Constantly feel used...

LegacyUser

I'm a girl in my mid-twenties and so far this year, I've felt horrendously used. I know that that's rather self pitying, and a bit of a victim mentality, but I've never felt so powerless in my interactions with guys as I have of late, and I can't seem to change it or anticipate how things will go down.

I've slept with two guys so far this year. The first was a friend of mine for five or six months before we hooked up. He launched this onslaught of attention on me straight after breaking up with a girlfriend. I was lonely and fancied him so was very receptive to it. I was actually told by him two days after we slept together (during a heated conversation after I had a run-in with his ex) that he knew being with me would make her really jealous and angry, and that I'd basically served my purpose. Every time I've seen him out since, he's nodded at me but that's it. He was so nasty though that it pushed me to forget about him quickly enough and not wallow in it.

The second guy is a different story. I met him a while ago on a night out..we kissed that night and similarly, he bombarded me with texts and phonecalls, always on facebook to me etc. I was trying to take things really slowly and not rush into things, so held off on sleeping with him for longer than I normally would. He was doing everything right and I'd started to trust him and was very comfortable with him. We slept together a few days ago for the first time and it was lovely and affectionate and really great... Almost immediately afterwards, he began ignoring me. Not calling, not texting, sending two word responses to my texts etc. I know when a guy has lost interest or isn't bothered and he has, I can tell. I'm horribly disappointed. I genuinely thought there was a lot of potential there and he'd made it very clear that he apparently adored me!

I'm wracking my brains trying to figure out what I could have said or done.. This seems to happen to me a LOT. I need to say this cos it is relevant I think, but I'm a very pretty girl. I spent years hating myself and have only become confident in the last year or so. I'm in a great job, have lovely friends and family, dress very well, am a size six and am with a modelling agency too. I feel as though guys see me as a challenge to sleep with and then the chase is over when they eventually do. I seem to be useless at recognising these guys though. They're usually very good-looking, tall, charming men and I get completely blind-sided by the false romance of everything they say and end up in this position, crying on a friday night, far too often. I go out to clubs and bars that people would think of as fairly pretentious too. I love getting all dolled up and wouldn't be into the pub scene, but I'm meeting total ar*eholes in these places.

How can I feel more empowered and in control, and better able to recognise these messers who don't even want a hint of a relationship? And what kind of place could I go to that would strike a happy medium between old-man pub and poser nightclubs? (I've no time to join clubs/take up hobbies with my work schedule, so that's not an option.) I just want my interactions with men to be more equal. I know the common denominator here is me, so there has to be something I can change.

LegacyUser

Hi OP. Sorry to hear about the bad luck you've been having. Some guys are a**holes plain and simple. I'm a guy myself and would never ever go to any of those pretentious bars. But thats besides the point really. From the sounds of it guys are using you for sex and then hitting the road. Maybe don't sleep with them so soon? Wait until they really fall for you. If they don't wait then they're not worthy of you. I know having to wait would never put me off a girl. Remember though and this is really important you're a wonderful person and it's nothing that you are doing it's they're issue! You'll find a real man who's not afraid of commitment. Good Luck :-)

LegacyUser

What happened to you was horrible and wasn't your fault. Those two 'men' are assh*les and don't deserve any more thought. There are men believe it or not who will treat you well in that they'll take the time to get to know you. They won't mess you around. You can spot these good men very easily because they don't have self esteem issues, and their actions will always, always match their words.


Some men are very adept at showering women with compliments. But most of the time, it's shallow. They're just using crap lines they've seen in a rom com to get their bit. A good man will give compliments that actually mean something to you personally. The way I look at it, if someone is showering me with compliments when I've only just met them, I know they're talking bull and have a hidden agenda that they don't want me to know about. Either that, or they don't know how to talk to me and are using compliments because they think it's the right thing to do (although in fairness this type of man is far more attractive than a man who's using compliments to get his bit).

With any man I meet though, I don't take their word on anything until I've met up with them at least three times. For me it takes that long to see if their actions match their words. After those three times (or more, depends), I still take it slowly and am still on the lookout for anomalies in the way they carry themselves and how they treat people around them. A good rule of thumb is if there's a big difference between how a man treats you, and how he treats the other people around him, you can be sure he's putting on a front and will not treat you well in the long run

Your belief in yourself is far too valuable to allow it to be trampled upon by some idiot who doesn't know how to treat people

Good luck in finding someone who'll treat you the way you'd like to be treated : ) (it can be fun too, honest!)

Well I think you realise that your problem lies in where you go out. Pretentious nightclubs attract vapid, shallow a*seholes (male and female). Clubs in general are just meat markets, everyone judging you on your appearance, everyone dolled up to impress other people, I just don't understand the attraction myself. Clubs are grand for a dance and a snog, but I just wouldn't bother trying to meet anyone for a long term relationship there. You are probably right about guys being in it for the 'chase', that happens to lots of attractive girls. Some men seem to forget that pretty girls are human beings with feelings too!

I know you said you're too busy for hobbies and things, but there are loads of opportunities to meet people day to day. I've got chatting to people in the supermarket queue, in the tax office, the dentist waiting room and they asked me out. I ended up meeting some of them as friends later (I have a boyfriend) but I'm sure if I'd been single, it would have been a good opportunity. Those day to day situations take out the whole 'meat market' aspect. Also, I don't know where you live but there are loads of places between old man pubs and poncy nightclubs. I go to pubs all the time. Perhaps ask work colleagues or friends where the young people go?

