Large Euro Notes

bog master

Not sure if this is the right forum, mods, feel free to move it.

In having a pint today, and a lad went to make a bet with a €200.00 note.
Bookie refused to accept saying to many forgeries about. Can shops legally refuse to accept certain notes?

itsonlywords

bog master wrote: »

Not sure if this is the right forum, mods, feel free to move it.

In having a pint today, and a lad went to make a bet with a €200.00 note.
Bookie refused to accept saying to many forgeries about. Can shops legally refuse to accept certain notes?

Yes they can. We have a sign that says we will not accept any note over €100 value. Never had problems with that. Try cashing a €500 in a bank and see what happens with some.

bog master

I appreciate you have a sign saying that, but is it legal? Why have large notes in circulation and not being able to use them? In my opinion, contrary to popular belief, cash ie notes is still used greatly, not everyone wants to use laser etc. And in a recent experience, a bank would not even cash a bank draft for me.

BoB_BoT

pretty sure they don't have to legally as it's not payment for a debt (i.e. bill). It's also a financial issue, if you're left with a dud 100, 200, 500, you're out that amount, the bank won't reimburse you if it's a dud. Where I work accepts 100's, but they're heavily scrutinised. Once had a 200 euro note (I had never seen a 200 euro note before) and had to turn it down as I wasn't sure where the security/water marks were, we point blank refuse to take 500's.

Lmao_Man

I thought "legal tender" has to be accepted as payment (ie : cash)

but I have seen signs in shops saying they won't accept any larger than €50 notes.

You never really see anything higher than €50 do you ? Weird.

Cool Mo D

Lmao_Man wrote: »

I thought "legal tender" has to be accepted as payment (ie : cash)

but I have seen signs in shops saying they won't accept any larger than €50 notes.

You never really see anything higher than €50 do you ? Weird.

No one has to take your money if they don't want to, and it can be for almost any reason. If you have a business that only accepts payment in 5c coins, that's perfectly legal, if a bit stupid.

bog master

Lmao_Man wrote: »

I thought "legal tender" has to be accepted as payment (ie : cash)

but I have seen signs in shops saying they won't accept any larger than €50 notes.

You never really see anything higher than €50 do you ? Weird.

That would be my opinion, but thinking, say your man wants to place a bet, has only a large note, horse/dog/team wins, would he have a case for legal action?

BoB_BoT

Cool Mo D wrote: »

No one has to take your money if they don't want to, and it can be for almost any reason. If you have a business that only accepts payment in 5c coins, that's perfectly legal, if a bit stupid.

Well actually, the maximum you are required to take legally is 50 x coins. So the most you could pay for 5 cent coins would be 2.50 euro.

*edit* slight edit, misread. But same applies the other way round, if you were to request me to pay in 5c coins for a 10euro sale, I could refuse.

If it was a debt however, you would have to take whatever "legal tender" I choose to give.

Lmao_Man

bog master wrote: »

That would be my opinion, but thinking, say your man wants to place a bet, has only a large note, horse/dog/team wins, would he have a case for legal action?

The bookies wouldn't pay out,unless they accepted the cash for payment before.

I can see why shops don't accept large notes though,but it must be annoying if you have a real €100/€200 note,or even more annoying if you receive a fake one.

bog master

Lmao_Man wrote: »

The bookies wouldn't pay out,unless they accepted the cash for payment before.

I can understand that, but you are trying to complete a transaction or in a sense a contract, and the seller has the right to refuse what I consider "legal tender"? More to the point, what is "legal tender then"

BoB_BoT

bog master wrote: »

Lmao_Man wrote: »

The bookies wouldn't pay out,unless they accepted the cash for payment before.

I can understand that, but you are trying to complete a transaction or in a sense a contract, and the seller has the right to refuse what I consider "legal tender"? More to the point, what is "legal tender then"

Legal Tender is payment that cannot be refused in settlement of a debt.

From here

GerardKeating

bog master wrote: »

Not sure if this is the right forum, mods, feel free to move it.

In having a pint today, and a lad went to make a bet with a €200.00 note.
Bookie refused to accept saying to many forgeries about. Can shops legally refuse to accept certain notes?

They cannot refuse legal tender if one wants to settle a debt with them, if one already owed them the money.

But they can refuse (for no stated reason) to allow one to create the debt in the first place.

Lmao_Man

But the thing is that cash is legal tender....a €1 coin is cash just the same as €200 is cash,so how can it be refused ? (I know it is refused but legally how can it be ?)

something like a cheqe doesn't have to be accepted which is fair enough since it's not legal tender.

I wonder do these shops have sneaky small print when they say they won't accept over €50 notes,like "this does not affect your strutory rights"?

BoB_BoT

Lmao_Man, legal tender applies to DEBTS ONLY.
There is provision in the Economic and Monetary Union Act, 1998, for persons (other than the central bank) to accept up to 50 coins as payment.
However there seems to be no mention of notes and what has to be accepted.

