Cuba, propaganda and the truth

peasant

Interesting article here about Cuba's efforts to help their neighbour Haiti being totally ignored by the "free" press:

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_opinion?id=161637911

The article does not allow to copy quotes, but is well worth a read for some perspective.



Now, I'm not denying that Cuba is an economic basket case and that there are "issues" with its politics and human rights records ...but when they do accomplish something it's almost always totally ignored by "the west"


EDIT:
@ the usual suspects:
Please read the article before you start foaming at the mouth, thank you

Denerick

Its not so much that they are ignored by the west, but that they ignore the west. In a word, I don't care if some Cuban doctor saves a sick child from meningitis, its all well and good but it doesn't get over the absurd levels of repression in that country. No amount of PR stuntery will get over that.

conorhal

Fair play to them for helping out their friends and neighbors, but it's fair to say, just as much as Cuba was ignored, America was very unfairly vilified for doing nothing but help.
I think the whole 'ash cloud' debacle has probably given some of the rabid nutters that claimed America was dragging it's heels and botching the aid delivery a bit of perspective. After all, if a bit of dust in the atmosphere pretty much ground Europe to a halt stranding thousands of people like refugees for a week, I can't even begin to imagine the logistical nightmare that attempting to open up a completely devastated nation must have been.

peasant

Denerick wrote: »

PR stuntery

Improving the lives of 75% of Haiti's population is a PR stunt now?

Permabear

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karma_

donegalfella wrote: »

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yeah, it's left wing, must be propaganda.:rolleyes:

peasant

donegalfella wrote: »

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It's the same question when dealing with international anti-socialists ...be they from Donegal or Dallas

But what if ...just if ...those figures in the article are actually true?
Hmmm?

Not worth reporting just because they are from Cuba?


Let's face it ...despite what we believe, there is no neutral or free (in the sense of independent) media in the west either. There are lots of facts that we aren't told and lots more that we only get a skewed view of ...be they about Cuba or Iran or whoever else doen't fit our current western view of the world.

Something worth thinking about IMO

djpbarry

Ignoring for a moment the debatable state of Cuban healthcare, how can Cuba possibly afford to take on the cost of healthcare for another nation?

baalthor

peasant wrote: »

Improving the lives of 75% of Haiti's population is a PR stunt now?

What did the other 25% do on the Cubans? :-D

peasant

djpbarry wrote: »

how can Cuba possibly afford to take on the cost of healthcare for another nation?

I have no idea ...and I guess we'll never find out (because seemingly it's not worth reporting or talking about)

EDIT
Ask the Cubans(edited to clarify: The Cuban regime) and they'll tell us that they have no problems and can afford anything they like ...ask anyone else and they'll probably tell you that Cubans are starving because of this ...neither of which is true.

ei.sdraob

peasant wrote: »

EDIT
Ask the Cubans and they'll tell us that they have no problems and can afford anything they like ...ask anyone else and they'll probably tell you that Cubans are starving because of this ...neither of which is true.

If I get back there again then I will ask them, I was offered a place to stay with family's friends saving money (as compared staying in rip off hotels/compounds) and was asked to help out with food in exchange, "real" food that is, food that you can only get for hard cash and not stamps, which says alot...

you really should stop looking at Cuba with rose tinted glasses, its a harsh place to be if you are a local there.
Nice people, great climate but a rotten and oppressive regime which only benefits the people at the top

Its actually all very sad, btw there are many (ex)Cubans here in Ireland who managed to escape, if any are reading this thread maybe they should pitch in...

Once again anyone who has any wet dreams about a socialist paradise in the Atlantic should stop talking ****e and get on a plane, and get out of the "touristy" compounds, which often hide the true face of the country

Permabear

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fontanalis

ei.sdraob wrote: »

If I get back there again then I will ask them, I was offered a place to stay with family's friends saving money (as compared staying in rip off hotels/compounds) and was asked to help out with food in exchange, "real" food that is, food that you can only get for hard cash and not stamps, which says alot...

you really should stop looking at Cuba with rose tinted glasses, its a harsh place to be if you are a local there.
Nice people, great climate but a rotten and oppressive regime which only benefits the people at the top

Its actually all very sad, btw there are many (ex)Cubans here in Ireland who managed to escape, if any are reading this thread maybe they should pitch in...

