LLM Human Rights Law - UCD

Poacher turned Gamekeeper

Hi,

Im wondering if anyone here has heard anything about the new LLM in Human Rights Law to be offered at UCD next Autumn?

Specifically how would it measure up to the programmes currently on offer in either Galway or Queens?

I appreciate its a new programme so there might not be a whole lot of information available as of yet but anything anyone has heard would be of interest and may assist.

I attach a link to the programme as set out on the UCD website for anyone interested.

http://www.ucd.ie/law/programmes/llmhumanrights/

Thanks

PtG

Arsenal1986

Don't know too much about this one just that the Galway one has an excellent reputation. As an aside why are Human rights LLMs so popular? I know so many of my ex classmates went on to do them, just wondering what the appeal is, what areas ppl hope to get careers in after doing one?

_JOE_

I wouldn't be fully informed as to how the UCD programme will be structured, but from having completed postgrads in UCD before, i know that you will have a choice (if you like) to take modules outside your area of specialisation.

For example, you will need to complete 120 credits in total, 90 to specialise in HR, 60 of which will come from your thesis.

You then have 30 credits to play around with, so you could either take a further 3 modules in HR or take other modules from within the LLM. One such module i would recommend would be Oonagh Breen's Comparative charity law module.

johnnyskeleton

PtG of TPP fame?

Just going on the programme list, it looks like UCD are coming at it from a highly political slant. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the modules are provided by the Politics / Development Studies departments. Of the core modules, 2 are law and 2 are politics:

• Law of the ECHR
• Intenational Human Rights Law
• Political Theory of Human Rights
• Politics of Human Rights

And while the modules have specific legal subjects such as charity regulation and discrimination law, they also have international security and "Poverty, Development and Global Justice" modules.

By contrast, Galway looks a bit more law oriented with modules on refugee law, minority and childrens rights etc.

So perhaps it depends on what you want it for. If it is for academic reasons or to work with an NGO/UN etc then UCD might be a good option. If it is for pursuit of a career in human rights areas of law then maybe galway might have the edge.

Specifically if you are currently working then there are practical considerations as well as academic.

Poacher turned Gamekeeper

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

PtG of TPP fame?

Just going on the programme list, it looks like UCD are coming at it from a highly political slant. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the modules are provided by the Politics / Development Studies departments. Of the core modules, 2 are law and 2 are politics:

• Law of the ECHR
• Intenational Human Rights Law
• Political Theory of Human Rights
• Politics of Human Rights

And while the modules have specific legal subjects such as charity regulation and discrimination law, they also have international security and "Poverty, Development and Global Justice" modules.

By contrast, Galway looks a bit more law oriented with modules on refugee law, minority and childrens rights etc.

So perhaps it depends on what you want it for. If it is for academic reasons or to work with an NGO/UN etc then UCD might be a good option. If it is for pursuit of a career in human rights areas of law then maybe galway might have the edge.

Specifically if you are currently working then there are practical considerations as well as academic.

One and the same Johnny

Thanks for the replies. As to the question regarding the popularity of such programmes, Id imagine that at least in part (and beyond the vocational aspect) its that its transferable beyond these shores. For a doom monger like myself (Johnny knows what I mean ), thats a pretty attractive reason looking at the economic future of this country over the next 5-10 years.

For work reasons Galway or Queens arent options for me as Im based in Dublin and have bills to pay. Blackhall isnt really an option for financial reasons and while the Inns is possibly (my work would possibly pay for it), Im not sure it would really be for me or indeed, whether there is much point to it at the moment.

So I seem to be coming around to going the Masters route. Trinity would have been the first option but they dont offer the LLM part-time. This LLM Human Rights in UCD is part time and therefore fits the bill to a degree.

Id agree that it seems quite focussed on the political aspect as opposed to being a pure legal based programme. But to be honest that would probably suit me to a degree and may even actually make it more attractive.

Anyway thanks again to those who replied. And any further insights are most welcome.

