At what point do you just accept your never anyones first choice?

LegacyUser

Hey,

I just kinda need feedback at the moment. I'm a guy aged 21 and to be honest I have had enough of my 'friends'. Lately I have begun to question whether any of the people I class as good friends actually care about me at all.

I've always lived by the mantra that if you want a good friend, you be a good friend. But to be honest this philosophy has failed me big time. I take care of my friends, place to crash? Done. Lend of money? No problem. Listen to your problems and help you as best I can? Of course. I always text back, always make contact, always include all of them. I honestly believe myself to be a good friend. But it seems my friends never return the favour. Often I will go a night without being contacted, they'll just go ahead and not invite me. It's not malicious, or intended. I am just not the main draw for any of them. If they need something, of course they will call me but otherwise they can take or leave me. It really is getting me down lately. My aunt died and no one sympathised. I spent my birthday alone because everyone was busy. On nights out, they will have parties and not text me or when I be proactive and text them no one responds. When I call them out on these things, I am painted as paranoid, I have lost count of the number of 'phantom' texts I was suppossed to have recieved and never did.

The sad reality is, that while I am dependable and such, I am not the funniest guy in the world. I am not needed at events. Nor do people really care what I am going through. I feel like the safe dependable one who if you've nothing else on you give a call or if you are stuck or in trouble you rely on but otherwise I bring nothing to the table in terms of fun and frolics. I am easy-going and out-going but I can admit I don't make everyone laugh and I am not the centre of attention. I just feel sometimes, like now that I am wasting my time with people. I know I will get over it, and continue on but after everything I've done for these people, even a text every now and then letting me in on things would be valued.

I know the advice I will get is 'find new friends' but to be honest, history is repeating itself. People just don't see me as a main draw. I'm always having to include myself no matter what I do. I am sick of it tbh and I feel so alone and isolated. I feel if I was more charismatic, good looking etc. I would be first on everyones list for inclusion but because I am not, I am merely the 'if hes coming cool, if not grand it doens't really matter friend'. And as a result, no one really goes out of their way to include/keep me in the loop.

For the last few months I have had to be the pro-active one who includes himself through countless texts/phonecalls. I have tested before whether if I cut contact would any of them get back to me and tbh after a week of silence no one did. It really upsets me because I have been their shoulder to cry on, helped them out in all sorts of ways etc. but I know if I found myself needing someone, it just wouldn't be responded. It's not that they hate me or anything, its just inspire indifference in people. No one has ever really valued my company or seen me as a 'keeper'.

I guess what I am asking is, should I just accept that I am not everonyes number 1? And just count myself lucky to have people who I know I can hang out with if I contact them or should I expect more from friends?
What is friendship to someone my age?

Thanks for reading.

LegacyUser

If it's any consolation, you're not alone. I feel like I'm constantly the one doing all of the chasing, as in organising nights out etc, and never thought of when anyone else organises. I've also been there a huge amount for one of my friends the past while (she was going through a break-up/finding a new guy/family troubles and I was the only person who knew) and now I'm going through some serious stuff and she's not there.

I went through a time when I evaluated everything - did I smell, was I inappropriate to others, do I change when drinking, well everything really - and came up with nothing. So I came to the conclucion that that was just me being paranoid. Sometimes it's just a certain personality that people feel they can take advantage of - maybe that's our problem.

Don't know what else to say, just that you're not alone, and that sometimes, some people are just plonkers and don't appreciate a good friend when they see one.

lizzie09

You sound the nicest guy around...you better belive that!

Sometimes friends especially when you are young are selfish and
just take what they want from you....I appreciate that you are not
the guy who is laughing and cracking jokes all night..but thats OK too!

who wants someone like that always anyway?..there is a place, a great place
for the lovely, gentle, dependable friend...recognise anyone?

I'm not going to say get new friends but be open to widening your group.
Don't bother trying to be one of the guys ..thats not your style...your absolutely
fine the way you are but I understand you are lonely..