G-Money

It sounds to me like you're going to the wrong bars and clubs. I'm sure there's no rule but I get the impression that a lot of the crowd in these pretentious places are up their own arses so I'm really not surprised they'd treat you badly. I'm also wondering if you are only looking to a certain type of guy and as a result, you are limiting the number of decent guys you could possibly meet. You've said they all seem to be very good looking, tall, charming and if you meet them in pretentious bars, I hate to say it, but that doesn't strike me as a good mix.

But that's just my opinion.

Try going to some normal run of the mill places. I hate those pretentious bars and I wouldn't go near them. I'm sure there's normal people in the poser bars but I'd say they'd heavily outnumbered by the shallow, self important people who are there "just to be seen".

Good luck OP and I hope things turn around for the better soon.

LegacyUser

Bad dose for you OP.
One thing you could do is stop going to pretentious bars. I reckon you'll probably find a lot of guys going there with money or status or whatever, and whether people like to hear it or not, a lot of women, but not all thankfully, go for guys with money and status. So maybe the guys you are meeting at these bars just want to pick up a nice looking woman, and get her in bed.

At least you now know what you don't want in a guy. Why do you go to these pretentious bars in the first place? Is it to pick up a certain type of guy, or is it that you feel you have to be "seen" in these types of places?

What would you talk about with these guys when you meet them out as a matter of interest? The second guy would make anyone feel bitter. I had something similar recently, I trusted someone, thought it was going well, then just got the flick, and I'm more bitter about that fact that I let my guard down, but hopefully I'll get over it and get on with it. (I'm a guy btw)
The thought of going out on the pull makes me want to vomit if I'm honest. I'm sure the pub isn't where to meet someone. But maybe it is for you? Maybe, go to different pubs just to see. Just have the craic and see what happens. Maybe try online for a few months and see how it goes?
I would imagine if you are in a modelling agency, you're not short of guys queuing up to try and chat you up every week, so just filter out who you don't want to talk to, and filter in who you do.

Does a guy have to be dressed in a certain way before you will notice him? Say, for arguments sake, he has to have a fancy salmon shirt on, trousers and smart shoes, but he could be an absolute pr**k. So, why not look outside the box, and look at guys who may dress a bit different (but well) a bit alternative maybe. They could be equally as good looking and charming as the guys you meet in the pretentious bars, but they don't go to pretentious bars because they are not pretentious. The fact you are aware that the bars you are going to are pretentious is also a start. They may be pretentious to you or me, but maybe not to others. Each to their own...

I have heard people say that whatever way you feel about yourself now, that's the type of person you attract. I'm so suspicious these days, I don't what way that would be for me, but maybe it's food for thought for you...
I hope it works out for you.

LegacyUser

ftwftw wrote: »

At least you now know what you don't want in a guy. Why do you go to these pretentious bars in the first place? Is it to pick up a certain type of guy, or is it that you feel you have to be "seen" in these types of places?

What would you talk about with these guys when you meet them out as a matter of interest?

Does a guy have to be dressed in a certain way before you will notice him? Say, for arguments sake, he has to have a fancy salmon shirt on, trousers and smart shoes, but he could be an absolute pr**k. So, why not look outside the box, and look at guys who may dress a bit different (but well) a bit alternative maybe. They could be equally as good looking and charming as the guys you meet in the pretentious bars, but they don't go to pretentious bars because they are not pretentious. The fact you are aware that the bars you are going to are pretentious is also a start. They may be pretentious to you or me, but maybe not to others. Each to their own...

OP here. Thanks so much for the really good responses so far... I guess that the kind of place I go to doesn't do me any favours.. They are full of guys looking for hot girls to shag and plenty of the girls are more than happy to have their drinks bought for them all night, go home with the guy, and do it all again the next weekend. I know this cos I know the girls that do it and we discuss it! I guess that I go cos it's what I'm used to. It was a novelty at the start and seemed really glam and I made friends that would just be "going out" friends. I get in free to most places (though I buy my own drinks) and it's like a "better the devil you know" situation..

I've been trying really hard to get away from this scene though and hang out with people from work or that I knew from college, so thats a start! Guys don't have to be dressed a certain way, but to be honest, I just wouldn't be attracted to a guy unless he was smartly dressed (but even just in a nice pair of jeans). I think that it's more who I attract; I always wear six-inch heels, very dressy clothes, immaculate make-up, that kinda thing. I've been trying to head out in my jeans more often actually cos I thought that might attract more down-to-earth guys.

In terms of the guys, I HAVE been attracting, we'd talk about myself a lot....like they'd ask a million questions about me and what I do.. I can be quite vulnerable and probably open up way too much with even a hint of a connection and I'm starting to see that this is how they're getting under my skin in the first place, pretending to be uber-understanding... I must sound like an awful, gullible eejit!

I do feel particularly bad about the second guy. He actually just ignored me altogether last night when I texted him.. I'm not going to contact him again.. I can take a hint.. But it seriously stings right now...

gavney1

Sorry to hear your story OP. Sounds like you've had some bad luck, but I think the worst thing you could do is bury your head in the sand. Most guys aren't that shallow (and idiotic!)