PtG

Kiwi_knock

Am only in first year of law but am particularly interested in the area of human rights law. Have heard of the Galway and Queens ones but did not know that their was one available in UCD, which would be a lot handier. Any more info on it would be great.

johnnyskeleton

Poacher turned Gamekeeper wrote: »

One and the same Johnny

Might I suggest a visit to the Irish Economy and Budget forum during your stay:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1196

Poacher turned Gamekeeper wrote: »

As to the question regarding the popularity of such programmes, Id imagine that at least in part (and beyond the vocational aspect) its that its transferable beyond these shores.

On the one hand yes, on the other hand I take it I don't need to tell you that human rights lawyers are not exactly priority number 1 for most countries, so if I can put it this way - it's just as useful abroad as it is here!

Poacher turned Gamekeeper wrote: »

Blackhall isnt really an option for financial reasons and while the Inns is possibly (my work would possibly pay for it), Im not sure it would really be for me or indeed, whether there is much point to it at the moment.

While I'm not suggesting that you should choose one path over the other and am completely neutral as to whether an LLM or BL is better, I would say:

1) what part of free degree do you not understand?
2) while irish professional qualifications are not particularly transferrable (good for UK, alright for other common law countries (Canada/Oz/NZ/HK etc), equal to a basic law degree for the New York bar exams) having a professional qualification sounds better to me than having a masters in a fairly academic area. Plus, saying youre a barrister sounds good in some parts of Oz, where to become a barrister you usually have to have spent a few years as a solicitor.
3) there are a fair few threads in this forum on whether there is much point to qualifying as a barrister at the moment (i'm not going to get into it now, as it tends to stir up some discontent)

Poacher turned Gamekeeper wrote: »

So I seem to be coming around to going the Masters route. Trinity would have been the first option but they dont offer the LLM part-time. This LLM Human Rights in UCD is part time and therefore fits the bill to a degree.

Does it have to be a taught masters as opposed to an M.Litt? AFAIK, Trinity will let you do an M.Litt at arms length.

Poacher turned Gamekeeper wrote: »

Id agree that it seems quite focussed on the political aspect as opposed to being a pure legal based programme. But to be honest that would probably suit me to a degree and may even actually make it more attractive.

You might then want to look into programmes offered by the politics department as well:

http://www.ucd.ie/spire/currentmastersprogrammes/mschumanrights/

Poacher turned Gamekeeper

Thanks for the lengthy response Johnny.

I suppose Ill have to think about it a bit. Ive actually just remembered that as I didnt take Equity as part of my LLB, I dont think it would be recognised by the Inns - so it looks like Im ruled out of that.

Food for thought.

Cheers

Electric

Poacher turned Gamekeeper wrote: »

So I seem to be coming around to going the Masters route. Trinity would have been the first option but they dont offer the LLM part-time. This LLM Human Rights in UCD is part time and therefore fits the bill to a degree.

I finished my LLM in UCD last August and despite what they say there is no part time option! The only difference between full and part time is that the part time one takes longer. There are feck all classes after 5pm, I had to take two half days from work every week just to go to class. All the classes are held during the day and the timetable changes drastically from semester to semester, so when you sign up for Semester 2 classes in Semester 1 there's a fairly high chance they'll be cancelled or rearranged.

While I was happy to get the qualification, it really was such a badly organised course. I found the staff very good and helpful but if you're going for this because you think it will fit in well with working full time I'd advise you to think again!

Poacher turned Gamekeeper

Electric wrote: »

I finished my LLM in UCD last August and despite what they say there is no part time option! The only difference between full and part time is that the part time one takes longer. There are feck all classes after 5pm, I had to take two half days from work every week just to go to class. All the classes are held during the day and the timetable changes drastically from semester to semester, so when you sign up for Semester 2 classes in Semester 1 there's a fairly high chance they'll be cancelled or rearranged.

While I was happy to get the qualification, it really was such a badly organised course. I found the staff very good and helpful but if you're going for this because you think it will fit in well with working full time I'd advise you to think again!

