So the creative accounting has been disallowed

Liam Byrne

News in that the bailout is now to be viewed as part of the deficit.

Do people reckon that - apart from being a pretty ridiculous case of cooking the books in the first place - that this was always on the cards, and was just a temporary measure to allow FF to pretend that we'd "get away" with it ?

ART6

According the the paper I read this morning the EU would not allow the €4 billion bailout for Anglo Irish to be classed as an investment, keeping it off the government's balance sheet, because the shares it purchased were classed as valueless. The end result, apparently, is to push Ireland's debt burden to the highest in the EU and more than one percent greater than that of Greece. That has got to be an achievement by anyone's reckoning surely.

Any business whose shares are valueless would normally be considered to be dead in the water. It would be placed into receivership and its assets sold off. Time to bite the bullet perhaps.

danman

Is it just the Anglo bail out, or have the AIB and BoI bailouts been classified as expenditure as well?

Mr.Applepie

danman wrote: »

Is it just the Anglo bail out, or have the AIB and BoI bailouts been classified as expenditure as well?

No, they were considered investments. Anglo should have been wound up a over a year ago

dan_d

I believe it's just the Anglo bailout...and not all of it, would that be right??
I think the EU are keeping a closer eye on things here than people think. And I think FF are either well aware of this, and hiding the info from us, or possibly are just too plain stupid to realise that.
As far as I'm concerned it's welcome. It's for all the wrong reasons of course, but our banks need to realise they cannot continue riding roughshod over everyone and everything. They have to keep to certain regulations. If this is what it takes, then the EU can go right ahead and scrutinise all they want. With any luck my future kids may live in a slightly poorer, but better regulated country.

ART6

dan_d wrote: »

I believe it's just the Anglo bailout...and not all of it, would that be right??
.

According the what I read the €4 billion "invested" in Anglo puts our debt burden about 1.5% higher than that of Greece, but Anglo will need another €18 billion. If €4 billions equals 1.5%, where will the €18 billions take us I wonder? Is that the IMF I see coming over the horizon?

PeakOutput

isnt it nama that is being kept of the balance sheets but the recapitalisation isnt? or has that changed?

Nate--IRL--

I think that's what they were hoping to do, hoping nobody would call the bluff. Edit:- Sorry, misread your comment. They were trying to keep it all off the books, the EU had other ideas.

When is the next time we have to go to the bond market? Are we covered for this year?

IT article :- Anglo cash ruling could double State deficit to €40bn

Nate

jmayo

Where is frank fahey now with his spoofing about how all of this would make us money ?
Where are all the boards would be economists who were telling us all NAMA/recapitalisation/bailout sceptics that this would cost us nothing, would not add to the national debt, etc ?
Oh wait we will get it back in bank levies :rolleyes:

Just like everything to do with the bank guarantee, recapitalisation, NAMA it proves to be yet another crock of sh** dropped on both the current and future taxpayers of this country.

PeakOutput

jmayo wrote: »

Where is frank fahey now with his spoofing about how all of this would make us money ?
Where are all the boards would be economists who were telling us all NAMA/recapitalisation/bailout sceptics that this would cost us nothing, would not add to the national debt, etc ?
Oh wait we will get it back in bank levies :rolleyes:

Just like everything to do with the bank guarantee, recapitalisation, NAMA it proves to be yet another crock of sh** dropped on both the current and future taxpayers of this country.

it dosnt actually change anything though its just on paper its gong to be listed over there instead of over here everything else remains the same, although i guess our credit rating might be affected if our debt is higher but it dosnt change the operation of nama or anything like that

ART6

jmayo wrote: »

Where is frank fahey now with his spoofing about how all of this would make us money ?
Where are all the boards would be economists who were telling us all NAMA/recapitalisation/bailout sceptics that this would cost us nothing, would not add to the national debt, etc ?
Oh wait we will get it back in bank levies :rolleyes:

Just like everything to do with the bank guarantee, recapitalisation, NAMA it proves to be yet another crock of sh** dropped on both the current and future taxpayers of this country.