Once again anyone who has any wet dreams about a socialist paradise in the Atlantic should stop talking ****e and get on a plane, and get out of the "touristy" compounds, which often hide the true face of the country

Isn't cultist a better term than socialist?

ei.sdraob

fontanalis wrote: »

Isn't cultist a better term than socialist?

the people there are not "cultist" or "socialist" but survivors
many know well the system is fatally flawed, and the experiment went wrong

the average person is just hanging on and waiting for change to come about and for certain a dictator to die
pretty much the only source of income are tourists now, which ironically has spawned a whole capitalist economy making real money

you can get your free health care and your PhD, but what good is education and health when you cant get proper food, cant travel and more importantly cant work, what's worse if you speak up your are done for

Sandvich

Denerick wrote: »

Its not so much that they are ignored by the west, but that they ignore the west. In a word, I don't care if some Cuban doctor saves a sick child from meningitis, its all well and good but it doesn't get over the absurd levels of repression in that country. No amount of PR stuntery will get over that.

If you say this, you're hardly giving them incentive to do better, are you? Countries rarely overhaul themselves completely. At least, most people weren't fond of what happened when Cuba did that the last time.

fontanalis

Should have elaborated, the regime itself is like the cult of Fidel. TV broadcasts showing that Castro is responsible for the "paradise" they live in. Also with his brother taking over it's almost like a monarchy.

ei.sdraob

fontanalis wrote: »

Should have elaborated, the regime itself is like the cult of Fidel. TV broadcasts showing that Castro is responsible for the "paradise" they live in. Also with his brother taking over it's almost like a monarchy.

oh I see

yes that's what's so sad about whole thing especially considering the people are nice, tho not many fall for the propaganda

the island is essentially a prison stuck in a time-warp while the people float along

a bizzare place, hopefully the regime runs out of steam soon

peasant

ei.sdraob wrote: »

If I get back there again then I will ask them, I was offered a place to stay with family's friends saving money (as compared staying in rip off hotels/compounds) and was asked to help out with food in exchange, "real" food that is, food that you can only get for hard cash and not stamps, which says alot...

you really should stop looking at Cuba with rose tinted glasses, its a harsh place to be if you are a local there.
Nice people, great climate but a rotten and oppressive regime which only benefits the people at the top

Its actually all very sad, btw there are many (ex)Cubans here in Ireland who managed to escape, if any are reading this thread maybe they should pitch in...

Once again anyone who has any wet dreams about a socialist paradise in the Atlantic should stop talking ****e and get on a plane, and get out of the "touristy" compounds, which often hide the true face of the country

And once again you're foaming at the mouth and missing the topic completely

I don't know which is worse actually ...reading one of Fidel's tiresome speeches or your rants. :rolleyes:

If you could calm down for a minute you'd realise that I'm not denying that Cuba is in a sad state nor am I "defending" or "praising" their regime.

All I wanted to do with this thread was to point out that we in the west are fed about just as much propaganda as Fidel spouts every day ...difference being that the average Cuban know's when (s)he's being fed bullcrap ..the average Westerner doesn't.

If our western system was so good and free and perfect as it pertains to be ...what would the harm be in actually recognising that Cuba is doing a pretty good job in Haiti? None ...that's what.

So why aren't we told about it?

What is it that stinks so much here that we cannot acknowledge something good just because it's being done by "the enemy" ?

fontanalis

ei.sdraob wrote: »

oh I see

yes that's what's so sad about whole thing especially considering the people are nice, tho not many fall for the propaganda

the island is essentially a prison stuck in a time-warp while the people float along

a bizzare place, hopefully the regime runs out of steam soon

That's why I think the US emargo is so bad, if they could get a glimpse of what the rest of the world has to offer it would be the death knell of the regime, imho.

fontanalis

peasant wrote: »

And once again you're foaming at the mouth and missing the topic completely

I don't know which is worse actually ...reading one of Fidel's tiresome speeches or your rants. :rolleyes:

If you could calm down for a minute you'd realise that I'm not denying that Cuba is in a sad state nor am I "defending" or "praising" their regime.