Tbh, I genuinely don't think that there's a higher percentage of assholes in "pretentious" bars than anywhere else. Like, which places are you talking about?
Howl at the moon? Krystle?

I know Howl at the moon would (or used to) be considered pretensious. But I go there with friends (one of my favourite places in town) most of whom wouldn't fall into the category you've described above - some would however.

Just, personally, I don't think you're necessarily going to find a place where the "perfect guy" will be found. If there was - wouldn't all your friends be talking about it?

Again, sorry to hear about your bad experiences. But don't get discouraged as you may end up getting overly defensive and pushing away a guy whose actually perfect for you! Best of luck

LegacyUser

OP, I wouldn't go changing the way I dress just to try and attract a different type of guy. You are who you are so wear what you want, not what you think a certain type of guy might like.
I suppose my example of a guy in a shirt and trousers wasn't good, as there are sound guys and dicks who dress the same, smart or casual. I would agree, a sharp dressed man always goes down well.
I was with someone recently who did what you did in their 20s, went to all the in places with rich guys, and they paid for everything. That person even put up with physical and emotional abuse for a VERY high standard lifestyle. Now that person, to me, needs some kind of help as they have no self esteem or confidence, even though they, like you, are very good looking and very successful in their career.
From my point of view, I wouldn't have gone to pretentious bars as I would dress casually enough, but smart, but those kind of places wouldn't be my scene. In a way I did myself out of meeting some nice people, just because I had this opinion of "They are dressed like that, therefore they are probably utter w*nkers", whereas it's not the case, you get sound people in all walks of life.
You cold hit whelans, could well be some musicians in there who are worth an absolute fortune, but in jeans and tshirts!
I suppose gravitate towards a place where you will be comfortable...
The irony of me giving advice on this forum, is not lost on me, as I have posted lots of times here looking for similar advice....

G-Money

I haven't been to Howl at the Moon for a while but even before it was done up, it never came across as pretentious to me. But maybe I was just drunk and didn't notice OP, I don't know if you are in Dublin, but you'd almost never see me in bars on Dawson Street for example. I know Krystle has the reputation of being full of oompa loompa wannabe WAG's so I don't ever go there. I wouldn't really fit into that kind of place but often I just feel like going to annoy the others and have them look down their noses at me in disgust

I get the impression from your replies that perhaps you tend to go for the guys who have a tendency to mess you around. It comes across that you are attracting the wrong type. Based on what you said about the going out friends you had, who are the girls who are just there to be seen, to get free drinks and go home with some rich guy. If those are the types of guys you are attracting or spending time with, I'm not really surprised they are treating you bad. A lot of girls can go out done up to the 9's, short skirt, high heels etc and rightly or wrongly, to me it sort of creates the impression they're after some rich, flashy guy. Or after a one night stand.

I've seen girls out in bars and nite clubs and obviously they've made an effort to dress up, but they've not went overboard and they've been really attractive. So perhaps you are attracting the wrong type of guy with how you are dressing up, and that combined with the places you go out, maybe isn't giving you the best chance of meeting someone decent.

I think you are onto the right thing about toning stuff down a bit with how you dress etc. It's a well used term, but sometimes less is more. To be honest, when I see a girl out on a night out wearing short skirts and stuff I sometimes think to myself "she's hot" but I'd never think of her a gf material. She would maybe fall into the "girl you bring home for the night" rather than the "girl you bring home for good". That might not be a popular opinion but I'd say the majority of guys think that. While I personally might find a girl like that hot and sexy, I probably wouldn't want to be her bf.

One girl I recently met on a night out I was very attracted to and she'd obviously made an effort to dress up, but she was dressed very reservedly and didn't appear to be wearing a lot of makeup. I thought she was very attractive.

But that's just my own opinion. If you want a girl just for the night or a ride, I think most guys tend to go for the one's all in heels, short skirts etc. If you're after a gf, you'd maybe go for a girl who's a tiny bit more reserved.

Anyway, hope things take a turn for the better OP. I think you are right to forget about that 2nd fella. More fool him I say.

Good luck.

Miss Fluff

Sounds to me like the OP is talking about Residence which is always full of complete nouveau tossers. Start going to real pubs in your jeans with your real friends OP, chances are you'll meet a much nicer type of guy.

Guys will find you more approchable too if you get dolled up in semi-casual wear as opposed to dress and high heels which (and you sound like a stunner) a lot of guys might find intimidating.

You've just had a bad run of luck with blokes, don't let them effect your confidence or self-esteem. Take the lesson from what's happened that you are not going to meet a decent guy in the types of places you're going to.

LegacyUser

Just to clarify, when I say I get really dressed up, I don't mean tiny skirts and boobs out. I wear what I would consider to be very classy clothes. I don't have 3-inch long fake nails, and am not orange with a tan, or have three feet of hair extensions!! I do put a LOT of effort into my looks though, and would wear really nice dresses and spend as much money as I can on nice shoes, bags, getting my hair done, cos it makes me happy! I certainly don't look even vaguely slutty and never have. I'm trying to dress down just cos I think that I look maybe too into myself or intimidating really. And that nice guys might think I'm up myself and too unapproachable cos I don't look relaxed, or like I'd freak out if I messed up my hair...

