Will Ireland be calling the IMF next

Muckie

Well folks is it our next step as a Nation, or
will our Leaders guide us away from the rocks!
What do you reckon.(I think there's no more lifeboats left).

AARRRRGH

Ireland is a long long way from the IMF. Time people stopped the scaremongering at every opportunity. You cant just come out and say "oh dear, the IMF are coming to Ireland". A bit of research will tell you all you need to know. Its been discussed in depth on Boards anyway. Use the search function.

Muckie

Well that sure told me. Thanks.

RichardAnd

I started a thread on this very subject just a few weeks ago and it went on for a good many pages. It was called "Ireland and the IMF". If you look a few pages back, you'll find it.

Muckie

Grand job, will read.

changes

Well if the IMF's recommendations for greece are anything to go by we should be less fearful of them and more fearful of brian lenihan.

The IMF only want a 3 year pay freeze for a country that is in the state greece is in.... have the PS taken far more than we should with pension levy and paycuts?

They have been told over and over that if the IMF come into ireland we will be facing cuts of 30% to 50% i'm not so sure now!

Head The Wall

changes wrote: »

Well if the IMF's recommendations for greece are anything to go by we should be less fearful of them and more fearful of brian lenihan.

The IMF only want a 3 year pay freeze for a country that is in the state greece is in.... have the PS taken far more than we should with pension levy and paycuts?

They have been told over and over that if the IMF come into ireland we will be facing cuts of 30% to 50% i'm not so sure now!

Haven't they already implemented a pay freeze and that hasn't fixed the problem. I seriously doubt thats all the IMF will be wanting

Pete M.

Nevermind the IMF.
They're just the over seers of the banking system that just failed.
They can't 'sort us out'.
Fair play to the Greek PS Unions for standing up to them.
It's up to us to sort us out.

northwest100

I'm watching the irish bonds and what speculators are doing...like trying to cash in on euro collapsing.

A secretive group of Wall Street hedge fund bosses are said to be behind a plot to cash in on the decline of the euro.

Mr Soros, who made more than $1billion by currency speculation when the pound was ejected from the Exchange Rate Mechanism on Black Wednesday in 1992, believes the structure of the euro is 'patently flawed'.

man who broke bank of england in 1992

Greece have just banned short selling for 2 months, effective from wednesday..bit late tbh

IMF are basically the likes of Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan & Chase are they not?

Diarmuid

Yeah it's the fault of the evil speculators lending Greece money, not the Greek government for living beyond their means , cooking the books, and lying about it for years

Nody

changes wrote: »

Well if the IMF's recommendations for greece are anything to go by we should be less fearful of them and more fearful of brian lenihan.

The IMF only want a 3 year pay freeze for a country that is in the state greece is in.... have the PS taken far more than we should with pension levy and paycuts?

And increased taxes, VAT and of course the removal of bonuses in PS (they have two months of salary as "bonus" that is always theirs, the 13th and 14th salary for Christmas and Easter respectively so that's a 14.2% cut alone) along with general PS benefits. The government is still working on HOW they are going to get those 24 Billion EUR savings done as well in the next two years (i.e. IMF don't require them to cut PS wages but they have to come up with the saving target from some where either by bringing in new fees/taxes or cutting costs).

Then again the Greece system was such a joke in the set up in the first place.

Head The Wall

Pete M. wrote: »

Nevermind the IMF.
They're just the over seers of the banking system that just failed.
They can't 'sort us out'.
Fair play to the Greek PS Unions for standing up to them.
It's up to us to sort us out.

Soon they'll be standing up at the dole queue

Instead of sitting down at their jobs

danbohan

Pete M. wrote: »

Nevermind the IMF.
They're just the over seers of the banking system that just failed.
They can't 'sort us out'.
Fair play to the Greek PS Unions for standing up to them.
It's up to us to sort us out.

good on you boy , fair play to you , you tell them , you have whole thing sussed
are all public servants as clued in as this one , one wonders !

MaceFace

changes wrote: »

Well if the IMF's recommendations for greece are anything to go by we should be less fearful of them and more fearful of brian lenihan.

The IMF only want a 3 year pay freeze for a country that is in the state greece is in.... have the PS taken far more than we should with pension levy and paycuts?

They have been told over and over that if the IMF come into ireland we will be facing cuts of 30% to 50% i'm not so sure now!

