Street Justice?

cson

Gangland crime boss killed last night in Cabra; warned by the Gardai that his life was under threat [shouldn't they be trying to put this lad in jail rather than telling him he needs to protect himself?]

My question is; should we just let the animals wipe themselves out? Certainly seems to be a faster moving justice system than the one we currently have. I know innocent bystanders/free for all/anarchy but in my mind street justice is much more efficient than what we have now.

:pac:

minidazzler

cson wrote: »

Gangland crime boss killed last night in Cabra; warned by the Gardai that his life was under threat [shouldn't they be trying to put this lad in jail rather than telling him he needs to protect himself?]

My question is; should we just let the animals wipe themselves out? Certainly seems to be a faster moving justice system than the one we currently have. I know innocent bystanders/free for all/anarchy but in my mind street justice is much more efficient than what we have now.

:pac:

Good riddance, and inb4 do gooders "What about his family" He deserved it.

The problem with them wiping eachother out is that it is not justice, it's killing for power.

Now if some masked vigilante went and started....

OutlawPete

cson wrote: »

.. should we just let the animals wipe themselves out?

No.

If we did, we would be no better than them.

These scumbags don't hold any great regard on another's life.

We do.

445279.ie

You live by the sword, you die by the sword

AckwelFoley

OutlawPete wrote: »

No.

If we did, we would be no better than them.

This being said by Outlawpete :pac:

cson

OutlawPete wrote: »

No.

If we did, we would be no better than them.

These scumbags don't hold any great regard on another's life.

We do.

Its not us thats doing it, let them wipe each other out I say.

Fuck 'em, and everyone that looks like 'em.

My name is URL

cson wrote: »

My question is; should we just let the animals wipe themselves out?

Doesn't work like that unfortunately.. look at places in the US where turf wars are commonplace. Violence breeds violence, and if it appears that the Gardai have no control over it; it means that more people become involved

OutlawPete

cson wrote: »

Its not us thats doing it

I never said it was us doing it.

Your question was ..

cson wrote: »

..should we just let the animals wipe themselves out?

My answer is - 'No, we shouldn't'.

Sofiztikated

cson wrote: »

[shouldn't they be trying to put this lad in jail rather than telling him he needs to protect himself?]

This was my thought when I heard this. Why tell the scum to protect themselves?

And no, all out gangland warfare is not a good option, as more people pick up guns to "avenge" the thugs that die, creating a vicious cycle.

cson

In all seriousness, I know a hypothetical like I've outlined would never work in practice as it'd spill out of control.

But I still can't help wishing that they all wiped themselves out [more will come along I hear you say, and that's fair point].

mikom

cson wrote: »

My question is; should we just let the animals wipe themselves out? Certainly seems to be a faster moving justice system than the one we currently have. I know innocent bystanders/free for all/anarchy but in my mind street justice is much more efficient than what we have now.

:pac:

Ron: "Did you throw a trident?"
Brick: "Yeah. There were horses and a man on fire and I killed a guy with a trident."

OutlawPete

Sofiztikated wrote: »

And no, all out gangland warfare is not a good option, as more people pick up guns to "avenge" the thugs that die, creating a vicious cycle.

Exactly and you also have the possibility of innocent lives being lost as was the case with Anthony Campbell.

These scumbags would murder each other over the smallest of beefs, whether or not we feel sympathy for them or not is irrelevant, we have a duty to protect Irish citizens from meeting bloody violent deaths, even if they are not pillars of the community.

Son Of A Vidic

Irish Prison Service Annual Report December 2008.... http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1220/1229725700591.html

1 Prisoner in Portlaoise costs us €270,000 per year.

1 Prisoner in Shelton Abbey costs us €107,800 per year.

1 Prisoner in St. Pat's costs us €106,800 per year.

However, we do get great value from Loughan House, because costs there for the year works out at a mere €82,200 per prisoner.