Krystle is one of the places I'd go...Then the Ice Bar in the Four Seasons, the Dylan, Residence, launch parties for various things... But as I said, I've been trying VERY hard to move away from that scene.. I also don't want to be classed with the girls who are after rich guys or guys with status. I'm well able to make my own money... I would like to meet somebody educated and with ambition but only because that would make him more compatible with me.

LegacyUser

grandmaster wrote: »

I'm not really surprised they are treating you bad. A lot of girls can go out done up to the 9's, short skirt, high heels etc and rightly or wrongly, to me it sort of creates the impression they're after some rich, flashy guy. Or after a one night stand.

I've seen girls out in bars and nite clubs and obviously they've made an effort to dress up, but they've not went overboard and they've been really attractive. So perhaps you are attracting the wrong type of guy with how you are dressing up, and that combined with the places you go out, maybe isn't giving you the best chance of meeting someone decent.

I think you are onto the right thing about toning stuff down a bit with how you dress etc. It's a well used term, but sometimes less is more. To be honest, when I see a girl out on a night out wearing short skirts and stuff I sometimes think to myself "she's hot" but I'd never think of her a gf material. She would maybe fall into the "girl you bring home for the night" rather than the "girl you bring home for good". That might not be a popular opinion but I'd say the majority of guys think that. While I personally might find a girl like that hot and sexy, I probably wouldn't want to be her bf.

One girl I recently met on a night out I was very attracted to and she'd obviously made an effort to dress up, but she was dressed very reservedly and didn't appear to be wearing a lot of makeup. I thought she was very attractive.

But that's just my own opinion. If you want a girl just for the night or a ride, I think most guys tend to go for the one's all in heels, short skirts etc. If you're after a gf, you'd maybe go for a girl who's a tiny bit more reserved.

Anyway, hope things take a turn for the better OP. I think you are right to forget about that 2nd fella. More fool him I say.

Good luck.

OP you don't have to change one thing. Not where you go or how you look.

Feeling more empowered and in control is easy. The guy is coming up to you, so you have all the power. That's a fact if you don't feel that way it's all in your head.

There are lots of guy out there who are only after a shag and will go after the hot woman. there also guys like above who might be nice, but are afraid to approach hot girls.

You need to find the mix you want, good looking,charming and nice. it takes a bit of time and effort. But this is an issue for all men and woman, finding a good partner. Just keep trying, you have the power and control, you decide to date the guys or not.

LegacyUser

Op do you go up and chat to men you like the look of or do they come to you? With genuinely good looking women, the vast majority of men that approach you will be exactly the types you have experienced. What age are you btw? I think its much harder for women to find an all rounder, ie looks, personality etc than it is for women.

LegacyUser

Unreg1 wrote: »

Op do you go up and chat to men you like the look of or do they come to you? With genuinely good looking women, the vast majority of men that approach you will be exactly the types you have experienced. What age are you btw? I think its much harder for women to find an all rounder, ie looks, personality etc than it is for women.

Men come up to me really. I'm actually quite shy with men and would have to REALLY psych myself up to talk to a guy first, unless we were in a group of mutual friends. Once we start talking, I'd be grand but I do find it very difficult to do the approaching. I'm 26 by the way. I do want an all-rounder but he doesn't need to be like a male model! Just somebody I'm attracted to!

Miss Fluff, you seem to really understand where I'm coming from which is really nice and reassuring!! Thank you!

miec

I'm wracking my brains trying to figure out what I could have said or done

Hi Op

This comment you made really stuck out for me. Has it ever occurred to you that you did absolutely nothing wrong, that the problem lies with the two men that used you?

If you were armed with the knowledge that they were going to use you sexually you would not have slept with them, they were the ones who deceived you. So I would start from that point, it was not your fault. If both of you had agreed to have sex for fun then fair enough but this wasn't the case.

However, I can understand your larger dilemma, how do you avoid this from happening in the future (I was in your shoes once, and it bloody hurts when you are used in this manner). First off I would not change your dress or look, it sounds to me that you enjoy looking good for yourself so keep that up. It shows you care for yourself but I wonder do you apply that same care internally?

You said in one of your posts that you open up very early and tell the man a lot about yourself. Maybe if you can hold back until he has properly earned your trust then you could open up piece by piece. I think this may be key to the problems you are facing. Incidentally you come across as a smart, relatively self aware woman who is honest, so any man who meets with you will benefit from those qualities you have.

Get to really like yourself, I mean internally like yourself, ask yourself how can you meet someone but at the same time protect yourself. I sometimes think of myself as fragile goods that needs careful handling so if someone is not being careful with me I let them know. One other poster said about judging someone by their actions, I think that is good advice. Some people talk the good talk and it is very seductive, especially when you want to be affirmed by another person, some people mean it, some use it get something from you. You have to learn the difference between the two. Also in my experience when you like yourself internally and treat yourself as valuable, you attract other people who value you. Good luck Op and please stop blaming yourself for their cruel actions.

LegacyUser

OP the chances of you finding a loving relationship in a nightclub are slim to none. And with the places that your going...you may as well not bother. I'm not sure what it is you expect when you go out to clubs like these. Good looking dressed up Women in clubs are going to attract guys just looking for a casual fling.

