Economics TSM at Trinity

mstu

I want to study economics TSM.

I know that in your final year you can choose to major in economics or to split it between your other choice.

I would plan to major in economics. How does this effect your degree title?

Also what is the difference between BESS and TSM? Personally I think that doing a TSM would be more interesting. I know that you have to take economics with another subject, ie. geography, sociology, a language, and of course maths (but I wouldn't be up for doing hard core maths)

Thanks

Time Magazine

mstu wrote: »

I would plan to major in economics. How does this effect your degree title?

Any combination within BESS, with the exception of single-honours business, ends up as a Bachelor of Arts in Economic and Social Studies. Single-honours business comes out as a Bachelor of Business Studies.

Also what is the difference between BESS and TSM?

In BESS, you initially take business, economics, political science and sociology. You then pick either one or two to specialise in. In TSM, Economics + x, you study economics and x pretty much all the way through. BESS gives you more choice, TSM gives you a bit more specialisation. It's up to you. People change their minds (I was very close to picking Business + Political Science, ended up single-honours Economics) and BESS is perfect for that. On the other hand, TSM Economics & Maths are better trained as economists than the typical BESS student, because they've done more rigorous maths and stats and less sociological waffle.

Personally I think that doing a TSM would be more interesting. I know that you have to take economics with another subject, ie. geography, sociology, a language, and of course maths (but I wouldn't be up for doing hard core maths)

If you intend on doing single-honour Economics, then you better get used to hardcore maths. If you want the option to try and steer clear of the more quantitative stuff but still study economics, then I'd recommend BESS.

Groinshot

Time Magazine wrote: »

If you intend on doing single-honour Economics, then you better get used to hardcore maths./QUOTE]

Im sorry, but I cant see economics having hard-core maths in it..... Would love to be proven wrong though

new fang

I honestly don't know why anyone'd want to do economics, after a year of it (as part of PolSci, of all things) I'm thankful I'll never have to think of it again.

andrew

Groinshot wrote: »

Im sorry, but I cant see economics having hard-core maths in it..... Would love to be proven wrong though

:rolleyes: Oh there is a shit load of maths in economics. Equations everywhere. Statistics galore.

Time Magazine

Groinshot wrote: »

Time Magazine wrote: »

If you intend on doing single-honour Economics, then you better get used to hardcore maths.

Im sorry, but I cant see economics having hard-core maths in it..... Would love to be proven wrong though

No problem.

Microeconomics
Recent paper by a TCD microeconomist on NAMA
Recent paper by a UCD microeconomist on patents
Some auction theory
How we make friends
Some dude's PhD thesis on trade

Macroeconomics
The shape of production functions
Predicting UK stock prices
I don't even know.

Econometrics
A fairly standard method of statistical analysis - GMM (Hansen will win a Nobel Prize someday)
Using the variance of a time-series to predict its path (kinda) (Engle has won the Nobel Prize)
Policy evaluation (Heckman won the Nobel Prize)

mstu

Time Magazine wrote: »

Any combination within BESS, with the exception of single-honours business, ends up as a Bachelor of Arts in Economic and Social Studies. Single-honours business comes out as a Bachelor of Business Studies.

In BESS, you initially take business, economics, political science and sociology. You then pick either one or two to specialise in. In TSM, Economics + x, you study economics and x pretty much all the way through. BESS gives you more choice, TSM gives you a bit more specialisation. It's up to you. People change their minds (I was very close to picking Business + Political Science, ended up single-honours Economics) and BESS is perfect for that. On the other hand, TSM Economics & Maths are better trained as economists than the typical BESS student, because they've done more rigorous maths and stats and less sociological waffle.


If you intend on doing single-honour Economics, then you better get used to hardcore maths. If you want the option to try and steer clear of the more quantitative stuff but still study economics, then I'd recommend BESS.

That's great information. So what if I did a TSM in sociology, not maths

Time Magazine

mstu wrote: »

That's great information. So what if I did a TSM in sociology, not maths

I'd suggest BESS over Economics & Sociology any day of the week. People change their minds and BESS provides far more room for that. Economics and Sociology, imho, is a bit of a crap CAO choice: it's basically BESS, but without flexibility.

Awayindahils

mstu wrote: »

That's great information. So what if I did a TSM in sociology, not maths

The points for BESS are always higher. If you get BESS but find that you love sociology (cant imagine why but) you can swap into the TSM programme in third year. TSM Economics and Sociology is commiserations, you didnt get BESS and sees people trying to swap into BESS...which is usually impossible due to business places and CAO points difference.

Sir Ophiuchus

mstu wrote: »

I would plan to major in economics. How does this effect your degree title?

