mixing help

NoQuarter

Just a quick question folks,

While jamming with the band i run my Pod XTL straight into the mixer and the vocals run straight through the mixer too. But everytime the vocals are belting out my guitar seems to get lost in the mix...

Is there any settings i can use to make the vocals and my guitar sound distinguishable??

Cheers.

PMI

Its all down to what your using really....

Im thinking the PA isnt that powerful and the speakers prob arnt that great so clarity will be a prob and possibly the amp is going into compression?!?

Remember that the guitar and vox are in the same area of the frequency range so will be fighting naturally with guitars you usually need a boost at around 2k-3k which wont sound the nicest when on its own but you will find it help cut through the mix and adding a touch around 7k to the vocals with help them carry too (presence)

another thing is space, lose some low end and poss dip the low mids a touch on the vocals to create more space for other things, as too much information frequency wise with just sound a mess

more info would be good ie: are we talking studio or live?!? I can answer from both areas but the above is from more of a live perspective

GOod luck

NoQuarter

Thanks PMI,

Its just in the rehearsal rooms. The PA's are probably powerful enough as we are in some good rooms.

There is no amp at all, the Pod XTL is an amp modelling effects unit which goes straight into the mixers line in.

All i really have to play with is the mixers settings, and its never really the same mixer as we use different rooms. So am i doing anything obviously wrong or is it something ill have to live with?

Gaspode

In my experience, going direct into the PA is a big compromise as you just cant get a clear cut guitar sound.
I tried this at a gig on saturday, and while it was great not to have to bring an amp, the sound was only 'OK', and not what I really wanted, esp. for solos.
I'd put up with that for rehearsals, but I wont do it again for a gig.

PMI

Gaspode wrote: »

In my experience, going direct into the PA is a big compromise as you just cant get a clear cut guitar sound.
I tried this at a gig on saturday, and while it was great not to have to bring an amp, the sound was only 'OK', and not what I really wanted, esp. for solos.
I'd put up with that for rehearsals, but I wont do it again for a gig.

I do it every night.... but im running a valve head direct into a palmer speaker sim so you dont lose any of the amp tone and your solo sounds etc.. all remain intact.

All the big boys use um too when touring hense why your seeing less and less mics at big concerts

PMI

king-stew wrote: »

Thanks PMI,

Its just in the rehearsal rooms. The PA's are probably powerful enough as we are in some good rooms.

There is no amp at all, the Pod XTL is an amp modelling effects unit which goes straight into the mixers line in.

All i really have to play with is the mixers settings, and its never really the same mixer as we use different rooms. So am i doing anything obviously wrong or is it something ill have to live with?

Im talking about the amp within the mixer, thats prob hitting compression as they are often small powered ie: around 300 watts which is nothing in real terms as cheaper desks etc... will go into compression alot sooner than spec'ed

Adyx

If there's a low cut/hi pass filter on the channels on the mixing desk, try engaging it for the vocals and the guitar.

PMI

This will help only slightly as its usually at 100hz and there is not alot of information happening around that area on vocals and guitars they start to drop off in the low mid area of 200hz ish...

are there swept mids on the desk ? or are they fixed eq's

NoQuarter

Im not too sure PMI, it will be the weekend before im back there, the desk is quite big so there may be! If there is what should i do with them?

Adyx

PMI wrote: »

This will help only slightly as its usually at 100hz and there is not alot of information happening around that area on vocals and guitars they start to drop off in the low mid area of 200hz ish...

are there swept mids on the desk ? or are they fixed eq's

Certainly, but all the more reason to cut them imo, especially if the vocal mic is picking up reflections from a bass or bass drum. There's little harm in trying either since it'll have little effect on the desired vocal frequencies.

As PMI said, a parametric eq could be helpful. What kind of desk is it?

PMI

Adyx wrote: »

Certainly, but all the more reason to cut them imo, especially if the vocal mic is picking up reflections from a bass or bass drum. There's little harm in trying either since it'll have little effect on the desired vocal frequencies.

As PMI said, a parametric eq could be helpful. What kind of desk is it?

100% do it.... but parametric will be a bit better as you can pick a certain freq and kill it

so to OP you will find a +-db volume in the eq and a frequency knob and the idea is you either boost or cut your chosen frequency on any given channel

hope this helps

NoQuarter

Ok thanks for the info gents, watch this space, i will bump when im back from our next rehearsal!

poker princess

I LEARNT ALOT FROM YOUR POST..THANKS:o

Savman

IMHO, "boosting" anything on an EQ, especially in a live scenario, is a bad habit. In the end you will inevitably run into further problems.

Remember EQ is a correctional tool, not a plaything effect. If the guitar's too 'boomy' - cut some lows, if the Vocals are too screechy - cut some highs, and so forth.

Fix whatever is broken first and foremost. It's true that guitar and vocals would be fighting for the same frequency range, so you will have to decide which gets preference and which has to "sit back" in the mix - although truth be told, the answer here is fairly obvious. In a live scenario, everything must be sacrificed to give the Vocals room to breath. I don't understand how this is a big problem for just a Guitar & Vocal set up but I suppose the same basic principals apply.

Lastly, fix all problems at souorce. If there's a problem with your guitar, start with your Amp/Pod settings, not the PA mixing desk.

My 2c, FWIW!

artvandulet

Savman wrote: »

IMHO, "boosting" anything on an EQ, especially in a live scenario, is a bad habit. In the end you will inevitably run into further problems.

Remember EQ is a correctional tool, not a plaything effect. If the guitar's too 'boomy' - cut some lows, if the Vocals are too screechy - cut some highs, and so forth.

Fix whatever is broken first and foremost. It's true that guitar and vocals would be fighting for the same frequency range, so you will have to decide which gets preference and which has to "sit back" in the mix - although truth be told, the answer here is fairly obvious. In a live scenario, everything must be sacrificed to give the Vocals room to breath. I don't understand how this is a big problem for just a Guitar & Vocal set up but I suppose the same basic principals apply.

Lastly, fix all problems at souorce. If there's a problem with your guitar, start with your Amp/Pod settings, not the PA mixing desk.

My 2c, FWIW!

Exactly. As the old saying goes, amateurs boost, pros cut!:D