All I wanted to do with this thread was to point out that we in the west are fed about just as much propaganda as Fidel spouts every day ...difference being that the average Cuban know's when (s)he's being fed bullcrap ..the average Westerner doesn't.

If our western system was so good and free and perfect as it pertains to be ...what would the harm be in actually recognising that Cuba is doing a pretty good job in Haiti? None ...that's what.

So why aren't we told about it?

What is it that stinks so much here that we cannot acknowledge something good just because it's being done by "the enemy" ?

Well Haiti has popped of the news radar, and why should any one country be singled out for aid given?

peasant

fontanalis wrote: »

That's why I think the US emargo is so bad, if they could get a glimpse of what the rest of the world has to offer it would be the death knell of the regime, imho.

They know very well what the rest of the world has to offer, they are not stupid. They just need to look at the thousands of tourists that pass through the country (or failing that ...at American television in the Spanish language )

peasant

fontanalis wrote: »

Well Haiti has popped of the news radar, and why should any one country be singled out for aid given?

It's not that they should be singled out or receive a special gold star ...they should be included in the stats and not be unmentionable

ei.sdraob

peasant wrote: »

And once again you're foaming at the mouth and missing the topic completely

I don't know which is worse actually ...reading one of Fidel's tiresome speeches or your rants. :rolleyes:

If you could calm down for a minute you'd realise that I'm not denying that Cuba is in a sad state nor am I "defending" or "praising" their regime.

All I wanted to do with this thread was to point out that we in the west are fed about just as much propaganda as Fidel spouts every day ...difference being that the average Cuban know's when (s)he's being fed bullcrap ..the average Westerner doesn't.

If our western system was so good and free and perfect as it pertains to be ...what would the harm be in actually recognising that Cuba is doing a pretty good job in Haiti? None ...that's what.

So why aren't we told about it?

What is it that stinks so much here that we cannot acknowledge something good just because it's being done by "the enemy" ?

If you bothered to read my posts you would see I have nothing but praise for the people of Cuba

I have no time for the oppressive regime and their endless spin

Post again in this thread when what was promised is actually delivered and materializes, you be waiting a long time...

Fidel & Co. is good at promising honey and milk but has one **** record of delivering anything, people are still waiting there on their promises 55+ years later

Once again I invite you to take a trip yourself to the county,
I would ask the friends in Cuba to post here their view on it, but unfortunately their internet is so slow and filtered, and such an act in itself would land them in prison

djpbarry

peasant wrote: »

I have no idea ...and I guess we'll never find out (because seemingly it's not worth reporting or talking about)

Would it not be fair to say that it’s difficult to assess such things because Cuba does not divulge the necessary information?

peasant wrote: »

Ask the Cubans and they'll tell us that they have no problems and can afford anything they like...

Like a vacation abroad?

peasant wrote: »

All I wanted to do with this thread was to point out that we in the west are fed about just as much propaganda as Fidel spouts every day ...difference being that the average Cuban know's when (s)he's being fed bullcrap ..the average Westerner doesn't.

As you have just demonstrated, a ‘Westerner’ can dig up an article praising Cuba and then commence a discussion of the subject on an internet forum. Can a Cuban similarly dig up an article criticising Cuba and then commence a discussion of their own?

peasant wrote: »

If our western system was so good and free and perfect as it pertains to be ...what would the harm be in actually recognising that Cuba is doing a pretty good job in Haiti? None ...that's what.

So why aren't we told about it?

You seem to be jumping to the conclusion that the figures presented in the article you linked to are accurate? How do we know that said article is not itself propaganda?

peasant

djpbarry wrote: »

Like a vacation abroad?

I really should have been more precise in what I originally posted ...what i meant was "ask the cuban authorities" ...not the people in the street, sorry

djpbarry wrote: »

As you have just demonstrated, a ‘Westerner’ can dig up an article praising Cuba and then commence a discussion of the subject on an internet forum. Can a Cuban similarly dig up an article criticising Cuba and then commence a discussion of their own??

