Kit Test

TelePaul

*Disclaimer - SD 2.0 is on the way. I know electronic drums with good samples will get me better results than this acoustic kit. However, I would like to know how to make this acoustic kit sound better, largely as a means of improving my tracking prowess*

Got some new cymbals, snare, skins and mics. Here's a quick test, completely dry and with all channels at unity gain.

www.soundclick.com/glasshouserecordings (Kit Test)

It starts with some individual hits on each part of the kit, then a few 'beats' (:o) and finally some brushes beats. I used the Recorderman method with two O/Hs and the kick and snare mic'd.

I know the sound is saggy overall, although it's a big improvement on any previous attempts before I replaced the skins and hardware. The cymbals seem to be cutting through nicely, although the snare sounds boxy, and the kick and possibly toms (esp. floor toms) make the whole thing sound quite saggy and dark. If you guys could advise as to the tuning and phase to begin with, that'd be awesome - once they're okay, I'd be happier working with placement (and some treatment of the room).

Also, one thing I'm still not sure of is to the inclusion or removing of a resonant head on the kick - part of me things the resonant head would contain all that air being pushed around, but part of me thinks that this is keeping my kick drum mic a good 18' from the beater skin....

Obi-Jim

It's not bad at all.

With those 4 mics, it's all down to tuning and playing with the overheads. Kick could do with a bit more slap, it's a bit ooomphy (that's the technical term) too.

The toms are ringing over it quite a bit though. I'd probably deaden them a bit anyway, but that's down to taste and style of song etc etc

Snare has a bit of ring in it, sounds good for some parts, not so much on others. That's ok. Again, snare tuning is taste and style of song. Although, i'd most likely try dampen it for the brushes.

But like, to be honest, it's hard to say "yea, they're good" or "no they're bad". Things change when you want to add the instruments and vocals to a song, depending on what they are. There's so many variables. Filters might clean it up a bit, compression on kik, snr or OH's might help it a bit, it also might destroy it. Some people will take the toms off to record the kik, snr and hats part, then do the rolls later.

The best thing to do is record a song and decide what you don't like about it. What are your tuning goals? Tuned like bonham, foo fighters, damian rice?

i57dwun4yb1pt8

what mics are you using ?

sounds like akg c1000 or maybe some rode nt5 - or maybe even a cheap chinese.

overall tone is like a jazz kit

1/ i think your toms are tuned a bit to high .
bring them down about a full turn on each lug. top and bottom

2/ kick - take the front head off or cut a hole and put the mic inside.
you are also going to have to hit it WAAAAY harder.

3/ snare not too bad , but id reverse the phase on the over heads to match it for more body .

try using a modified recorderman - put the first mic infront of the kit / in fornt of the small tom / snare pointing down at the snare center , in line of sight with the small tom and aiming down one of the cymbals tops
about 5 to 6 feet off the floor , keep the cymbals low to the kit .

put the other over floor tom pointing at the snare center and seeing the cymbal and the edge of the floor tom next to the snare
maybe about 5 feet off the floor

put the kick mic just insisde the hole poiting at the beater for now

snare an inch above the rim at 30 - 40 degress , down at a spot 3 inhces from center

try that for now

measure the distance to each mic so they are exactly same distance from snare center - reverse the phase of the over heads or the snare mic.

put something foamy above the kit on the ceiling , if its lower than 10 feet .
even a blanket , say about 6 by 4 in area.

when playing , hit the toms , and kick the hardest
snare next
and cymbals hats the least hardest - just enough to make them sing out

TelePaul

DaDumTish wrote: »

what mics are you using ?

sounds like akg c1000 or maybe some rode nt5 - or maybe even a cheap chinese.

overall tone is like a jazz kit

1/ i think your toms are tuned a bit to high .
bring them down about a full turn on each lug. top and bottom

2/ kick - take the front head off or cut a hole and put the mic inside.
you are also going to have to hit it WAAAAY harder.

3/ snare not too bad , but id reverse the phase on the over heads to match it for more body .

try using a modified recorderman - put the first mic infront of the kit / in fornt of the small tom / snare pointing down at the snare center , in line of sight with the small tom and aiming down one of the cymbals tops
about 5 to 6 feet off the floor , keep the cymbals low to the kit .

put the other over floor tom pointing at the snare center and seeing the cymbal and the edge of the floor tom next to the snare
maybe about 5 feet off the floor

put the kick mic just insisde the hole poiting at the beater for now

snare an inch above the rim at 30 - 40 degress , down at a spot 3 inhces from center

try that for now

measure the distance to each mic so they are exactly same distance from snare center - reverse the phase of the over heads or the snare mic.

put something foamy above the kit on the ceiling , if its lower than 10 feet .
even a blanket , say about 6 by 4 in area.

when playing , hit the toms , and kick the hardest
snare next
and cymbals hats the least hardest - just enough to make them sing out

Hey man,

Thanks alot for the comprehensive response. As for mics, I've a sennheiser e 602 II on the kick and an e 604 on the snare with two Naiant MSH2s as overheads. Also, you havn't totally rubbished this as sounding like hammered sh!t - I'm pretty stoked about that! Maybe there's hope for me yet!

When I think of a jazz kit, I tend to think of something a little loose-sounding...not in a bad way, but where the kit doesn't catch you in the chest and the snare has more overtones than the crisp, gunshot sound of a rock/pop kit. I suppose I'm probably aiming for the latter. As for your points:

1) Cool, is that what's causing the ringing overtones? If the kit is sounding flabby, will tuning the toms down cause more muddiness or should I be hitting them hard to bring out the punch?

2) Again, shouldn't be a problem. Couple of inches from the resonant head okay? Will putting it inside the kick cut down on bleed from the snare? I'm also playing heel up, that'll help to get some power behind it right?

3) Tuned it up ever so slightly. Liking the snap off it a bit more now. If I have the O/Hs perfectly equidistant from the snare centre, is a phase adjust required?

Will try some baffling tomorrow - have three 6' x 4' gobos with compressed styrofoam exposed - can hang blankets as necessary. The ceiling treatment will be tough as it's a slanted glass roof.

pistonsvox

I always end up squashing the life outta my overheads:rolleyes: but end up leaving it in cos by the end I actually like the sound of it for some songs.

If I got the drum sound from the cults she sells sanctuary id be happy then :cool:

TelePaul

pistonsvox wrote: »

I always end up squashing the life outta my overheads:rolleyes: but end up leaving it in cos by the end I actually like the sound of it for some songs.

If I got the drum sound from the cults she sells sanctuary id be happy then :cool:

I think we're talking pound coin on the skin for that TBH! What a tune.

pistonsvox

its all in the snare!