Hurling Championship pools format

Daysha

Ok now that the league pools are (nearly) done and dusted this is a good week or two to talk about what kind of structure or format you'd like to see for the pools this year. Pretty much all the previous years have followed the same pattern, and if you want to see them you can: 2009, 2008 and 2007.

There's basically two choices here: do the predictions on a week-by-week basis just like the league pools, or stick to what's been done before and everyone predict as many matches as possible at the start of the Championship, mostly these are just the provincial games. Then when we get to the later stages and the AI series is drawn out posters make another set of predictions to see out the rest of the year. There's fors and againsts for both systems so let us know here which you'd prefer.

There's also the question of whether to include the Christy Ring and perhaps even the Nicky Rackard or Lory Meagher if you want. The lower competitions can be a bit of a lottery, but there's also the argument that just doing the Liam McCarthy can get a bit boring as there's no where near the same amount of games to predict. Again it's up to you, and if there's any other suggestions lets hear them

And just to confirm, I won't be taking charge of this for the summer. If anyone wants to put themselves forward for the job let me know in the thread or PM me if you like.

Gingy

I thought that format changes could only be made every 5 years at GAA thread congress!

Saying that, I would be in favour of using the same format as the league, it keeps an added interested from week to week rather than just making 2 predictions during the whole Summer.

aidan24326

I'd go weekly aswell. It's a better system (though it cost me my place in the national league football pools as I forgot to enter predictions in rd 2 )

It keeps up interest and it means you can make predictions at the time the game is happening and with all current info to hand (injuries, suspensions, form etc) rather than trying to guess in advance. I will try not to forget this time as in my previous attempt I finished joint first (2008 I think)

EDIT: that was in football though, not hurling. This will be my first stab at the hurling.

deisedude

I like the week to week format. Dont mind predicting the Christy Ring cup games either but anything below that level i havent a clue.

jm99

deisedude wrote: »

I like the week to week format. Dont mind predicting the Christy Ring cup games either but anything below that level i havent a clue.

+1

patmac

deisedude wrote: »

I like the week to week format. Dont mind predicting the Christy Ring cup games either but anything below that level i havent a clue.

But your excluding a lot of counties that are involved in the lower etchelons of the championship. Hurling is an elitist eenough sport as it is without boards adding to it.
What harm for you to do a bit of research in the lower leagues, also it will give you an added interest in the The Rickard/Meagher cups as you scream at the telly when Monaghan score a last minute goal to secure the championship pools title.

deisedude

patmac wrote: »

But your excluding a lot of counties that are involved in the lower etchelons of the championship. Hurling is an elitist eenough sport as it is without boards adding to it.
What harm for you to do a bit of research in the lower leagues, also it will give you an added interest in the The Rickard/Meagher cups as you scream at the telly when Monaghan score a last minute goal to secure the championship pools title.

Its hard to educate yourself on it when it gets no coverage though. I'd imagine 99% of posters would be just taking a wild stab in the dark at predicting these games. I think it takes away some of the enjoyment of doing the pools to be honest but hey thats just my opinion

patmac

deisedude wrote: »

Its hard to educate yourself on it when it gets no coverage though. I'd imagine 99% of posters would be just taking a wild stab in the dark at predicting these games. I think it takes away some of the enjoyment of doing the pools to be honest but hey thats just my opinion

The coverage is there you just have to look for it, national and local papers carry reports on the lower leagues as does the Hogan Stand, also on a week to week basis there might be just one championship match per week so the minor leagues would increase the amount of matches to predict.

blackbelt

I'm going to be taking charge of the football pools this year and already I know the system I will be using.