As pointed out already, if you walk into a shop, to buy a bar of chocolate, present a 500 euro note, they refuse the payment and can cancel the transaction, no debt occurs. It works the other way round too, if you're presented with the cost at the till, you can end the transaction and not purchase the chocolate bar.

Our man in Havana

Now if you went into a restaurant and had a meal with wine and then presented said €200 note they would have to accept it as it is payment for a debt.

BoB_BoT

Interesting though,
from the link in my previous post:
However, restaurants that do not collect money until after a meal is served would have to accept any legal tender, though they would not be obliged to provide change – the restaurant is not in debt, it has been given a gift

Victor

bog master wrote: »

I appreciate you have a sign saying that, but is it legal?

Yes. Any business can set out the rules it wants to operate under. Ryanair only take certain debit/credit cards. Would you insist a vending machines takes €500 notes or a newspaper seller a the traffic lights?

Also, when you go up to a cashier, you are making the offer*, the cashier is perfectly entitled to decline your business as no contract has been entered into yet.

Why have large notes in circulation

€100, €200 and €500 notes generally aren't in cirulation here.

and not being able to use them? In my opinion, contrary to popular belief, cash ie notes is still used greatly, not everyone wants to use laser etc.

There are lots of forgeries around.

And in a recent experience, a bank would not even cash a bank draft for me.

There are lots of forgeries around and indeed money laundering. Your own bank might for a small amount. Others won't.

bog master wrote: »

That would be my opinion, but thinking, say your man wants to place a bet, has only a large note, horse/dog/team wins, would he have a case for legal action?

But there has been no contract formed. Also, gambling debts are not enforceable in court. Then there is a matter of evidence.

Lmao_Man wrote: »

The bookies wouldn't pay out,unless they accepted the cash for payment before.

I can see why shops don't accept large notes though,but it must be annoying if you have a real €100/€200 note,or even more annoying if you receive a fake one.

I'm not sure of "annoying" is the best word.

Lmao_Man wrote: »

But the thing is that cash is legal tender....a €1 coin is cash just the same as €200 is cash,so how can it be refused ? (I know it is refused but legally how can it be ?)

In effect they are refusing your offer of a contract, no the money.

BoB_BoT wrote: »

As pointed out already, if you walk into a shop, to buy a bar of chocolate, present a 500 euro note, they refuse the payment and can cancel the transaction, no debt occurs. It works the other way round too, if you're presented with the cost at the till, you can end the transaction and not purchase the chocolate bar.

Alternatively, if you are insistent on having the choolate and they grudgingly accept the note, they do not have to give change (certainly not immediately).


* Certain exceptions occur.

bog master

Victor

Apologies but mouse has gone to sleep so doing this manually. You quote
100-200-500 Euro notes arent generally in circulation. Disagree, from Euro Ireland website, 500 euro notes account for 34% of total circulation of notes in Ireland.

Again I say, why have notes that no one will accept? Who gives them out?

50 Euro note most widely countefeited, so lets ban them? 500 Euro notes account for 1% of all recognised forgeries.

And why, when I go to the bank, that issued the Bank Draft, not cash it for me one day after issuing it? And I had ID, was actually given the counterfoil,drove your man to the bank to get the draft, stood beside him when he got it. and use the same bank albeit a different branch 9 miles away.

If they cannot confirm, a draft they issued 24 hours previously is a forgery or genuine, what hope have we for the banking industry and security.
Oh wait, have heard something about this NAMA

Jev/N

Bog Master, you seem to be confusing 'in circulation' with 'inter bank transfer' - most of the larger notes, specifically 200 & 500, are only meant for bank transactions and not for everyday consumer ones

As for the rest of your rants in your latest post, I don't think they belong in this thread

Victor

bog master wrote: »

You quote 100-200-500 Euro notes arent generally in circulation. Disagree, from Euro Ireland website, 500 euro notes account for 34% of total circulation of notes in Ireland.

What is this website?

http://www.google.ie/#hl=en&source=hp&q=Euro+Ireland+website&btnG=Google+Search&meta=&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=Euro+Ireland+website&gs_rfai=&fp=6e382940f8139188

bog master

Victor wrote: »

What is this website?

http://www.google.ie/#hl=en&source=hp&q=Euro+Ireland+website&btnG=Google+Search&meta=&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=Euro+Ireland+website&gs_rfai=&fp=6e382940f8139188

Apologies for my error. "In terms of value, the 500-euro note accounts for some 34% of the total value of notes in circulation." Within the EU, I initially read it wrong.

http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/een/005/article_4324_en.htm

Victor

bog master wrote: »

Apologies for my error. "In terms of value, the 500-euro note accounts for some 34% of the total value of notes in circulation."

Thats by value. For every €500 note there is €970 in other notes.