Loughan House is an open low security prison and yet costs us €82K + per year, Why?
We simply profile the inmates in the system into two groups. Group 1: Highly dangerous/posing a risk to the public. Group 2: No risk to the public etc. We then remove the group 1 category to one of our unpopulated islands and provide 'materials' to aid their mutual destruction. Any survivors should be returned to the prison system, remaining separated from the general prison population. They should then spend the remainder of their lives working on chain gangs, doing hard labour surviving the Irish public. Prison should not be a University' of/for crime, but it should be a powerful disincentive against crime.

Schism

You say that they'll wipe themselves out. In reality there's always going to be multiple people left after a killing that have aspirations of the position this guy had.

minidazzler

medicman2009 wrote: »

Loughan House is an open low security prison and yet costs us €82K + per year, Why?

Paying Prison Officers, Food, Electricity, Upkeep and lots of other costs.

In Portloaise paying the Army too.

Then there are escorts, so petrol and maintainence of vehicles.

The costs do make sense overall. Though they are still very high.

TriciaDelicia

Street Justice?
Most definitely!

Cheap Thrills!

Irish 'Gangland' is just a load of scummy, fat chavs with bad tatts thinking they are Scarface.

Twats.

weiland79

medicman2009 wrote: »

We then remove the group 1 category to one of our unpopulated islands and provide 'materials' to aid their mutual destruction. Any survivors should be returned to the prison system, remaining separated from the general prison population. They should then spend the remainder of their lives working on chain gangs, doing hard labour surviving the Irish public. Prison should not be a University' of/for crime, but it should be a powerful disincentive against crime.

Sounds great, can we broadcast it on the tellie. I wouldn't mind paying for my poxy TV licence on Monday if i knew this was on.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

minidazzler wrote: »

Good riddance, and inb4 do gooders "What about his family" He deserved it.

The problem with them wiping eachother out is that it is not justice, it's killing for power.

Now if some masked vigilante went and started....

Exactly what 'do-gooders' are you talking about? Seriously?

amacachi

medicman2009 wrote: »

Irish Prison Service Annual Report December 2008.... http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1220/1229725700591.html

1 Prisoner in Portlaoise costs us €270,000 per year.

1 Prisoner in Shelton Abbey costs us €107,800 per year.

1 Prisoner in St. Pat's costs us €106,800 per year.

However, we do get great value from Loughan House, because costs there for the year works out at a mere €82,200 per prisoner.

Loughan House is an open low security prison and yet costs us €82K + per year, Why?
We simply profile the inmates in the system into two groups. Group 1: Highly dangerous/posing a risk to the public. Group 2: No risk to the public etc. We then remove the group 1 category to one of our unpopulated islands and provide 'materials' to aid their mutual destruction. Any survivors should be returned to the prison system, remaining separated from the general prison population. They should then spend the remainder of their lives working on chain gangs, doing hard labour surviving the Irish public. Prison should not be a University' of/for crime, but it should be a powerful disincentive against crime.

Great until one of the people defined as low-risk reoffends. But I suppose we could just hire loads of people to work out if they're high or low risk, but you don't seem to like spending money on it.

cson wrote: »

In all seriousness, I know a hypothetical like I've outlined would never work in practice as it'd spill out of control.

But I still can't help wishing that they all wiped themselves out [more will come along I hear you say, and that's fair point].

I don't think anyone would not want them to all be gone.

uprising2

cson wrote: »

Gangland crime boss killed last night in Cabra; warned by the Gardai that his life was under threat [shouldn't they be trying to put this lad in jail rather than telling him he needs to protect himself?]

My question is; should we just let the animals wipe themselves out? Certainly seems to be a faster moving justice system than the one we currently have. I know innocent bystanders/free for all/anarchy but in my mind street justice is much more efficient than what we have now.

:pac:

Yea true, but in jail he would have lost zero control over having people/anybody killed, a lot of murders are ordered from behind bars.

galwayrush

I'm not sorry the scumbag's dead , but some other scumbag will take his place and the general public will continue to suffer at their hands.

bonerm

Schism wrote: »

You say that they'll wipe themselves out. In reality there's always going to be multiple people left after a killing that have aspirations of the position this guy had.

