hospitable but spending money on irrigation systems and intensive cropping would make far more economic sense than building vertical farms! If you travel by rail through India, Pakistan or China you can see just how little of the land is actually used for anything at the moment.

George

- India has 1.2 billion people that is growing by nearly 20 million a year, there is big problems with water shortages and pollution. Rural parts of Northern India have a populations density equivalent to putting 70 million people in Leinster!!, . Large areas of desert and mountain are not suiteable for agriculture - deforestation is also a huge problem leading to floods and landslides

China - most of China is actually desert and mountains which is totally unsuiteable for settlement which puts huge pressure on the remaining resources that have to support nearly 1.3 billion people. Glaciers supplying many of their major rivers are shrinking rapidly too which could have dire consequences in the near future. The Gobi desert continues to swallow farmland in the North while Urban sprawl continues to eat up valuable farmland in the East

Pakistan: Has much of the same problems as India but has even more desert and moutainous land to contend with


PS:Much of North Africa appears to be empty but since most of its desert its FA use for anything:( - amazing how many people seem to not get simple facts like the above:rolleyes:

JupiterKid

Vertical farming on the smaller scale by Ikea. No metal parts required. Apparently it can feed a small village. Pretty cool!





Link:
http://uk.businessinsider.com/ikeas-growroom-photos-2017-2?r=US&IR=T/#measuring-about-nine-feet-tall-the-growroom-lets-you-grow-plants-indoors-1


The Ikea grow room sphere

_Brian

Be a hungry village if their food is coming from that !!

Simple to build, plywood, rubber hammer, nails (presumably you use a rock to put in the nails), and the last simple thing you need is a milling machine - seriously, like there is one in the shed behind every house !!

pedigree 6

You just need a glasshouse to put in too.:D

The world has just gone mental.

This is never going to be in a poor African or where ever village.
What's the benefit of this over raised beds out in the open?

All this was designed for to be put in the lobby of some corporation or hotel for people to look at the architecture of the piece and a bit of greenery that looks nice too whilst giving the stupid rich people the perception that this can save the world whilst giving advertising to a rich multinational home furnishing conglomerate at the same time.

I wouldn't like eating produce grown in soil absorbing the chemicals from sticking the plywood together either.

I wonder how long before the whole thing becomes a pile of mush?

They didn't even use marine ply if they wanted it to last a bit longer.:mad:


Soon people in this world won't be able to tie their own shoelaces.
Honestly. We're doomed.










Doomed I tell ya.

kevthegaff

Farm here is near vertical!

99nsr125

Not exactly a farm but a vertical forest from Italy

pedigree 6

99nsr125.

You're missing a forward slash on your second img and youtube.

Like this [/IMG] and [/youtube].

Sam Kade

The hydroponic system they were glorifying back in 2013 during the fodder shortage really took off :rolleyes: I visited their stand at the ploughing in 2014 and haven't heard of them since even though a man that was at the stand when I was there said that system has been around since the 70's. I wouldn't like to be feeding 150 cows with it, some lugging trays around. http://www.4seasonsfoddersystem.com/Irish_Farmers_Use_Hydroponic_Fodder.php

Here's an interesting article about how hydroponics are a non runner.
http://ucanr.edu/blogs/blogcore/postdetail.cfm?postnum=11721