Stand back a bit from the pals...just be a little unavailable from time to time, just a little bit! Have a look around your everyday places, work or college,whatever, and see if there are any people you might hook up with
on a small scale to start with..people more quiet and reserved like yourself but still with the twinkle for fun

You are the kind of friend who lasts the long haul as time goes by you will see this ,but please try not to feel lonely for now

LegacyUser

Hi OP,

You sound sad and understandably so. It sounds like you are maybe giving too much to your friends, being the reliable sorter/ fixer kind of person. When you set yourself up in this role others cannot see beyond that. You look after everyone else's needs so it seems like its hard for your friends to see you as someone with your own needs. Ironic as it may sound sometimes the more you do for friends the less the respect you - you become someone to take for granted, to step up when needed. Maybe in an attempt to be liked or "number 1" you have tried to hard with your friends by being mr. fix it. You are still young at 21 you generally move on to new groups of friends naturally. If you decide you want to stay friends with your current group then you need to start making your needs felt and stop being the fixer. Next time someone asks for a lend of money just say you can't at the moment. I would also suggest that you have a quiet chat with one of the group who you trust/like the most. I would say how you are feeling about not being included etc.
If one the guys has a girlfriend ask her for her opinion - girls are good at seeing that sort of thing. You sound like a lovely guy but you are trying to hard to be someone's number 1. If these friends don't respect you for who you are that is not your fault it's theirs and its their loss too. Good luck

dellas1979

Yup - you need to stand back from these people a little. If it takes more than a week so be it. Sounds like they take you for granted. There is nothing wrong with you, they just take you for granted.

kmpfan

I hear you mate. Although I am not in this situation I can still imagine what you feel. Judging by your attitude I think you do deserve nice friends who care for you. Give it some time...

FerrisBueller

Hey,
I wouldn't beat yourself up about it too much, this is very common believe it or not! It seems like you've been let down a lot lately, and spent all your time looking out on others, yet you have forgotten the most important thing and that is to look out for yourself.
I'm not going to make the whole "take up a new hobby and make new friends" speech BUT what I think you should do is ask yourself, "what do I want?" It could be anything, buying a car, going volunteering, doing a skydive, ANYTHING, just make sure it's something that YOU want. It'll give you a focus away from feeling inferior. Who knows, depending on what it is you might make a few extra friends or see some more opportunities along the way. Start doing things for yourself a bit, it doesn't make you a loner, it makes you independant, and that's a quality a lot of people lack

S23

First off you're pretty young and thats just the way a lot of people are at that age. At that age I found most people were/are self absorbed and only interested in what they can get for themselves and lack empathy.

Another thing, don't confuse friends with acquaintances. Friend is the term thrown about for a lot of people but it doesn't really apply. Have a look through the list of numbers in your phone and I think you'll find that most of the people in it are just social acquaintances. They are people you go out with to the pub/club/cinema/whatever but that does not automatically make them your friend.

I think the same applies for a hell of a lot of people. I know loads of people that I meet on nights out or socialise with but while I do like them and they are nice people they aren't what I'd classify as real friends. They wouldn't go out of their way for me and I wouldn't go out of my way for them

Real friends are few and far between in my opinion. I only have a handful of friends I could completely rely on if I was in a tight spot.

So you're not out of the ordinary. I agree you need to be a bit less accesible to these people. You're giving these acquaintances far too much. You pretty much know they are not real reliable friends so why keep it up? Lending people money and doing everything you can to please them won't change them from acquaintances to real friends. They might even see you as a soft touch that they can use for their needs whenever they like.

I'd also agree about expanding your social horizions if possible. At 21 I wouldn't worry about the situation too much. As people grow up you will find that attitudes change and you will make longer lasting and more meaningful friends

miec

You sound the nicest guy around...you better belive that!

Sometimes friends especially when you are young are selfish and
just take what they want from you....I appreciate that you are not
the guy who is laughing and cracking jokes all night..but thats OK too!

who wants someone like that always anyway?..there is a place, a great place
for the lovely, gentle, dependable friend...recognise anyone?

I'm not going to say get new friends but be open to widening your group.
Don't bother trying to be one of the guys ..thats not your style...your absolutely
fine the way you are but I understand you are lonely..

Stand back a bit from the pals...just be a little unavailable from time to time, just a little bit! Have a look around your everyday places, work or college,whatever, and see if there are any people you might hook up with
on a small scale to start with..people more quiet and reserved like yourself but still with the twinkle for fun

You are the kind of friend who lasts the long haul as time goes by you will see this ,but please try not to feel lonely for now

+ 1. This is good advice Op. I would also suggest that you ask yourself what do you want in a friendship. I used to be the fixer and helper in friendships and since I learned to step back and let them get on with things, I have lost a lot of 'friends'. I now have one very close friend and a few acquaintances. I used to get frustrated with people never hardly texting or ringing me back, or the 'we will do something' and then nothing happens, etc. To be honest it drove me nuts so I dropped them and some of them dropped me when I stopped ringing and being so available. Also do you ever ask for help of other people? Sometimes people like to know they can help you too? You might come across as being so together that they think you are fine all of the time.