I will be using the once off prediction for the provincial titles as well as the preliminary estimates for the 4 qualifier spots.When the qualifiers do start,I will be reverting back to the weekly predictions until All Ireland Quarter Final time where once again it will be one straight prediction for the 7 matches that finish the championship.

jordainius

Championship consists of 4 Munster games, 7 Leinster games, 7 qualifier games, and 5 All-Ireland games (2 quarters, 2 semi's, 1 final)

In my opinion, the Ulster Championship should not be included as it has no baring on the Liam McCarthy Cup

That's 23 games. Contestants should enter by posting the following predictions;

Munster Champion and Runner-Up, Leinster Champion and Runner Up, All-Ireland Champion and Runner Up, All-Ireland semi finalists, and highest scoring player.

Because there are a relatively small amount of games, I think the points system should be altered to give a far greater reward for predicting the scoring margin rather than the winner.

For example;

• 1 point for picking the winner. **
• 6 points for predicting a draw.
• 0 points for not guessing the outcome.

**Bonus points available

• 5 bonus points for guessing the margin exactly.
• 3 bonus points for being one point off.
• 2 bonus points for being two points off.
• 1 bonus point for being 3 points off.
• 0 bonus points for not guessing within 3 of the actual margin.

Lets look at the first match, Laois v Carlow. If I predict Laois by 1, I may only score points in the event of a Laois win e.g. if it is a draw or if Carlow win by a point, it doesn't matter that I have come close with my guess regarding the margin.


Additional bonus points (only for predictions made pre-championship. Entries after May 23 not eligible for the following)

• 5 points for predicting All-Ireland champions
• 3 points for predicting All-Ireland runner Up
• 3 points for predicting All-Ireland semi finalist (each)
• 3 points for predicting Leinster champions
• 3 points for predicting Munster champions
• 2 points for predicting Leinster runners-up
• 2 points for predicting Munster runners-up
• 3 points for correctly guessing championships highest scorer.

I feel predictions on individual matches must be made in the 7 days preceding matchday, predictions will not be accepted later than midday on matchday.

I reckon that predicting as many matches as possible before the season starts is very restrictive, as anything can happen, i.e. a team could lose a very influential player to injury. Limericks players could suddenly return or Corks players could strike again. Taking predictions on a week by week basis will allow greater flexibility.

jordainius

Also, I'd like to suggest having 2 separate hurling championship pools:

1; Liam McCarthy Cup
2; Ring/Rackard/Meagher Cups


A lot of people wouldn't be up to speed (or interested ) in anything below McCarthy Cup level. So we could have 2 separate pools, so anyone who wishes to predict just McCarthy games will be satisfied and those who wish to predict all games can enter both pools!

So we could have a McCarthy champion, a Ring/Rackard/Meagher champion, and when all championships are finished we can do the math on the results to pick an overall champion from those who entered both pools!

patmac

jordainius wrote: »

Championship consists of 4 Munster games, 7 Leinster games, 7 qualifier games, and 5 All-Ireland games (2 quarters, 2 semi's, 1 final)

In my opinion, the Ulster Championship should not be included as it has no baring on the Liam McCarthy Cup

That's 23 games. Contestants should enter by posting the following predictions;

Munster Champion and Runner-Up, Leinster Champion and Runner Up, All-Ireland Champion and Runner Up, All-Ireland semi finalists, and highest scoring player.

Because there are a relatively small amount of games, I think the points system should be altered to give a far greater reward for predicting the scoring margin rather than the winner.


For example;

• 1 point for picking the winner. **
• 6 points for predicting a draw.
• 0 points for not guessing the outcome.

**Bonus points available

• 5 bonus points for guessing the margin exactly.
• 3 bonus points for being one point off.
• 2 bonus points for being two points off.
• 1 bonus point for being 3 points off.
• 0 bonus points for not guessing within 3 of the actual margin.

Lets look at the first match, Laois v Carlow. If I predict Laois by 1, I may only score points in the event of a Laois win e.g. if it is a draw or if Carlow win by a point, it doesn't matter that I have come close with my guess regarding the margin.