Oh dear. Further food for thought.

Thanks.

hada

OP,

Having had many friends who have done the various flavours of Human Rights' Masters available in NUIG, they couldn't recommend it enough. The faculty are bar none, the best HR faculty operating in the country (with names like Schabas operating, you really can't go wrong).

What is also quite important to note is that a number of friends who have done LL.Ms/PhDs there have made some fantastic connections and got to work on great projects that the Lecturers are working on also. Might be very useful if you really want to make a stab at a field, which to be honest, is heavily over subscribed with idealists who really don't stand a chance at gaining meaningful employment.

shaneybaby

hada wrote: »

OP,

heavily over subscribed with idealists who really don't stand a chance at gaining meaningful employment.

Goddamn hippies;)

hada

shaneybaby wrote: »

Goddamn hippies;)

Not at all. Or at least, I'm one of those 'hippies'.

I should qualify that statement a bit more.

What I meant was, especially with public law/HR, it is very important to get as much concrete experience as possible. The whole field has the very minimum of available paid positions, which are generally heavily over to those who are a) academically excellent and b) have years of prior (poorly paid/unpaid) experience.

Also, if you really want to get involved in HR, you may have to leave Ireland, at least initially. There are far more (albeit as noted, not many) opportunities abroad - London for example has a number of high profile NGOs, etc.

Going back to point, based on my friends' previous experience, they felt they were given plenty of opportunity to work on side projects with academics while studying at NUIG. This has proved important when eventually they have applied to jobs, etc.

shaneybaby

hada wrote: »

Not at all. Or at least, I'm one of those 'hippies'.

I should qualify that statement a bit more.

What I meant was, especially with public law/HR, it is very important to get as much concrete experience as possible. The whole field has the very minimum of available paid positions, which are generally heavily over to those who are a) academically excellent and b) have years of prior (poorly paid/unpaid) experience.

Also, if you really want to get involved in HR, you may have to leave Ireland, at least initially. There are far more (albeit as noted, not many) opportunities abroad - London for example has a number of high profile NGOs, etc.

Going back to point, based on my friends' previous experience, they felt they were given plenty of opportunity to work on side projects with academics while studying at NUIG. This has proved important when eventually they have applied to jobs, etc.

Sorry didn't mean it like that. i agree with you anyways, while not someone who has done that course i know plenty that have. Mind you plenty of the idealists have jobs although most of them are not in Ireland or the UK.

mbnxztp1qyevf9

_JOE_ wrote: »

For example, you will need to complete 120 credits in total, 90 to specialise in HR, 60 of which will come from your thesis.

You then have 30 credits to play around with, so you could either take a further 3 modules in HR or take other modules from within the LLM. One such module i would recommend would be Oonagh Breen's Comparative charity law module.

The HR LLM is 90 credits: 60 from classes and 30 for the thesis. It's jointly offered by the School of Law and the School of Politics/Int'l Relations, so that's why there is an equal emphasis on both disciplines. However, if you wanted to specialise in one particular area of HR law, you could certainly do that with your optional modules.

nadeshade

Hi there!
I'm in a similar predicament to yourself.
Want to do a human rights related postgrad this year, was looking at the Msc in human rights in UCD, but it didn't look that great, i did my degree in UCD in sociology and politics and it looks like pretty much the same course, with a 10,000 word thesis slapped on at the end. i also didn't really enjoy ucd in general.
I was then looking at the LLM in international human rights (full time, as i work part time) which looks fantastic in terms of course content, but i am also based in dublin and am not in a position to move down to galway.
The course coordinator said to me via email that it may be possible to organise my timetable so that all my classes are in one day ie i could commute from dublin, so maybe thats an option for you also, especially if you did it part time.
I'm gonna fish around on boards and see if anyone here has done the LLM in galway while based in dublin.
I didn't realize that UCD offered a LLM in human rights, but i just looked at the course guide there and it seems to be much the same as the Msc.
keep us posted of your decision!