Exactly. You have to destroy their chain of operation and revenue sources, not just sit back and believe they will eventually wipe all players from both sides out like some sort of simple game of tic-tac-toe

Forget death and taxes. The only certainty in life istThere'll always be some little scumbag out there who'll be wating in the wings to take the place of guys like Dunne. So you have to make sure there is no opportunity for them to make a profitable career out of this type of lifestyle, or at least make sure that doing so is going to be uncomfortable & difficult as possible.

I wonder what people who say rival drug gangs should be allowed to wipe each other out would say to the family of Anthony Campbell (an innocent who was killed during a hit ordered by Dunne) simply because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time?

problemchimp

the young apprentice plumber killed in Finglas while working hard was a result of them "wiping each other out". he is sadly dead yet more scum keep coming along. jail, hard labour, no tv or lesuire facilities and no early release programmes. Break the spirit of the bastards !!!!!Humiliate the cnuts.

--LOS--

They are never wiped out, only replaced, I'd rather not see them replaced a faster rate than they already are imo!

fizzynicenice

medicman2009 wrote: »

1 Prisoner in Portlaoise costs us €270,000 per year.

1 Prisoner in Shelton Abbey costs us €107,800 per year.

1 Prisoner in St. Pat's costs us €106,800 per year.

1 prisoner in Mountjoy; €48.50c per year

Augmerson

Just thinking. People are always up in arms about Make-up companies experimenting on animals and such. Why don't we use our worst offenders for these experiments? Scientific and medical experiments too. They could also be organ donors. **** it, why not? If you commit serious crimes like murder and paedophilia you should lose all right to be a part of our society.

/me strokes his right-wing self and contemplates ringing Joeeeeeeee Duffy.

amacachi

Augmerson wrote: »

Just thinking. People are always up in arms about Make-up companies experimenting on animals and such. Why don't we use our worst offenders for these experiments? Scientific and medical experiments too. They could also be organ donors. **** it, why not? If you commit serious crimes like murder and paedophilia you should lose all right to be a part of our society.

/me strokes his right-wing self and contemplates ringing Joeeeeeeee Duffy.

They're paedophiles Joe! And they're giving them make-up Joe! They have more makeup than I have Joe!

MaybeLogic

Sun headline; 'Don done with dumdums'.

DazMarz

So Scumbag X was gunned down last night.

Scumbag Y, Z, A, B and C will now emerge from the woodwork and try to take his place. They will use violence and killing to acheive this.

Scumbag Y takes power.

Scumbag Y lasts 18 months before he is gunned down.

Scumbag Z, A, B, C, and now D emerge from the woodwork.... and so it goes.

Street "justice" acheives nothing.

This was not even street justice. It was gangland warfare. It is not something that should be encouraged.

While I'd have no sympathy for these utter lowlife pieces of shít, I'd certainly prefer to see them banged up in the clink for the rest of their oxygen breathing days that to see them murdered.

PK2008

Anyone know where Trent was when all this happened?

JohnMearsheimer

You live by the sword you die by the sword. There will always be idiots trying to work their way up the ladder.

merengueca

medicman2009 wrote: »

Irish Prison Service Annual Report December 2008.... http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1220/1229725700591.html

1 Prisoner in Portlaoise costs us €270,000 per year.

1 Prisoner in Shelton Abbey costs us €107,800 per year.

1 Prisoner in St. Pat's costs us €106,800 per year.

However, we do get great value from Loughan House, because costs there for the year works out at a mere €82,200 per prisoner.

Loughan House is an open low security prison and yet costs us €82K + per year, Why?
We simply profile the inmates in the system into two groups. Group 1: Highly dangerous/posing a risk to the public. Group 2: No risk to the public etc. We then remove the group 1 category to one of our unpopulated islands and provide 'materials' to aid their mutual destruction. Any survivors should be returned to the prison system, remaining separated from the general prison population. They should then spend the remainder of their lives working on chain gangs, doing hard labour surviving the Irish public. Prison should not be a University' of/for crime, but it should be a powerful disincentive against crime.

http://images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/27381.jpg

genericguy

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

You live by the sword you die by the sword. There will always be idiots trying to work their way up the ladder.

and the reason there's a ladder to work up: prohibition.

it'll get uglier over the summer now that legal highs are going to become illegal. i wonder if anyone on the cabinet realises that they have effectively given drug dealers a pay rise with these laws.