Huh? I don't think the IMF are saying too much yet, and it is Germany that is leading the charge considering they are ponying up the majority of the money.
Last I heard, the measures included the removal of the Easter and Christmas double payments (essentially a 14% pay cut) as well as VAT increase by 2-4%. I am sure that is only the start, but you are right - anyone thinking the PS could have their salaries cut by 30-50% is just plain wrong. It would lead to that entire sector of society defaulting on their debts and the country in a worse position that before.

northwest100 wrote: »

I'm watching the irish bonds and what speculators are doing...like trying to cash in on euro collapsing.

A secretive group of Wall Street hedge fund bosses are said to be behind a plot to cash in on the decline of the euro.

I kind of agree with you on this. There is no doubt that there are concerted efforts by major financial "players" to bring certain countries and possibly currencies to the edge so they can reap massive profits.
I fear that those "players" have made their huge profits on Greece and are now cashing in their chips and plotting their move to a different country. I fear that next move is Ireland as it is would be the sensible thing.
A move on Portugal or Spain could bring the entire of Europe down which would essentially shorten the game and thus reduce the amount of money they could make. It would be in their interests to keep this stewing for months or more so they can move from one country to the next slowly milking much larger profits.
So, have a run on Ireland, and worse case scenario is that either we are bailed out like Greece or we are forced to withdraw from the Euro. Either way, those "players" will move on to the next Euro country.

Maybe this should be in the conspiracy theory thread, but I actually think it is there is some credence to this because if you look at the decisions that the politicians around the world have made, I find it hard to believe that they took those decisions if they knew all the information.

northwest100

Diarmuid wrote:

Yeah it's the fault of the evil speculators lending Greece money, not the Greek government for living beyond their means , cooking the books, and lying about it for years

Sarcasm noted, Diarmuid.
Are you suffering from stockholm syndrome?
We're being held hostage by financial terrorists and you blame yourself.

"It's my fault...they gave me the money knowing I couldn't pay it back, but it's all my fault"

Then the banks are in trouble, go to the government "Hey, if you don't give us X, we're gonna blow this economy up!.."

This is after they knew all the money being given away would never be paid back, except by the government who tells everyone "we had no choice"

It was Goldman Sachs's idea for a CDS which is helping undermine the entire eurozone, GS just also happen to make money from currency speculation, so you have to ask what was the true motive of Goldman Sachs hiding Greek debt?

From what i'm reading, it appears certain corruptible elements of EU governments, specifically so-called 'PIIGS' nations are in collusion with hedge funds such as Goldman Sachs and banks such as JP Morgan and Chase, to destroy the eurozone.

MaceFace wrote:

Maybe this should be in the conspiracy theory thread..

Why should it be in CT? it's simple fact of how hedge funds work.
That's how they make money, from gambling.

MaceFace

northwest100 wrote: »

Why should it be in CT? it's simple fact of how hedge funds work.
That's how they make money, from gambling.

But what I am wondering is if the forces at work are not just gambling on failure, but are actually forcing it to happen. For that to happen, they have to be much bigger than hedge funds.

Riskymove

changes wrote: »

Well if the IMF's recommendations for greece are anything to go by we should be less fearful of them and more fearful of brian lenihan.

The IMF only want a 3 year pay freeze for a country that is in the state greece is in.... have the PS taken far more than we should with pension levy and paycuts?

They have been told over and over that if the IMF come into ireland we will be facing cuts of 30% to 50% i'm not so sure now!

Greece and Ireland may have similar problems with regard to a deficit but the two countrys systems and institutions, costs, lifestyles etc are different

you simply cannot look at measures proposed for greece to mean that the same measures would be proposed for Ireland if the IMF came here

northwest100

Goldman Sachs are primary dealer in Irish Government Bonds.

You have the same people who caused the financial problems are now in charge of bailouts like the TARP in US and wallstreet reform...

MaceFace wrote:

For that to happen, they have to be much bigger than hedge funds.

Clearly, our politicians are in the pockets of bankers and those who aren't are powerless to do anything about it.

Take a look at Goldman Sachs.

Josh Bolten – Worked 5 years at Goldman Sachs, became White House Chief of Staff for George W. Bush.

Henry Paulson - as the 74th United States Treasury Secretary. He previously served as the Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Goldman Sachs.

William Dudley – Worked 21 years at Goldman Sachs, succeeded Tim Geithner as President of the New York Federal Reserve in 2009.

Tim Geithner - US treasury secretary for Obama

Rahm Emanuel – Current White House Chief of Staff [Obama], was originally hired by Bill Clinton as his chief fundraiser. At that time [1992] Emanuel was on the payroll of Goldman Sachs, receiving $3,000 per month from the firm to ‘”ntroduce us to people” according to a Goldman partner.

Goldman were top donor to Obama

the list of bankers involved in government is pretty long.

How the hell can these people be placed in charge of country for the benefit of it's people?