You seem to me like a decent girl whos got caught up in the whole socialite thing....I used to dabble in that a bit myself....frequenting some of those clubs....but you must realise if you do that that it is a terribly shallow scene....full of silly girls trying to be someone and find rich high status guys, as well as mostly arrogant pricks working their way through these girls. Of course theres the exceptions, but theres an awful lot of these people. You could spend years of your life in that scene, chasing something that just doesn't exist. Its an awful lifestyle in my opinion and while its good fun in small doses, if you allowed it to take over your life, its disastrous.

Be wary that when your out and about guys coming up to you are likely after one thing. As another poster has suggested, why dont you try approaching some guys yourself? Or alternatively, and this would be my advice, just enjoy yourself when your out, and ignore the men. Leave finding a guy to better environments than nightclubs, such as clubs or groups or even work. Or try going to more down to earth pubs or places like that.

Good Luck

G-Money

dfgdfgdfgd wrote: »

there also guys like above who might be nice, but are afraid to approach hot girls.

In fairness, I never approach any girls, even on the rare occasions when they want me to. I don't discriminate in that respect

LightningBolt

Hey op, ditch the socialite scene if you want to feel more empowered. Honestly, the type of guy that frequents those places ain't going to let you feel in control because they don't care about what they say or do once they get with you. Sad but true, there's obviously a minority of decent guys in these places but chances are they're with somebody.

You come across as reasonably intelligent judging by how you articulated yourself, keep up going out with college friends and the likes and you''ll find yourself coming across more decent guys. They still might not meet your expectations but chances are if you find one you like he's less likely to mess you around.

If you're looking for slightly less pretentious places try hitting up 4 Dame Lane, South William, Howl at the Moon etc. Still get a lot of pretentious people but there's a lot more decent folk there.

LegacyUser

LightningBolt wrote: »

Hey op, ditch the socialite scene if you want to feel more empowered. Honestly, the type of guy that frequents those places ain't going to let you feel in control because they don't care about what they say or do once they get with you. Sad but true, there's obviously a minority of decent guys in these places but chances are they're with somebody.

You come across as reasonably intelligent judging by how you articulated yourself, keep up going out with college friends and the likes and you''ll find yourself coming across more decent guys. They still might not meet your expectations but chances are if you find one you like he's less likely to mess you around.

If you're looking for slightly less pretentious places try hitting up 4 Dame Lane, South William, Howl at the Moon etc. Still get a lot of pretentious people but there's a lot more decent folk there.

Ah...I'm more than "reasonably intelligent"...got six hundred points in the Leaving! Though I realise my choice of social scene hardly reflects that.. I really, really don't have very high expectations in terms of looks/job etc...just in terms of how I should be treated.

The guys in these places that ARE with someone are, I've found, more than willing to cheat. I know that's a generalisation but in all the couples I know going to them, all the guys have made passes at either one of my friends or I, via text or facebook message or whatever..even stupider given that it's written down and so they could be easily found out...but that's off topic.

Thanks a million for all the responses. This is my fourth weekend in a row NOT going to any of those scene-y places so I am trying to be pro-active about this.

Next big thing is to stop obsessing about the second guy. I'd rather be on my own than feel like this yet again. Could not be LESS worth it..

LegacyUser

Maybe if you weren't so full of yourself guys might have more time for you. "I'm MORE than reasonably intelligent, I got 600 points in the Leaving" Kinda hilarious but seriously have you any idea how pathetic that sounds as a response to a compliment paid to you by another poster? The very fact that you even consider bloody Leaving Cert points as a barometer of intelligence says a lot.

In fairness, you're then banging on about hanging out in The Four Seasons and Krystle and shagging guys after two days. If you're so intelligent why are you hangin around two of the most pretentious places in the country and expecting to find a deep meaningful relationship? Not only that but you go on about placing enormous effort into your looks and forking out for expensive clothes and hairdos, trying to look good. And then having the audacity to state a guy has to be well dressed before you'll even give him a second glance. How shallow is that? AND he has to be "educated and ambitious to be compatible with me" Compatible with YOU -what about you being compatible with them??? A relationship isn't going to be all about you OP so maybe if you dropped the me, me, me you might have more success attracting decent men.

To summarise, you hang out in pretentious places dolled up to the nines while bangin on about Leaving Cert points. And then you wonder why you only attract shallow men. Why wouldnt you when you're that shallow yourself? Like attracts like OP.

Also, quite telling that your engrained criteria for a man involve him being well-dressed and 'educated'. What does that even mean? Wearing Ralph and an old 'Rock boy? No mention of him wanting him to be kind or loyal or hard-working? No, just the outer trappings of success for his Social CV. I'm not sure any decent guy would want to buy into that kind ppf crap tbh.

LegacyUser

Unregistered wrote: »

Maybe if you weren't so full of yourself guys might have more time for you. "I'm MORE than reasonably intelligent, I got 600 points in the Leaving" Kinda hilarious but seriously have you any idea how pathetic that sounds as a response to a compliment paid to you by another poster? The very fact that you even consider bloody Leaving Cert points as a barometer of intelligence says a lot.