Additional bonus points (only for predictions made pre-championship. Entries after May 23 not eligible for the following)

• 5 points for predicting All-Ireland champions
• 3 points for predicting All-Ireland runner Up
• 3 points for predicting All-Ireland semi finalist (each)
• 3 points for predicting Leinster champions
• 3 points for predicting Munster champions
• 2 points for predicting Leinster runners-up
• 2 points for predicting Munster runners-up
• 3 points for correctly guessing championships highest scorer.

I feel predictions on individual matches must be made in the 7 days preceding matchday, predictions will not be accepted later than midday on matchday.

I reckon that predicting as many matches as possible before the season starts is very restrictive, as anything can happen, i.e. a team could lose a very influential player to injury. Limericks players could suddenly return or Corks players could strike again. Taking predictions on a week by week basis will allow greater flexibility.

Now Daysha look what you started!

aidan24326

patmac wrote: »

But your excluding a lot of counties that are involved in the lower etchelons of the championship. Hurling is an elitist eenough sport as it is without boards adding to it.
What harm for you to do a bit of research in the lower leagues, also it will give you an added interest in the The Rickard/Meagher cups as you scream at the telly when Monaghan score a last minute goal to secure the championship pools title.

I hear what you're saying, and of course the lower competitions deserve recognition aswell. But in terms of predicting the games, I daresay most of us here wouldn't have a clue about the Leitrim or Cavan or Fermanagh hurlers, so games like that would be pure guesswork. And I'm not sure I could even be bothered researching it, as to be brutally honest about it the standard down at Lori Meagher Cup level is very very poor.

The aforementioned counties, not to mention a few more aswell, would be hammered by any decent club team from one of the top counties. That isn't to dismiss them or be patronising or anything like that, it's just the reality of the enormous gap between top and bottom in hurling.

patmac

The Christy Ring started yesterday so does that mean that we are ignoring the small counties?
Also the Football championship started last week and continues next week, what's the story lads?

Daysha

Apologies, bit of a hectic week and these Christy Ring matches seem to have appeared out of no where.

Jordainius has expressed an interest in taking over the hurling pools from me, so it's his if he wants it. I'll be getting in touch with him now and you can expect the pools to commence very soon after that

jordainius

Okay I don't mind running it at all, but I'm not a massive contributor to the boards here so I hope people don't mind if a relative unknown takes the reigns on this!

Unfortunately a week of the "lesser" competitions has been missed but if a competition were to be up and running for next weekend then one week missed wont make too much of a difference in the grand scheme of things.

I would prefer to run it with the system I posted on this thread if thats okay? And if nobody objects I'm happy to do it!

Spiritoftheseventies

Daysha Its a question whether there is enough interest in christy ring and Nicky rackard cups to be honest to merit extra pools. End of the day we dont really know that much about the lower tier teams to make a sound prediction on them.
In anycase dont think every game in Liam Mac Carthy championship is going to be that clear cut but maybe introducing a handicap system might make things interesting.
ie Dublin to beat Kilkenny via a seven point start.

patmac

jordainius wrote: »

Okay I don't mind running it at all, but I'm not a massive contributor to the boards here so I hope people don't mind if a relative unknown takes the reigns on this!

Unfortunately a week of the "lesser" competitions has been missed but if a competition were to be up and running for next weekend then one week missed wont make too much of a difference in the grand scheme of things.

I would prefer to run it with the system I posted on this thread if thats okay? And if nobody objects I'm happy to do it!

Seems a complicated system but good luck!

jordainius

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Daysha Its a question whether there is enough interest in christy ring and Nicky rackard cups to be honest to merit extra pools. End of the day we dont really know that much about the lower tier teams to make a sound prediction on them.

I will be posting two leaderboards- one for McCarthy Cup only and one for all competitions.

patmac wrote: »

Seems a complicated system but good luck!

Agreed- which is why I will use the points system Daysha used in the 2010 NHL pools, better the devil you know:D