That's not the point. We all know that there is no freedom of the press in Cuba. The point is that despite us having said freedom, some things that don't suit just don't get reported
And btw ...Cubans are given ample opportunity to discuss articles that are critical of them ...Fidel does that every day (just that his "discussions" aren't particularly objective )

djpbarry wrote: »

You seem to be jumping to the conclusion that the figures presented in the article you linked to are accurate? How do we know that said article is not itself propaganda?

If they were inaccurate they would be debunked in a split second ...that one I'm certain of

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Once again I invite you to take a trip yourself to the county,
I would ask the friends in Cuba to post here their view on it, but unfortunately their internet is so slow and filtered, and such an act in itself would land them in prison

Going there on Monday, for the second time.

Yes, I'm going to one of those tourist ghettos ...but they do actually let you out of there without an escort and you are free to meet and talk to anyone you like. I am fully aware of what day to day life for an ordinary Cuban without access to tourist dollars looks like ...it's a pretty miserable existence.
I even have people there that I would call friends (If I had Spanish there would be more) and I'm bringing what I can to make their life a bit better, even it's just for one day

ei.sdraob

peasant wrote: »

Going there on Monday, for the second time.

Yes, I'm going to one of those tourist ghettos ...but they do actually let you out of there without an escort and you are free to meet and talk to anyone you like. I am fully aware of what day to day life for an ordinary Cuban without access to tourist dollars looks like ...it's a pretty miserable existence.
I even have people there that I would call friends (If I had Spanish there would be more) and I'm bringing what I can to make their life a bit better, even it's just for one day

Good I hope to get back within a year and stay for quite a while, only problem is getting internet access which i would need to checkup on things

peasant wrote: »

I am fully aware of what day to day life for an ordinary Cuban without access to tourist dollars looks like ...it's a pretty miserable existence.

Its not lack of money that's a problem but lack of freedom hell if the farmers where actually allowed to form small farm enterprises they could more than provide the population with good food, but no..

Anyway's the Yanks aint helping the situation with their stupid blockade either

The whole situation is downright terrible, the only glimmer of hope is that some day "change" will come


I sure hope that what was promised to Haiti gets delivered, but having seen the place and spoken to people there and here (once again alot of Cubans in Ireland) i wouldn't hold my breath for long or put too much weight to the party "press release"

peasant

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

See, I'm not thick ...I actually know that so stop trying to convince me of it.
It's not the point of the thread anyway.
Yes, we have a multitude of publications to choose from and if we read enough of them we might just be able to filter out the average from the opposite amplitudes of opinion and come to some semblance of "tuth" or "fact" ...but the crux of the matter remains, our mainstream media is by no means as free or independent as they would like us to believe.
They may not be censored by direct governement intervention ...they just don't get the ad revenue when they step out of line
At least in Cuba it's clearcut ...the regime is oppressive. Once you know that, you know what you're dealing with.
Here, it's money that rules the roost and forms the opinion of the day and identifying who is misrepresenting what is so much more difficult.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Its not lack of money that's a problem but lack of freedom hell if the farmers where actually allowed to form small farm enterprises they could more than provide the population with good food, but no..

Agreed, the socialist bureaucracy is stifling everything

ei.sdraob wrote: »

The whole situation is downright terrible, the only glimmer of hope is that some day "change" will come

The worry there would be that when change comes it will come with vehemence and the pendulum will swing a full 180 degrees, aided and abetted by the big neighbours to the north.
Then you will have half the population raking it in and the other half left to starve, ....like in Haiti

ei.sdraob

peasant wrote: »

The worry there would be that when change comes it will come with vehemence and the pendulum will swing a full 180 degrees, aided and abetted by the big neighbours to the north.
Then you will have half the population raking it in and the other half left to starve, ....like in Haiti

I dont think that would happen

They have more educated population that will be able to take advantage of any turn to the "dark side"

If the current system falls there would be a large inflow of investment money, the country and the people have alot of potential, but is being stifled now

p.s: check pm @peasant