Yes, and now we're being told by Mr. Lenihan & Co that the Anglo investment that suddenly became a debt and put us in a worse position than Greece will only exist for this year as it won't show in next year's balance sheet. I would think that there's a lot of people and companies in this little country at the moment who would dream that they could achieve that. It really is a load of b******s. If you owe someone a tenner it doesn't matter a fuck where you record it - you will still owe the tenner next year if you don't repay it. What seems to have happened here is the Brians thought they were being real smart cookies until much smarter cookies in the EU caught them out.

However, we should be optimistic. There is a golden paradise awaiting us for the following reasons:

• The Nice Treaty "will create jobs" (OK, for new entry nations, but....)

• The Lisbon Treaty "Will create jobs and bring investment into Ireland" (Or Poland, for which we will pay)

• "Nama will make money for the taxpayer" (at about the time when the sun goes supernova)

• "We had to bail out Anglo or the Irish banks would have lost credibility internationally" (What credibility? They have no international reputation left).

• "The cost of letting Anglo fail would have been much greater than the cost of rescuing it" (Anglo is dead in the water. What we are actually doing is using your money to bail out the investors and bond holders. If we had let it fail then we would have a MORAL obligation to protect those investors and bond holders to protect our financial reputation).(Who is this bloody "we" What financial reputation? We flushed that down the loo with Nama)

• "Being in the Erozone has saved our skins" (No it hasn't. It has prevented us from controlling our own finances, and given the mess that we have made of them even within those restrictions maybe that at least is something to be grateful for).
• "We will be back to 3% debt as a percentage of GNP by 2014" (Possibly another Finance Ministry typo - should read 2114)

I don't know if any of my figures here are anywhere near correct, and like (I suspect) a lot of desperate people, I don't really care. All I know is that my country has been devastated by stupidity,corruption, incompetence and schoolboy wheeling and dealing between political parties, none of whom have clue what they are doing.

I look forward to the secure heaven they are going to give us in.........

*Oh... I might be bloody dead by then*

*Apologies. End of troll. It's Irish Whiskey's fault*

strathspey

Saying Irish and bluffer in the same sentance seems quite apt!

peasant

Do any of you actually believe that the Irish governement had any hand in this (other than signing on the dotted line)?

IMO the whole Irish economy is currently run by the EU or at least on the say-so of the EU.

Lenny didn't just talk to David McWilliams what to do about the banking guarantee ...he asked the people with the money as well and they told him exactly what to do.

The creative accountancy we see here is not the doing of the clever witted Paddy doing the EU in the eye (or trying to) ...it's the EU trying to deceive the financial markets about the stability of the Eurozone.

The actual dimensions of the Irish basket case could not be admitted to initially or the whole Euro would have collapsed ...so they are doing it piecemeal, after the facts (bailouts, NAMA, etc) have been put in place and as the recession shows signs of easing somewhat elsewhere.

Expect further upgrading of the Irish debt in the future.

PeakOutput

peasant wrote: »

Do any of you actually believe that the Irish governement had any hand in this (other than signing on the dotted line)?

IMO the whole Irish economy is currently run by the EU or at least on the say-so of the EU.

Lenny didn't just talk to David McWilliams what to do about the banking guarantee ...he asked the people with the money as well and they told him exactly what to do.

The creative accountancy we see here is not the doing of the clever witted Paddy doing the EU in the eye (or trying to) ...it's the EU trying to deceive the financial markets about the stability of the Eurozone.

The actual dimensions of the Irish basket case could not be admitted to initially or the whole Euro would have collapsed ...so they are doing it piecemeal, after the facts (bailouts, NAMA, etc) have been put in place and as the recession shows signs of easing somewhat elsewhere.

Expect further upgrading of the Irish debt in the future.

i have heard from very reliable sources the lenihan was simply not answering the phone to the eu(as in literally putting phone on silent) the week nama was being announced, make of that what you will

strathspey

PeakOutput wrote: »

i have heard from very reliable sources the lenihan was simply not answering the phone to the eu(as in literally putting phone on silent) the week nama was being announced, make of that what you will

Would a piss-willy country like Ireland even get hotline calls from Brussels. Sometimes, I think the Irish regard themselves as being quite significant within the context of the EU when everything points to the contrary!

PeakOutput

strathspey wrote: »

Would a piss-willy country like Ireland even get hotline calls from Brussels.

yes