In fairness, you're then banging on about hanging out in The Four Seasons and Krystle and shagging guys after two days. If you're so intelligent why are you hangin around two of the most pretentious places in the country and expecting to find a deep meaningful relationship? Not only that but you go on about placing enormous effort into your looks and forking out for expensive clothes and hairdos, trying to look good. And then having the audacity to state a guy has to be well dressed before you'll even give him a second glance. How shallow is that? AND he has to be "educated and ambitious to be compatible with me" Compatible with YOU -what about you being compatible with them??? A relationship isn't going to be all about you OP so maybe if you dropped the me, me, me you might have more success attracting decent men.

To summarise, you hang out in pretentious places dolled up to the nines while bangin on about Leaving Cert points. And then you wonder why you only attract shallow men. Why wouldnt you when you're that shallow yourself? Like attracts like OP.

Also, quite telling that your engrained criteria for a man involve him being well-dressed and 'educated'. What does that even mean? Wearing Ralph and an old 'Rock boy? No mention of him wanting him to be kind or loyal or hard-working? No, just the outer trappings of success for his Social CV. I'm not sure any decent guy would want to buy into that kind ppf crap tbh.

First off, calling me "reasonably intelligent" sounded patronising to me. It did NOT seem like any kind of a compliment. I'm hardly handing out CV's to strangers on nights out. This is an anonymous forum. I'm sorry if that sounded big-headed to you. That's your perogative to judge me that way. Fair enough.

When did I EVER say I was shagging guys after two days?? I'm talking about after six weeks and two months here, and several dates. I'm confused as to where you picked that up.

Why shouldn't I want a guy to be educated and ambitious? Should I be delighted to meet some guy who sits round a dingy apartment all day watching daytime tv? You can be educated and ambitious while still in college, making no money, living at home. You've still got plans for the future. It's still attractive. And myself and other posters here have been discussing initial attraction here, so yeah I DO want a guy who looks well-kempt and hygenic. He doesn't have to have spent a fortune on clothes; just look presentable. It's a fairly basic ask.

I'm not a shallow person, and I'm not full of myself. Quite the opposite. I spent a long, long time beating myself up about various shortcomings of mine and feeling bad about myself. I've worked hard on myself as a person, inwardly and outwardly and have worked hard through college and my job, and am not going to run myself down and make excuses for myself in an anonymous forum.

LegacyUser

Unregistered wrote: »

No mention of him wanting him to be kind or loyal or hard-working?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that you think of yourself as kind/loyal/hardworking. Unfortunately it means nothing at all when you are full of the kind of bitterness that permeated the rest of your post.

The girl has every right to look for a man who's presentable. Who wants to be with someone who's self esteem is so low that they can't be bothered to look presentable? She also has every right to make a big deal out of her leaving cert, she got fantastic results which no doubt took a lot of hard work on her part.

Begrudgery is a horrible trait that we Irish almost pride ourselves on, anyone who's successful must be up their own a*se. According to begrudgers, success has absolutely nothing to do with sheer graft and determination.

Mar dhea!

seenitall

Hi OP,

for what it's worth, I don't get the impression that you are full of yourself at all. Just that you know your own worth and what you want in life, which are all good things, and will keep you in good stead.

As for your problem, I agree with most other posters who advised that to change your luck with guys, maybe you should try changing the places you go to (which you are working on already) and also, I know you like to look your best, which is as it should be, but my advice would be (again the same as another poster's) to try and give an overall relaxed, easy-going impression when on a night out. I find it a bit difficult to put into words, but my experience as a woman is, that the more glossy and "done up" I look (which isn't often! - I don't put much make up on for example) the more I tend to attract assorted sleaze-balls who would, I am supposing, see me as an air head or an easy lay, since they seem to equate effort put into appearance with effort to please men (as far as I can make out), which again maybe equates to them as a lack of confidence in yourself, therefore an easy lay again. Now, this is just my theory, and maybe I am wrong, but I did notice what I said.

Also, as yet another poster said, beautiful women have a particular problem of beeing seen as challenging to approach for a run-of-the-mill ordinary nice guy. These guys will think: "Whoa, she's gorgeous. Way out of my league. Probably high-maintenance too." I know it is not fair but everyone makes assumptions of one kind or another in their daily lives. Anyway, maybe try to make it less challenging for genuine guys by dressing in a more relaxed manner and being a bit more playful with your body language when around the guys who look like they may not be d--ks. Just to let them know that you are not unapproachable or unavailable.

The best of luck to you!

LegacyUser

Op fair play to you, you have standards, do not settle! What you are looking for shouldnt be the exception, but the rule. Im a guy and I cringe, cringe when I see the smarmy type going up to women blatantly looking for only one thing! I dont know where their false sense of security or arrogance arises, unless its through their supposed wealth or status which they inherited. Also by the nature of these guys I would guess their traits are, only out for themselves, selfish, untrustworthy, they are hardly relationship material. I respect their right not to want a relationship. You see these guys are having their cake and eating it, with the other women who are effectively prostitutes, so its unlikely they will change their behaviour anytime soon! Its like a Wag etc getting with the likes of Terry or Ashley Cole and then being shocked when they find out the have or are being double timed!

gavney1

seenitall wrote: »

o, I know you like to look your best, which is as it should be, but my advice would be (again the same as another poster's) to try and give an overall relaxed, easy-going impression when on a night out. I find it a bit difficult to put into words, but my experience as a woman is, that the more glossy and "done up" I look (which isn't often! - I don't put much make up on for example) the more I tend to attract assorted sleaze-balls who would, I am supposing, see me as an air head or an easy lay, since they seem to equate effort put into appearance with effort to please men (as far as I can make out), which again maybe equates to them as a lack of confidence in yourself, therefore an easy lay again. Now, this is just my theory, and maybe I am wrong, but I did notice what I said.

