Looking to upgrade.. need some advice

Saxobank

Hi all,

I currently have a Giant Defy 4 since august 09 and have been working hard on building up the miles, i am joining a club in the next couple of weeks and i have been told by numerous people that i will find it hard to keep up with groups on the Defy 4, also i am having lower back pain on the Defy mainly due to the frame size, i am a S frame but i have a M frame...

Over the passed couple of weeks i have been looking to upgrade the bike to a carbon frame, my price range would be between 1500-2000, I was initially looking at the Pinerello FP2 but lowered my price range since..

I am basically looking for recommendations on a bike within that price range and no better place to ask than here.

Thanks,
Jay:)

gaffmaster

Off Topic - As a matter of interest... How tall are you?
I also own a Defy 4. I think I lie on the borderline between S and M. I have the S frame however.

Saxobank

gaffmaster wrote: »

Off Topic - As a matter of interest... How tall are you?
I also own a Defy 4. I think I lie on the borderline between S and M. I have the S frame however.

I am 5ft 8 gaffmaster!

lescol

I doubt that you'll find a dramatic increase in speed by changing to a carbon bike although it will be a great help to have the right size.

There's loads of choice:- Kuota Kharma, Boardman Team and Pro Carbon, Planet X (only one set of bosses for a bottle cage though on the small) and others fall into your price range, have you any preference as yet?

You'll lose the third chainring, is this important to you? You may prefer a compact chainset 50/34.

Saxobank

lescol wrote: »

I doubt that you'll find a dramatic increase in speed by changing to a carbon bike although it will be a great help to have the right size.

There's loads of choice:- Kuota Kharma, Boardman Team and Pro Carbon, Planet X (only one set of bosses for a bottle cage though on the small) and others fall into your price range, have you any preference as yet?

You'll lose the third chainring, is this important to you? You may prefer a compact chainset 50/34.

Thanks for the reply lescol.. i dont have any preferences yet, i have been to a few bike shops but more or less what i am seeing there is treks, giants, specialized not much else on view there.. Would you rate Dolan's or S-works as good bikes?

I dont minf about the chainring at all

gaffmaster

Saxobank wrote: »

I am 5ft 8 gaffmaster!

Ah yes. I have deduced that I have the correct size frame - for I am fractionally smaller than thou.

I like my Giant, but I cant help wonder what more expensive bikes feel like to ride.
Eventhough there are two bottle cage bosses on the S frame, the sloping top tube renders the one on the seat tube fairly useless.

Russman

Never having been in a cycling club, I'm probably not best placed to comment , but here goes anyway....

Maybe I'm naive but I would have though its the engine rather than the bike that may hold anyone back. I'm sure there's a difference between bike performance as you upgrade (especially between alu and carbon frames) but I can't imagine the differences being of the order that you make it difficult to keep up.

Upgrade by all means, but I would caution not to expect miracles.

Having said that I'll bow to the greater knowledge of the more experienced posters if necessary !

Saxobank

gaffmaster wrote: »

Ah yes. I have deduced that I have the correct size frame - for I am fractionally smaller than thou.

I like my Giant, but I cant help wonder what more expensive bikes feel like to ride.
Eventhough there are two bottle cage bosses on the S frame, the sloping top tube renders the one on the seat tube fairly useless.

Yea i wish i had went with a small frame...
Iv come across a Ridley Icarus SLS 1006A selling for 1399, although not carbon frame looks impressive as seen here.

http://www.cyclesuperstore.ie/shop/pc/catalog/medium/R10IcarusSLSXXS.jpg

Chips Lovell

Saxobank wrote: »

i am joining a club in the next couple of weeks and i have been told by numerous people that i will find it hard to keep up with groups on the Defy 4, also i am having lower back pain on the Defy mainly due to the frame size, i am a S frame but i have a M frame...

Whoever told you that you can't join a club with that bike is talking through their arse. You'll see plenty of people racing on similar frames.

Having said that, if the bike is the wrong size for you, then yes it's worth switching the frame.

Saxobank

el tonto wrote: »

Whoever told you that you can't join a club with that bike is talking through their arse. You'll see plenty of people racing on similar frames.

Having said that, if the bike is the wrong size for you, then yes it's worth switching the frame.