Presuming you do TSM, either way your degree is a B.A. (Hons.) in Economics & Whatever. Or Whatever & Economics, the order makes no difference.

mstu

Awayindahils wrote: »

The points for BESS are always higher. If you get BESS but find that you love sociology (cant imagine why but) you can swap into the TSM programme in third year. TSM Economics and Sociology is commiserations, you didnt get BESS and sees people trying to swap into BESS...which is usually impossible due to business places and CAO points difference.

lol I have to disagree. So you're saying that if someone does a BESS degree instead of a Economics and Maths degree they got higher points? I somehow doubt that tbh

I actually heard the exact opposite from a lecturer at trinity. He said that if you want to study Economics you may as well do it with a TSM as it's more specialized, as long as it's related to economics (not something like English), where as with BESS you're just learning other boring stuff (his words, not mine) but I can see the advantage of doing BESS for variety if you're not sure

Surely Economics and x (sorry sociology was a bad example as you can to that in BESS), is more academically rigorous than say sociology and/or political science and/or business. Surely

Time Magazine wrote: »

I'd suggest BESS over Economics & Sociology any day of the week. People change their minds and BESS provides far more room for that. Economics and Sociology, imho, is a bit of a crap CAO choice: it's basically BESS, but without flexibility.

Sociology was a bad example...if it's already in BESS then it's obviously not a wise decision to study it. But what about the other TSM subjects. tbh economics is the only one that interests me, so why do Sociology, political science and business? (Business isn't even a recognised A level for getting into top UK unis)

I want to do Economics with x (traditional subject that's not maths )

new fang

Economics is a walk in the park compared with political science. The latter will knock you on your ass.

mstu

mmm I can imagine PS would be immensely boring.

Time Magazine

new fang wrote: »

Economics is a walk in the park compared with political science. The latter will knock you on your ass.

To be fair, and I don't mean to be dismissive, but you're a second year undergrad so you couldn't really know what you're talking about. I guarantee that the number of people who wuss out of economics and take political science (when it comes to PhD topics, jobs etc) is far greater than those who wuss out of pol-sci and jump to economics. The technical rigour needed to get a job as an economist is far greater than the rigour needed to be a political scientist.

mstu wrote: »

lol I have to disagree. So you're saying that if someone does a BESS degree instead of a Economics and Maths degree they got higher points? I somehow doubt that tbh

I don't think she's saying that at all. I think she's saying that the points for Economics + Sociology are lower than the points for BESS.

I actually heard the exact opposite from a lecturer at trinity. He said that if you want to study Economics you may as well do it with a TSM as it's more specialized, as long as it's related to economics (not something like English), where as with BESS you're just learning other boring stuff (his words, not mine) but I can see the advantage of doing BESS for variety if you're not sure

I think I've already said that in terms of the best preparation as an economist is (Economics + Maths), then BESS, then (Economics + anything else). That includes "related" subjects like History or Geography. Economics is a mathematical subject so taking sums as your other subject in TSM is very useful. BESS allows you to become (essentially) single-honours economics from second-year on and thus allows more specialisation than, say, Economics and History.

Surely Economics and x (sorry sociology was a bad example as you can to that in BESS), is more academically rigorous than say sociology and/or political science and/or business. Surely

Economics and Political Science (i.e. one stream of BESS) is almost identical to Economics and History (i.e. one TSM). The advantage of BESS is that (if you want) you can specialise immediately and do more economics than the TSMers.

Sociology was a bad example...if it's already in BESS then it's obviously not a wise decision to study it. But what about the other TSM subjects. tbh economics is the only one that interests me, so why do Sociology, political science and business?

In case you change your mind; and if you don't it allows to take more economics courses than TSM.

(Business isn't even a recognised A level for getting into top UK unis)

A-Levels are absolutely irrelevant here. We're talking about a top Irish university at undergraduate level, and I know a guy who walked into a top UK university's Economics M.Sc. on the back of his Business and Economics degree.

I want to do Economics with x (traditional subject that's not maths )

Then by all means do it . Just don't falsely assure yourself that it will give you as much choice as BESS, or as much specialisation if you really want it.

Awayindahils

mstu wrote: »

lol I have to disagree. So you're saying that if someone does a BESS degree instead of a Economics and Maths degree they got higher points? I somehow doubt that tbh

Firstly its not about the points individuals got, its about the avergae points, and yes avergae points for TSM courses like History, English and French are high, but the points are generally lower for Economics, and Maths goes from mid 400s to mid 500s depending on the year.

And it was specifically in responce to TSM Economics Sociology. If you are good enough at Maths and interested enough to do 3 or 4 years of it, then that TSM programme is a great option and gives you a great basis for future study. I personally believe if TSM Economics Sociology is your first choice, you are doing yourself a diservice by not applying for BESS. The first year programmes are quite similar, and the additional economics components are of limited value. Social economic history or whatever it is they add on as the 3rd module for sociology is apparently very dull.

Groinshot

Time Magazine wrote: »

No problem.

Microeconomics
Recent paper by a TCD microeconomist on NAMA
Recent paper by a UCD microeconomist on patents
Some auction theory
How we make friends
Some dude's PhD thesis on trade

Macroeconomics
The shape of production functions
Predicting UK stock prices
I don't even know.

Econometrics
A fairly standard method of statistical analysis - GMM (Hansen will win a Nobel Prize someday)
Using the variance of a time-series to predict its path (kinda) (Engle has won the Nobel Prize)
Policy evaluation (Heckman won the Nobel Prize)

Show me an undergrad who can understand any of that.....