They're not in power to serve the people, just steal whatever wealth people have left.

alias141282

Diarmuid wrote: »

Yeah it's the fault of the evil speculators lending Greece money, not the Greek government for living beyond their means , cooking the books, and lying about it for years

It works both ways.

Lenders have a duty to lend responsibly as well. As I have said on this site before you cannot have a situation where banks are throwing money out the door at people who cannot realistically pay it back, and then for the banks to use the full force of the law to crush these people when they go into arrears. At the moment people struggling with their debts are suffering the consequences, while the banks are being bailed out. Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor.

MaceFace

northwest100 wrote: »

Goldman Sachs are primary dealer in Irish Government Bonds.

You have the same people who caused the financial problems are now in charge of bailouts like the TARP in US and wallstreet reform...



Clearly, our politicians are in the pockets of bankers and those who aren't are powerless to do anything about it.

Take a look at Goldman Sachs.

Josh Bolten – Worked 5 years at Goldman Sachs, became White House Chief of Staff for George W. Bush.

Henry Paulson - as the 74th United States Treasury Secretary. He previously served as the Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Goldman Sachs.

William Dudley – Worked 21 years at Goldman Sachs, succeeded Tim Geithner as President of the New York Federal Reserve in 2009.

Tim Geithner - US treasury secretary for Obama

Rahm Emanuel – Current White House Chief of Staff [Obama], was originally hired by Bill Clinton as his chief fundraiser. At that time [1992] Emanuel was on the payroll of Goldman Sachs, receiving $3,000 per month from the firm to ‘”ntroduce us to people” according to a Goldman partner.

Goldman were top donor to Obama

the list of bankers involved in government is pretty long.

How the hell can these people be placed in charge of country for the benefit of it's people?

They're not in power to serve the people, just steal whatever wealth people have left.

I agree that there is an undue influence from many of the money men on mainstream politics, but I actually believe it may go further and that there could be a concerted effort to bring countries to the edge (or over) to profit from them. I don't think any politician is involved in this because I think it is bigger than them but these "players" use those close to the politicians to unwittingly do their work.
Those responsible for this would not be known to you and I and certainly would not be working on Wall Street.

Sorry for going off topic, but the more I learn about what is happening, the more I believe it may be true.
Either that, or it is one hell of a set of coincidences!

EDIT: Portugal PM says the country is being targeted by speculative attacks, so wonder how it goes from speculative to full on attack?

Diarmuid

alias141282 wrote: »

Lenders have a duty to lend responsibly as well. As I have said on this site before you cannot have a situation where banks are throwing money out the door at people who cannot realistically pay it back, and then for the banks to use the full force of the law to crush these people when they go into arrears.

You realise that the "people" we are talking about is a developed western country, not some guy on the dole looking for a 300k mortgage?

SkepticOne

Muckie wrote: »

Well folks is it our next step as a Nation, or
will our Leaders guide us away from the rocks!
What do you reckon.(I think there's no more lifeboats left).

Most commentators seem to be saying that Portugal and Spain are next. Of course the Greek story is still very much ongoing.

oppenheimer1

northwest100 wrote: »

I'm watching the irish bonds and what speculators are doing...like trying to cash in on euro collapsing.

A secretive group of Wall Street hedge fund bosses are said to be behind a plot to cash in on the decline of the euro.

Mr Soros, who made more than $1billion by currency speculation when the pound was ejected from the Exchange Rate Mechanism on Black Wednesday in 1992, believes the structure of the euro is 'patently flawed'.

man who broke bank of england in 1992

Greece have just banned short selling for 2 months, effective from wednesday..bit late tbh

IMF are basically the likes of Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan & Chase are they not?

There are plenty of people that would love to see the Euro fail, both London and NY hate the single currency. The USA sees it as a threat to the Dollar as a reserve currency, and should the Dollar lose its status as the worlds reserve currency, the USA would no longer be able to write Cheques that are effectively never cashed. London doesn't like it from a purely ideological standpoint I understand.

SeanW

Pete M. wrote: »

Nevermind the IMF.
They're just the over seers of the banking system that just failed.
They can't 'sort us out'.
Fair play to the Greek PS Unions for standing up to them.

Because Greece has so much spare cash and budget surplusses lying around ...

mecanoman

AARRRRGH wrote: »

Ireland is a long long way from the IMF. Time people stopped the scaremongering at every opportunity. You cant just come out and say "oh dear, the IMF are coming to Ireland". A bit of research will tell you all you need to know. Its been discussed in depth on Boards anyway. Use the search function.

Love it!

Lets talk up the Economy folks, wonder will that help!