Thanks el tonto i was told by workers in a bike shop that the bike would be no help in terms of clubs.. i suppose im worried about the kind of bike i get as it is alot of money at the end of the day and i better get it right next time round..

blorg

As everyone has said, utter utter nonsense that you could not do club group rides or indeed race on a Defy 4. It is the rider not the bike and plenty are racing on similar.

As to the bike sizing, Giant's general sizing advice for the SCR of which the Defy is the replacement was:

Small: 5ft 2 – 5ft 6, 530mm top tube
Medium: 5ft 6 – 5ft 11, 550mm top tube

Two things here. At 5ft 8 you are solidly in the Medium range. Giants have very compact frames that can support a wide variety of riders with adjustments to stem length/angle and seatpost layback.

To be honest if you are 5ft 8 it is very difficult to see you fitting anything other than a Medium in Giant. A small would give you a bigger drop to the bars and it is hard to see how it would make things any better.

You may just need to get used to the road bike position.

Secondly, As you can see there is only 20mm in the top tube, which could be easy enough to take off the seatpost and stem if you really felt you needed to shrink it... but my general feeling here is that you just have to get used to it. Probably the best way to get used to it is to make the position more relaxed (raise the bars) and then make small adjustments as you get more flexible. I had awful back problems with my first road bike, to the extent I went back to flat bars for a few years, and I am not sure it was fundamentally the wrong size frame.

tunney

Saxobank wrote: »

Thanks el tonto i was told by workers in a bike shop that the bike would be no help in terms of clubs.. i suppose im worried about the kind of bike i get as it is alot of money at the end of the day and i better get it right next time round..

My advice would be to avoid the bike shop that gave you that advice.
Also I'd avoid the bike shop that sold you the frame that is the wrong size too.

Why do you think the frame is too small for you?

Also who fitted you on the frame. Perhaps a different stem length or sdasle height could help

coolbeans

Saxobank wrote: »

Thanks for the reply lescol.. i dont have any preferences yet, i have been to a few bike shops but more or less what i am seeing there is treks, giants, specialized not much else on view there.. Would you rate Dolan's or S-works as good bikes?

I dont minf about the chainring at all

Hey Saxo, I have a Dolan Hercules SE. It's a great bike, supremely comfortable and fast as well as being a little different. Would recommend. The sizing is weird though due to the compact curved frames. You'll need to do your homework on this. And yes I agree with everyone else regarding what was said about the Defy and club rides. That is utter bollox based I suspect on someone else's need to sell you a pricey ride. It's the man not the bike and the Defy is a great base bike.

Saxobank

blorg wrote: »

As everyone has said, utter utter nonsense that you could not do club group rides or indeed race on a Defy 4. It is the rider not the bike and plenty are racing on similar.

As to the bike sizing, Giant's general sizing advice for the SCR of which the Defy is the replacement was:

Small: 5ft 2 – 5ft 6, 530mm top tube
Medium: 5ft 6 – 5ft 11, 550mm top tube

Two things here. At 5ft 8 you are solidly in the Medium range. Giants have very compact frames that can support a wide variety of riders with adjustments to stem length/angle and seatpost layback.

To be honest if you are 5ft 8 it is very difficult to see you fitting anything other than a Medium in Giant. A small would give you a bigger drop to the bars and it is hard to see how it would make things any better.

You may just need to get used to the road bike position.

Secondly, As you can see there is only 20mm in the top tube, which could be easy enough to take off the seatpost and stem if you really felt you needed to shrink it... but my general feeling here is that you just have to get used to it. Probably the best way to get used to it is to make the position more relaxed (raise the bars) and then make small adjustments as you get more flexible. I had awful back problems with my first road bike, to the extent I went back to flat bars for a few years, and I am not sure it was fundamentally the wrong size frame.

Thanks for that blorg! ill make some adjustments on the bike and take it for a spin tomorrow, however if its getting used to the road bike its been happening every spin that i get back pain.. when i went to another bike shop i was put on a small frame giant defy 3 i think (canary yellow bike) to compare and was told that there should be some distance between the bar and your *crown jewels which doesnt happen on the M frame

@Tunney, i wasnt fitted on the frame basically the bike was put beside me and the seat measured to my hip and that was it.. it was my 1st road bike and didnt know any better!