lizzie09

Another thing, don't confuse friends with acquaintances. Friend is the term thrown about for a lot of people but it doesn't really apply. Have a look through the list of numbers in your phone and I think you'll find that most of the people in it are just social acquaintances.
. I know loads of people that I meet on nights out or socialise with but while I do like them and they are nice people they aren't what I'd classify as real friends. They wouldn't go out of their way for me and I wouldn't go out of my way for them

Real friends are few and far between in my opinion. I only have a handful of friends I could completely rely on if I was in a tight spot. quote



OP this is exactly it........real friends are hard to come by and if you can
count a couple on your fingers thats great at the end of the day...

aquaintences are a different kettle of fish....good fun but don't expect
more...I think you just are vvaiting for the real friend to appear and its
going to happen.

unclecessna

Hi OP,

When I was your age and for a couple of years before that I felt the very same way that you do. I was making all the effort to be nice and get on with people and a lot of the time it just wasn't reciprocated. It was dissapointing and left me feeling not really wanted at the time but looking back on it half the problem was my own mindset of wanting to get on with everyone.

Now that I am a bit older and have more experience with people under my belt I take a very different approach to people.

You can't get on with everyone, it dosen't matter how nice or sound a person you are there will always be people who just won't like you for whatever reason. Simple - you can't change that so don't even let it worry you. Just smile and say hello to people like this when you come across them and leave it at that.

Other people are selfish and won't have the time for you when needed and equally there will be others who seem like they don't want to spend time with you but the real reason is they are having personal problems that are distracting them. Same approach as before but I take it a little further in this situation.

- Smile, ''hello how are you'', a bit of random chat and banter, maybe ask them if they want to go to the pub etc sometime but if they don't seem interested just ease off and leave it at that. And a lot of the time they actually will change their mind in later dealings with you when it is clear to them that you are not making so much of an effort this time around.

Finally there are people you meet who you will just click and get on with like a house on fire and everything will be mutual. This is the best scenario but also the rarest.

Finally learn to say ''no'' to people, try to get get a thicker skin and not be so bothered about people's reactions to you and follow the advice that other posters here have said about not always being available to those who are usually not so availabe to you.

Best wishes

parker larkin

aww mate, this brought me back a bit.
All the advice here is spot on.

Do step back from these people. Don't loan them money. Don't expect to get back money you've already loaned out. Chalk it up to experience and try not to let it get to you. And the same goes for the time, emotion and anything else you've given them.

Now back to the crux. There's a very old philosophy which states that the desire to have a friend and having a friend are two different things.
Real friendship takes time. A real friend is someone who wants to spend time with you, and you want to spend time with. Someone who accepts you, even at your worst. You know all this already, but it's worth remembering.
If the people you're hanging out with make you feel bad about yourself, however unintentional, then they're not the right friends for you and should only be regarded as acquaintances.

I absolutely guarantee you that it won't always be this way. You are a very lovely young man, and giving beyond your years. You don't need to be the 'fixer' or 'giver' with these people, it's over compensation for a connection which just isn't going to be reciprocated. You need to get to like yourself. And get your confidence up. You're clearly more sensitive and articulate than your peers and this is why you're hurting.
You don't have to settle for the way things are, you just need to learn to relax in your own skin and realise that you don't need to evaluate yourself through other people's opinions.
This is something we all do and all learn, over the years, to do less. It's an ongoing life lesson, and it gets easier and, dare I say it, interesting as life goes on!

You're a good person, you're a worthwhile person and you are valuable to others. You just haven't bumped into similar minded people yet, but you will! And when you do, you'll appreciate it fully because you've met these other f**kwits along the way!

xx

mollymascara

lizzie09 wrote: »

Another thing, don't confuse friends with acquaintances. Friend is the term thrown about for a lot of people but it doesn't really apply. Have a look through the list of numbers in your phone and I think you'll find that most of the people in it are just social acquaintances.
. I know loads of people that I meet on nights out or socialise with but while I do like them and they are nice people they aren't what I'd classify as real friends. They wouldn't go out of their way for me and I wouldn't go out of my way for them

Real friends are few and far between in my opinion. I only have a handful of friends I could completely rely on if I was in a tight spot. quote



OP this is exactly it........real friends are hard to come by and if you can
count a couple on your fingers thats great at the end of the day...

aquaintences are a different kettle of fish....good fun but don't expect
more...I think you just are vvaiting for the real friend to appear and its
going to happen.