Well, this may be true for most guys, not sure. But just personally from my own guy's perspective if I see a girl dressed very casually on a night out, I often think "she's not really making a big effort, so she's probably got a boyfriend".

gavney1

seenitall wrote: »

Also, as yet another poster said, beautiful women have a particular problem of beeing seen as challenging to approach for a run-of-the-mill ordinary nice guy. These guys will think: "Whoa, she's gorgeous. Way out of my league. Probably high-maintenance too." I know it is not fair but everyone makes assumptions of one kind or another in their daily lives. Anyway, maybe try to make it less challenging for genuine guys by dressing in a more relaxed manner and being a bit more playful with your body language when around the guys who look like they may not be d--ks. Just to let them know that you are not unapproachable or unavailable.

I think body language and behaviour will affect who approaches you alot more than how you dress

OP, if you're constantly surrounded by your girlfriends when you're out, you probably will get very few guys approaching you, unless they're really confident player-types (i.e. the nice guys will be scared off).

Most guys find it much easier to approach a pair of girls rather than a big group.

Also, nice girls won't approach a girl who has her arms folded. This may or may not be something you do.

Sorry if this is a little off topic, but really I think that the way you dress and the bars you go to are alot less important in terms of who you attract than body language, approachability and friendliness (and I'm not implying that you are unfriendly, I don't know, I'm just saying what I think is important)

gavney1

unregisted wrote: »

I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that you think of yourself as kind/loyal/hardworking. Unfortunately it means nothing at all when you are full of the kind of bitterness that permeated the rest of your post.

The girl has every right to look for a man who's presentable. Who wants to be with someone who's self esteem is so low that they can't be bothered to look presentable? She also has every right to make a big deal out of her leaving cert, she got fantastic results which no doubt took a lot of hard work on her part.

Begrudgery is a horrible trait that we Irish almost pride ourselves on, anyone who's successful must be up their own a*se. According to begrudgers, success has absolutely nothing to do with sheer graft and determination.

Mar dhea!

very well put!

seenitall

gavney1 wrote: »

Well, this may be true for most guys, not sure. But just personally from my own guy's perspective if I see a girl dressed very casually on a night out, I often think "she's not really making a big effort, so she's probably got a boyfriend".

LOL, well I didn't mean she should go out in her trackie bottoms or whatever, but there IS a balance to be struck between being dressed up to the nines and being somewhat more casually, but still smartly dressed.

(BTW, I have nothing against being dressed up to the nines, I just don't think it is working to someone's advantage too well in this type of situation.)

gavney1

Well, there are extremes of course!

Like, I wasn't referring to trackies. But on a night out in town in a nightclub, I think most girls wear dresses/skirts. If I see a girl wearing jeans, I tend to think she's not really making an effort - not saying there's anything wrong with it, but it affects my thinking.

Again, maybe that's just me

At the opposite extreme, a girl wearing a skirt that doesn't fully cover her bum looks kinda desperate

KnocKnocKnock

Yeah I agree as well that how you hold yourself is more important than how you dress. If a girl is wearing a dress and heels and is laughing, relaxed and just seems to be having the craic then she'll look more approachable then the girls in jeans and flats who's not smiling with folded arms who keeps pulling at her clothes/adusting her hair etc..

OP I've seen in a couple of your posts that you're wondering about how you come across to others, or maybe others think this. Maybe this self consciousness comes across in your behaviour. It's not always easy to do but try to not think about how you are coming across, just relax and go with what feels comfortable to you. You're never going to win them all, whatever way you act will most likely be perceived differently by different people so trying to fit yourself into what you should be to others will just drive you crazy

seenitall

Well, gavney, if you want to get into the nitty gritty of it , I'll tell you I feel both comfortable AND smart in my funky pair of jeans on a night out. I am just careful to pair them with a really nice top and some edgy accessories, and I can tackle anything! Sometimes I will wear a great edgy number ("dress" in girl-speak) and also feel fantastic and really no different than if I am wearing those jeans... and as you said yourself, the body language is what counts most in these situations, so would not the way my clothes make ME feel have an influence on how approachable or not I am perceived?

LegacyUser

gavney1 wrote: »

Well, there are extremes of course!

Like, I wasn't referring to trackies. But on a night out in town in a nightclub, I think most girls wear dresses/skirts. If I see a girl wearing jeans, I tend to think she's not really making an effort - not saying there's anything wrong with it, but it affects my thinking.

Again, maybe that's just me

At the opposite extreme, a girl wearing a skirt that doesn't fully cover her bum looks kinda desperate

Thanks so much for all the replies guys.. (and the support!)...

Well, I can't imagine myself ever rocking up to a bar in a pair of trackies! There's a way you can wear jeans that's still dressy and looks like you're making an effort, like with a stylish top, heels, a blazer...(though come to think of it, I DID meet the second guy when I was in my jeans...maybe I'm just a lost cause!!! )

I agree that hanging out with a big group of girls isn't the best idea. If you go out with just one girl though, it can look really like you're "on the pull". I've a good few male friends that I could start going on nights out with... It's probably better to have a good male/female mix to be approachable.