SurferDude41

Hi All,
The specalized tarmac, and Roubaix, are excellent bikes. Carbon frames can be quite fragile however. Budget on replacing a carbon frame, every few years. If you crash it, most cannot be repaired.
Did you give any thought to a Titanium frame? The new Litespeed Xicon frame set, is rather fantastic. It's about €1500. And It can be repaired for a few hundred euro, if you damage it in a crash.

For a recrational cyclist, high end carbon bikes just don't make a good long term investment.

I have never met a cyclist, riding a ten year old carbon bike. However I know lots of people riding old steel and titanium bikes.

Well, thats my tupence worth anyway, hope it helps

Happy cycling:)

SurferDude41

Hi All,
The specalized tarmac, and Roubaix, are excellent bikes. Carbon frames can be quite fragile however. Budget on replacing a carbon frame, every few years. If you crash it, most cannot be repaired.
Did you give any thought to a Titanium frame? The new Litespeed Xicon frame set, is rather fantastic. It's about €1500. And It can be repaired for a few hundred euro, if you damage it in a crash.

For a recrational cyclist, high end carbon bikes just don't make a good long term investment.

I have never met a cyclist, riding a ten year old carbon bike. However I know lots of people riding old steel and titanium bikes.

Well, thats my tupence worth anyway, hope it helps

Happy cycling:)

Lumen

SurferDude41 wrote: »

I have never met a cyclist, riding a ten year old carbon bike.

I think Quigs Snr will be there in a few months.

Looks pretty damn good to me....

petethedrummer

Russman wrote: »

Maybe I'm naive but I would have though its the engine rather than the bike that may hold anyone back. I'm sure there's a difference between bike performance as you upgrade (especially between alu and carbon frames) but I can't imagine the differences being of the order that you make it difficult to keep up.

At the open race in the phoenix park last summer there was a foreign lad on a Giant SCR in one of the higher categories keeping up no problem. He also had mudguards, a saddle bag and a pump. So its not the bike holding you back.

Of course the ride will be smoother on a carbon bike. Which may reduce fatigue on longer rides.

SurferDude41

SurferDude41 wrote: »

Hi All,
The specalized tarmac, and Roubaix, are excellent bikes. Carbon frames can be quite fragile however. Budget on replacing a carbon frame, every few years. If you crash it, most cannot be repaired.
Did you give any thought to a Titanium frame? The new Litespeed Xicon frame set, is rather fantastic. It's about €1500. And It can be repaired for a few hundred euro, if you damage it in a crash.

For a recrational cyclist, high end carbon bikes just don't make a good long term investment.

I have never met a cyclist, riding a ten year old carbon bike. However I know lots of people riding old steel and titanium bikes.

Well, thats my tupence worth anyway, hope it helps

Happy cycling:)

I don't think carbon fibre bikes have been affordable to the average cyclist for long enough for there to be many 10+ year old carbon bikes around, although I once met a guy riding an original Trek OCLV (?) that was around that age and it was in perfect nick. I've busted more alu frames (2) than I have carbon (0, touch wood). I think the frailty of carbon is vastly overstated by many retrogrouches.

DirkVoodoo

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think carbon fibre bikes have been affordable to the average cyclist for long enough for there to be many 10+ year old carbon bikes around, although I once met a guy riding an original Trek OCLV (?) that was around that age and it was in perfect nick. I've busted more alu frames (2) than I have carbon (0, touch wood). I think the frailty of carbon is vastly overstated by many retrogrouches.

I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head there.

100Suns

If your on the border between sizes go with the smaller size-you can always change the stem and saddle position but not the top tube length. The most important relationship for efficiency is between your hips and the pedals. The most important for comfort is from the saddle to the bars so if you've been having trouble with comfort in the neck or back go for the smaller frame. You can get a longer stem and reverse it if you need to higher the bars. If any shop tries to fit you by measuring your height or the height of your hip beside the bike or even checking if you can see the front axle over the bars slowly slide back up on your Defy, ignore the pain and the ignimony of riding an oversized alu bike, and blow the doors off on the way out.

Thought about a cannondale CAAD, synapse or six. Great alu and carbon frames, very comfortable and compliant, and well priced. A cervelo with ultegra set up might also be within your range. Good luck with it.