+1. Great suggestions IMO.
I would have been like yourself OP, always the reliable one. I was never the life and sole of the party, or the joker or the popular one or whatever. I had people who for a long time I confused for friends, and I have since learned that they were merely acquaintances. To this day, I would say that I have 3 relly brill friends, the rest of the people in my life, acquaintances. Ive learned that I can still be there for them, help them out if needs be, but the biggest thing is I dont expect anything in return. If you have even one good person in your life, that is like yourself, in terms of being there, I would say you are a very privilaged individual, if not dont worry, because such a friendship will come your way. Just do your thing, believe in yourself, accept yourself for the person you are, a kind reliable and generous individual, who on occasion knows how to enjoy themselves, maybe not in the same ways as others but who cares, if YOU enjoy it, do it i say . Ive found that the more self belief and acceptance I have, the more tolerance I have for others, just as Im not some peoples cup of tea, no everyone is mine either, so chin up, yeah?

lizzie09

mollymascara wrote: »

+1. Great suggestions IMO.
I would have been like yourself OP, always the reliable one. I was never the life and sole of the party, or the joker or the popular one or whatever. I had people who for a long time I confused for friends, and I have since learned that they were merely acquaintances. To this day, I would say that I have 3 relly brill friends, the rest of the people in my life, acquaintances. Ive learned that I can still be there for them, help them out if needs be, but the biggest thing is I dont expect anything in return. If you have even one good person in your life, that is like yourself, in terms of being there, I would say you are a very privilaged individual, if not dont worry, because such a friendship will come your way. Just do your thing, believe in yourself, accept yourself for the person you are, a kind reliable and generous individual, who on occasion knows how to enjoy themselves, maybe not in the same ways as others but who cares, if YOU enjoy it, do it i say . Ive found that the more self belief and acceptance I have, the more tolerance I have for others, just as Im not some peoples cup of tea, no everyone is mine either, so chin up, yeah?

I think a lot of us here can identify here.....good friends,,,really good
friends are few and far between....others, enjoy but like said above expect
nothing back and maybe be nicely surprised..

I'm still learning myself!! Its hard to come to term with the realilty
esp if you are kind and helpful yourself but thats how you look at people
generally...enjoy and soon the true blues show their faces and stick
forever...the aquaintenances will always be around for a bit of fun when
and if YOU please.!!!

Hope you feel happier after reading all the posts!!

santana75

Some good, very well intended answers have been given but I dont think they get to the crux of the matter entirely. I think this is a deeper issue than what it appears to be on the surface. The important thing for me is what you said about history repeating itself. When history repeats itself in this way then its time to stop looking at other people and start looking at ourselves. Not such an easy thing to do. Its hard to address our own flaws in a compasionate and understanding way. People either dont look at their own flaws and continue to struggle in life or they go over board and beat themselves up about every slight imperfection. Neither way is ideal or even constructive. The trick is to be brave enough to face the things about yourself that arent so great but at the same time not beat yourself up.
Maybe you want these people to like you so much that its driving them away. And like you said, theres no malice intended on their part. But people pick things up, and its mostly on an unconscious level, which makes the issue even more difficult to deal with or pin down. I mean nobody will turn aorund and tell you to your face: Hey man, the reason we dont include you or invite you to things is because you need us too much. And when you need somebody too much it makes them uncomfortable and drives them away.
Nobody will say this to your face because very few people would have the self-awareness to pick something like that up in the first place.
I really dont think its because you're not funny or the life and soul of the party. I have friends who arent funny, exciting or whatever and people always want them around. They always get invited and called. And its because they dont need the attention of others so much. When you dont crave or need others so much it relaxes you and people like to be around others who are relaxed.
Have a read of this book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Disease-Please-Curing-People-Pleasing-Syndrome/dp/0071385649/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272302887&sr=1-1

There could be a lot of reasons why this is happening, the fact that history is reating itself is significant. Life is telling you that something aint right. And the answers lie within you so please dont start the "act unavailable to people" games. Because those are just silly games that will result in you second guessing yourself and others. So dont get caught up in playing games with people. If you look for answers within yourself you'll find out whats really going on here. You just need to be brave and take a clear, unflinching, honest look at yourself. But at the same time be understanding and dont beat yourself up.

unclecessna

santana75 wrote: »