Kirnsy

I wouldn't be shedding any tears for them getting murdered but I wouldn't advocate sitting back and letting them all wipe each other out. They are safer to society in prison where they belong...

evercloserunion

genericguy wrote: »

and the reason there's a ladder to work up: prohibition.

it'll get uglier over the summer now that legal highs are going to become illegal. i wonder if anyone on the cabinet realises that they have effectively given drug dealers a pay rise with these laws.

Well we can't have them striking too.

Regarding the question in the OP, I have no sympathy for dealers who get wiped out but I agree that a lax attitude towards the situation on the part of the authorities would only draw more people into the violence who might otherwise have gotten out.

We need to make prison a less happy place for them though. How much would you have to pay a lad to work in Portlaoise Prison sodomising convicted dealers for a living? Might take a few off the dole lines.

medicman2009

medicman2009 wrote: »

1 Prisoner in Portlaoise costs us €270,000 per year.

1 Prisoner in Shelton Abbey costs us €107,800 per year.

1 Prisoner in St. Pat's costs us €106,800 per year.

Loughan House... €82,200 per prisoner.

What I don't understand about this argument, is the reaction to the above seems to be "we can't afford to put any more in prison".

The true reaction should be "double the amount of people to a cell. All TVs, Radios, toiletries, 'luxury items' and any items remotely expensiev or likely to retain value that are not belong to prison guards sold at Garda Auction immediately. Reduce quality of food and portions. All clothes/bedclothes/etc. cleaning performed 50% less often. If there are subscription fees (internet, TV licenses, etc.) opt for cheaper alternatives or remove completely (or reserve for prison guards only)."


Not too difficult in fairness. T'is prison, ater all.

Son Of A Vidic

amacachi wrote: »

Great until one of the people defined as low-risk reoffends.

Then they'll be simply moved to the high risk group, sent to the 'island' and survivors will end up rotting doing hard labour. I would imagine that many prospective petty criminals, would find my proposals highly demotivating for their career path.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

cson wrote: »

Gangland crime boss killed last night in Cabra; warned by the Gardai that his life was under threat [shouldn't they be trying to put this lad in jail rather than telling him he needs to protect himself?]

My question is; should we just let the animals wipe themselves out? Certainly seems to be a faster moving justice system than the one we currently have. I know innocent bystanders/free for all/anarchy but in my mind street justice is much more efficient than what we have now.

:pac:

Think of magpies. You can kill and kill and kill magpies in an area over a period of years, yet they still come back. You see, the boss has only died for another figure to take his place. I would love to see them wipe themselves out, but at the same time, it's only going to continue. It will get worse and innocent people will get involved too. I mean, what if a stray bullet hit another innocent person in that pub and killed him.

rednik

If only his bail had been revoked.

me_right_one

Let them wipe each other out? We should be killing them! Death penalty for gang member scum. Then there would be no-one to replace anybody.

evercloserunion

me_right_one wrote: »

Let them wipe each other out? We should be killing them! Death penalty for gang member scum. Then there would be no-one to replace anybody.

Of course there would.

El Siglo

This thread reminds me of "The Wire", one group saying 'bust heads, that's the west side way'. If you want to really destroy these criminals, you don't kill them, you destroy their base. You seize assets, freeze bank accounts, destroy their base of income, destroy their reputation, start using them against each other, build up a better network of touts, start tapping into their phones and emails, monitor every movement they make, use more undercover people, better witness protection etc...
I mean, you could let them kill each other but it would end up sooner or later with innocent people getting killed. The reason why these criminals have no fear is that they know the gardai are restricted by legal procedures and archaic laws which prevents them from doing what is essentially common practice in other countries. Yeh you could send them to some sort of concentration camp, but once there's a demand for drugs then there'll be drug dealers. Best you can do is update the legal system to cope with these problems and equip the gardai with better gear and give them better training.