I really wouldn't think my body language would be off-putting for anyone. The problem has never been not having men approaching me, just it seems to be the wrong eejits all the time. I've found too that when I speak to men who'd be different from the type I normally go for, I get odd responses. I don't drink a lot on nights out (3 glasses of wine max, as I'm petite and just can't drink more than this without feeling ill) so I'd be quite in tune and observant of how men react to me.

Say I'm in the smoking area, having a random chat as you do with an average, nice guy. I'd think "oh, he seems really decent and sweet" and be all friendly and smiley. A good few times , I've gotten comments from them or their mates along the lines of "Oh,I bet you think you're f**king gorgeous", or "are you going back inside to your rugby star boyfriend". I feel as though they ASSUME I'm going to be a complete bitch, just as another poster did on here too, for maybe some of the same reasons.

It's a different topic,and one I've seen tackled here before, where some men see a good-looking, classy girl and can't wait to make uncomplimentary assumptions about her. I guess it's borne from previous experience, but it gets very tired and frustrating.

gavney1

lostandconfused wrote: »

T
Say I'm in the smoking area, having a random chat as you do with an average, nice guy. I'd think "oh, he seems really decent and sweet" and be all friendly and smiley. A good few times , I've gotten comments from them or their mates along the lines of "Oh,I bet you think you're f**king gorgeous", or "are you going back inside to your rugby star boyfriend". I feel as though they ASSUME I'm going to be a complete bitch, just as another poster did on here too, for maybe some of the same reasons.

Well, tbh those guys sound like even bigger saps than the two guys you refer to in your original post. You don't seem to be having much luck!

Don't be disheartened though. All it takes is to find one guy and you'll have forgotten about all these others!

And again, the jeans thing - probably is just me who thinks like that. Main thing is that you're happy wearing what you wear - don't let a couple of bad experiences with a couple of knobs let you change that.

LegacyUser

lostandconfused wrote: »

A good few times , I've gotten comments from them or their mates along the lines of "Oh,I bet you think you're f**king gorgeous", or "are you going back inside to your rugby star boyfriend". I feel as though they ASSUME I'm going to be a complete bitch, just as another poster did on here too, for maybe some of the same reasons.

Ha ha talk about shooting themselves in the foot! People like that are so deluded they'll convince themselves that they're entitled to speak to you like that! They're just projecting their own insecurities onto you.

Next time reply with 'Going by that comment, I'm willing to bet that you think you're beneath me'. Put their insecurity back on them where it belongs, and be on your merry way : )

lostandconfused

lostandconfused wrote: »

Say I'm in the smoking area, having a random chat as you do with an average, nice guy. I'd think "oh, he seems really decent and sweet" and be all friendly and smiley. A good few times , I've gotten comments from them or their mates along the lines of "Oh,I bet you think you're f**king gorgeous", or "are you going back inside to your rugby star boyfriend". I feel as though they ASSUME I'm going to be a complete bitch, just as another poster did on here too, for maybe some of the same reasons.

I get that sometimes too. It always throws me because it's so mean, and so unjustified. I don't think I'm particularly stunning and I don't make an effort to dress up much. Some men seem to think that any girl who's at all attractive has to be a huge b*tch or really shallow. It's just projection on their part because they're bitter and can't get a woman, so they act like you think you're too good for them. A hell of a lot of men in pubs/clubs also ask my boyfriend what I'm doing with him and that he's punching above his weight, which I think is really horrible. Just because they've resigned themselves to scraping the bottom of the barrel because they have no confidence, they think everyone should. Beware of bitter gobsh*tes with a chip on their shoulder, they are everywhere, especially in Ireland.

LegacyUser

Unregistered wrote: »

In fairness, you're then banging on about hanging out in The Four Seasons and Krystle and shagging guys after two days. If you're so intelligent why are you hangin around two of the most pretentious places in the country and expecting to find a deep meaningful relationship? Not only that but you go on about placing enormous effort into your looks and forking out for expensive clothes and hairdos, trying to look good.

To summarise, you hang out in pretentious places dolled up to the nines while bangin on about Leaving Cert points. And then you wonder why you only attract shallow men. Why wouldnt you when you're that shallow yourself? Like attracts like OP.

I wouldn't agree with all of this post at all, but some small parts of it I would. If you do realise you have been going to pretentious places, then you can't blame anyone but yourself for the blokes you are meeting out of these places. The fact you aren't going there anymore, fair play. You'll meet guys just as successful/well dressed etc (whatever you are in to). in other places. There is nothing wrong either with wanting to meet a guy who is ambitious, well dressed and educated. Who wouldn't want that?
nothing wrong with dollying yourself up either if that's what you like. However, I would agree that guys see a type of woman and assume something else about them. I am guilty of it myself, and I was with someone before who, if I saw the way they dressed (very expensive taste), I would have thought "full of herself, a right stuck up b**tch". I am very casually dressed most of the time, but do make the effort when needed. She was into me (for a bit anyways ), and was/is a very nice person, and I felt bad that I assumed she was this or that on just her appearance. So I would never judge someone on their appearance ever again. Think of all I missed out on down the years!!