Some good, very well intended answers have been given but I dont think they get to the crux of the matter entirely. I think this is a deeper issue than what it appears to be on the surface. The important thing for me is what you said about history repeating itself. When history repeats itself in this way then its time to stop looking at other people and start looking at ourselves. Not such an easy thing to do. Its hard to address our own flaws in a compasionate and understanding way. People either dont look at their own flaws and continue to struggle in life or they go over board and beat themselves up about every slight imperfection. Neither way is ideal or even constructive. The trick is to be brave enough to face the things about yourself that arent so great but at the same time not beat yourself up.
Maybe you want these people to like you so much that its driving them away. And like you said, theres no malice intended on their part. But people pick things up, and its mostly on an unconscious level, which makes the issue even more difficult to deal with or pin down. I mean nobody will turn aorund and tell you to your face: Hey man, the reason we dont include you or invite you to things is because you need us too much. And when you need somebody too much it makes them uncomfortable and drives them away.
Nobody will say this to your face because very few people would have the self-awareness to pick something like that up in the first place.
I really dont think its because you're not funny or the life and soul of the party. I have friends who arent funny, exciting or whatever and people always want them around. They always get invited and called. And its because they dont need the attention of others so much. When you dont crave or need others so much it relaxes you and people like to be around others who are relaxed.
Have a read of this book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Disease-Please-Curing-People-Pleasing-Syndrome/dp/0071385649/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272302887&sr=1-1

There could be a lot of reasons why this is happening, the fact that history is reating itself is significant. Life is telling you that something aint right. And the answers lie within you so please dont start the "act unavailable to people" games. Because those are just silly games that will result in you second guessing yourself and others. So dont get caught up in playing games with people. If you look for answers within yourself you'll find out whats really going on here. You just need to be brave and take a clear, unflinching, honest look at yourself. But at the same time be understanding and dont beat yourself up.

I don't really agree with this posters opinion to be honest. It's a little simplistic to me and I think that poster though well meaning I'm sure is reading too much into things that the OP has described.

While I completely agree that visibly needy people are a turn off to people I don't think that the OP really fits into that category.

To a certain extent we are all needy and selfish in so far as we do need contact with others and to spend time with others. From a purely objective viewpoint friends do ''use'' each other to satisfy their own natural needs for companionship and entertainment.

But there is a huge difference between seeking friendship as most of the human population do than there is to ''Crave'' the attention of others.
This is not something that the OP has said he was doing.

It seems to me this poster is possibly projecting something of his or her own past or present experiences with interacting with other people from an overly needy perspective onto the OP's situation.

But all that aside I do agree with the point of view put forward that history does repeat itself for a reason and that a lot of the time we need to look inside ourselves for the answers to our problems, but sometimes the problem can also be outside of our control i.e. in this case other individuals attitudes to people.

santana75

unclecessna wrote: »

I don't really agree with this posters opinion to be honest. It's a little simplistic to me and I think that poster though well meaning I'm sure is reading too much into things that the OP has described.

While I completely agree that visibly needy people are a turn off to people I don't think that the OP really fits into that category.

To a certain extent we are all needy and selfish in so far as we do need contact with others and to spend time with others. From a purely objective viewpoint friends do ''use'' each other to satisfy their own natural needs for companionship and entertainment.

But there is a huge difference between seeking friendship as most of the human population do than there is to ''Crave'' the attention of others.
This is not something that the OP has said he was doing.

It seems to me this poster is possibly projecting something of his or her own past or present experiences with interacting with other people from an overly needy perspective onto the OP's situation.

But all that aside I do agree with the point of view put forward that history does repeat itself for a reason and that a lot of the time we need to look inside ourselves for the answers to our problems, but sometimes the problem can also be outside of our control i.e. in this case other individuals attitudes to people.

Projection issues aside, from what I read in the OPs post there definitely does seem to be a fair amount of neediness and people chasing going on, which would cause problems. But I suppose these things are open to interpretation(and maybe projection). It doesnt really matter though, so long as somebody hit the nail on the head with a piece of advice given and was of help to the OP.

hayser

Just wanted to say I've read this thread with interest as sometimes I feel like this aswell and please believe me when I say that this seems to be becoming a more common problem for a lot of people. I think another factor is with the recession and everything people aren't going out as much. I know myself when I'm organising nights out I sometimes forget to send an text or email to some people and I always do my best to make sure I have included everyone. In a way I am glad to see I'm not the only one to have witnessed this problem as if were persisitent over a number of years it could do a lot to damage a persons confidence.