Hes talking about doing an undergrad degree, not a thesis or paper.

And besides, (only looked at the first part of one of them)
first order differential equations arent exactly what I would consider hardcore maths.....

Time Magazine

Groinshot wrote: »

Show me an undergrad who can understand any of that.....

They're typically Maths and Economics TSM students. Kind of proves my point about it being useful, huh?

Hes talking about doing an undergrad degree, not a thesis or paper.

And I'm talking about economics, which is mathematical.

And besides, (only looked at the first part of one of them)
first order differential equations arent exactly what I would consider hardcore maths.....

You might want to look at more than "the first part of one of them" before you comment.

Groinshot

Time Magazine wrote: »

They're typically Maths and Economics TSM students. Kind of proves my point about it being useful, huh?

This guy isnt going to be a maths and economics student, so is it relevant to his thread?

And I'm talking about economics, which is mathematical.

again, your not talking about what OP is talking about. Its like

Point is OP is a leaving cert student(im assuming?) and soon to be a 1st year economics student we think, so I understand statistics comes into economics at 1st year level, but Not to that level. Again, hes going to be an UNDERGRAD, not Graduate level.....

You might want to look at more than "the first part of one of them" before you comment.

I have other things to do, I will when I have more "Time" (haha see what I did there?)

Awayindahils

Groinshot wrote: »

This guy isnt going to be a maths and economics student, so is it relevant to his thread?

Im just finished BESS. I specialised in Political Science and I understand most of the Econometircs. Social sciences is full of statistics. Third and fourth year Economics, will demand some fairly intense maths and stats work, if done through TSM. As a BESS student its possible to avoid some of it, but if you really want to do Economics, you shouldnt avoid the maths.

dabh

Groinshot wrote: »

And besides, (only looked at the first part of one of them) first order differential equations arent exactly what I would consider hardcore maths.....

Those are no ordinary differential equations. (Pun intended.) They aren't even partial differential equations. They are stochastic differential equations. They are differential equations satisfied by random variables (martingales, semi-martingales, etc.) on a probability space. To understand the mathematical foundations you need a thorough course in measure theory. The texbook Probability with Martingales by David Williams would get you started, but you would need to move on to postgraduate texts on stochastic calculus, Brownian motions, Wiener processes, and suchlike. In particular results such as the Product Rule and the Chain Rule do not apply in the form in which you meet them at school: you need to use instead a result known as Ito's Lemma...

Time Magazine

Groinshot wrote: »

This guy isnt going to be a maths and economics student, so is it relevant to his thread?

It's not a dichotomous outcome, it's a spectrum. The best Economics students, almost by your own assertion, are the most mathematically talented ones. That's not a coincidence. Similarly if he wants to be a single-honours econ boy, he should not avoid hardcore maths.

It's not a very hard concept to grasp.

again, your not talking about what OP is talking about. Its like

I know people use "like" a lot these days, but that's really pushing it.

Point is OP is a leaving cert student(im assuming?) and soon to be a 1st year economics student we think, so I understand statistics comes into economics at 1st year level, but Not to that level. Again, hes going to be an UNDERGRAD, not Graduate level.....

People's college choice set path dependencies that stretch for a lot longer than their undergraduate days.

I have other things to do, I will when I have more "Time" (haha see what I did there?)

Yes; you initially asked for evidence that economics uses hardcore maths, then claimed you have other things to do when presented with the evidence.

In other words, you're wasting my time. Fair enough, g'luck.

Awayindahils wrote: »

but if you really want to do Economics, you shouldnt avoid the maths.

Time Magazine

dabh wrote: »

Those are no ordinary differential equations.

Lol, well done.

dan719

Time Magazine wrote: »

Lol, well done.

Deleted by moi.

Sir Ophiuchus

I wrote a long post, but it can be summarised thusly:

Could everyone please stop the toolery and treat one another with more respect? This thread is rapidly becoming a mess.

Edit: Reading Time's latest post, dan719, I think he might have been laughing at your joke, not condescending to you. But it is open to multiple interpretations.

andrew

Sir Ophiuchus wrote: »

I wrote a long post, but it can be summarised thusly:

Could everyone please stop the toolery and treat one another with more respect? This thread is rapidly becoming a mess.

That could apply to so many threads on this forum.

It also seems to me that Time was laughing at the joke rather than being condescending. I think it was some sort of pun.

dan719

Sir Ophiuchus wrote: »

I wrote a long post, but it can be summarised thusly:

Could everyone please stop the toolery and treat one another with more respect? This thread is rapidly becoming a mess.

Edit: Reading Time's latest post, dan719, I think he might have been laughing at your joke, not condescending to you. But it is open to multiple interpretations.

If I misinterpreted the post I apologise. I wasn't claiming that I had been condescended to. I'm tired, stressed and tired. Sorry again. I''m going to delete that now.

dabh

For the record, I interpreted last night's comment adverted to as lol with the previous post, not at the previous post.