Indo calls homosexuality a 'sexual deviancy'

panda100

I came across this 'article' yesterday when I was at work: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/ian-odoherty/ian-odoherty-together-they-could-take-over-the-world-2143825.html (See 'Now,Now don't judge them')

I am absolutely appaled and shocked that an editor would allow this into one of Irelands biggest selling newspapers. Ian O'Doherty calls homosexuality a 'sexual deviancy' and then continues to compare gay people with paedophiles.

I am working in a Brain Injury unit at the moment and last week we had an absolutely lovely 24 year old man refered to us with blindness and two brain Injurys after a violent homophobic attack on him. Ian o'Doherty should not be allowed to get away with airing his quite frankly ignorant and disgusting views that continue to margalinise the gay community even further.

Is the Irish media always this bad towards homosexuality?

Sir Ophiuchus

Ian O'Doherty's schtick is being politically incorrect. Taking him seriously is probably a mistake.

Auvers

but homosexuality is deviant behaviour, it mightnt be the most carefully chosen word but I think he means anyones chosen lifestyle that is outside the accepted norm

de·vi·ant
   /ˈdiviənt/
–adjective
1.
deviating or departing from the norm; characterized by deviation: deviant social behavior.
–noun
2.
a person or thing that deviates or departs markedly from the accepted norm.

Herbal Deity

1. It's the Indo.
2. It's Ian O' Doherty.

I doubt he really has ignorant or disgusting views, he's just what would be referred to on the internet as a troll.

I disagree with censorship, so I don't think he shouldn't be allowed to say this stuff, even if it is inflammatory for the sake of being inflammatory.

That said, you wouldn't expect any respectable newspaper to allow this kind of thing, but then again, see point 1.

panda100

Sir Ophiuchus wrote: »

Ian O'Doherty's schtick is being politically incorrect. Taking him seriously is probably a mistake.

That doesnt make it ok. His columns week after week attack the most vunerable people in Irish society. It is deeply,deeply offensive comparing homosexuality to paedophilia and as long as he is given room in one of Irelands biggest papers to air his ignorant views,the longer people will believe its okay to be intolerant and indeed violent towards gay people.

Aard

The problem isn't Ian O'Doherty. The problem is people who beat others up. Stopping the former from being "offensive" isn't going to stop the latter.

Marshy

Tbh, I don't think this is all that offensive. I mean, "deviancy" perhaps is a poorly chosen term but overall I can't say its that extreme.

In a broader context, censorship generally isn't a good thing imo and I think people can be too quick these days to condemn something as homophobic when it expresses any form of "anti-gay" sentiment.

Extreme views which have no basis are a different matter of course but a lack of debate on some issues would be problematic.

MicraBoy

Now, now, don't judge them

We live in strange and frequently hideous times. Every form of sexual deviancy is now seen by some as legitimate and we shouldn't judge them.

Gay people have groups like Stonewall and the Terence Higgins Trust, paedophiles have NAMBLA (North American Man-Boy Love Association) and, of course, the Catholic Church.

And now there's a particularly unpleasant support group -- for people who like to engage in a little bestiality.

Frankly that is more offensive to Catholics than it is to us queers.

I don't really like this rallying against opinion pieces. You have the choice to reject this stuff if you wish, but I am loathe to start talking about editors not being allowed to include opinion pieces because the content is offensive.

Besides which this guy is obviously just trying to be offensive to as many people as possible, which makes it all a bit meh.

Dr. Baltar

As much as I disagree with his views, I think there should be absolute freedom of the press. Let people post whatever they want whether it be the "homosexual agenda" or Naziism. Censorship is not a step forward.

Tricity Bendix

This gets a big Meh from me. It's a shock piece. And not a very shocking one at that.

Chuchoter

I want you to put black people in the place of gay people in that article and see how much of an opinion piece this is.

Tricity Bendix

crayolastereo wrote: »

I want you to put black people in the place of gay people in that article and see how much of an opinion piece this is.

'Black people' aren't a group with a distinct sexual preference. So, yeah, it wouldn't be an opinion piece, but purely because it wouldn't make a lick of sense.

Annasopra

You can submit a complaint to the Press Ombudsman - see below how to make a complaint and the Press Code of Practice

http://www.presscouncil.ie/v2/pressombudsman/portal.php?content=_includes/howtocomplain.php

http://www.presscouncil.ie/v2/pressombudsman/portal.php?content=_includes/codeofpractice.php

Chuchoter

Johnnymcg wrote: »

You can submit a complaint to the Press Ombudsman - see below how to make a complaint and the Press Code of Practice

http://www.presscouncil.ie/v2/pressombudsman/portal.php?content=_includes/howtocomplain.php

http://www.presscouncil.ie/v2/pressombudsman/portal.php?content=_includes/codeofpractice.php

Great information on there, I complained. I love complaining to places :P

dlofnep

What an absurd article.

Annasopra

dlofnep wrote: »

What an absurd article.

It's Ian O Doherty - he's not known for coherency, sensibility or tolerance. He has written many articles like this that attack gay men, lesbians, travellers, transsexuals, women, wheelchair users

dlofnep

To be honest, I'm not overly familiar with his work - but if that's the norm of him - he seems like a backwards, bitter individual.

Pittens

You can submit a complaint to the Press Ombudsman - see below how to make a complaint and the Press Code of Practice

Good luck with that one. Homosexuality is definitely a sexual deviancy. It deviates from the norm. It's a mathematical term.

MicraBoy

crayolastereo wrote: »

I want you to put black people in the place of gay people in that article and see how much of an opinion piece this is.

Well nothing is going to change the fact that it is an opinion piece by virtue of the fact that it is in the opinion section of the paper, it is not news and it is not reported or presented as such.

Tricity Bendix

Pittens wrote: »

Good luck with that one. Homosexuality is definitely a sexual deviancy. It deviates from the norm. It's a mathematical term.

"Deviant" has pretty negative connotations, don't you think?

johnnycnandy

This is a sociological term. It doesn't mean he's referring to homosexuals as deviants. In Sociology, heterosexuality is called a social "norm", in that the majority of the population is heterosexual. A person who is a sexuality other than hetero is said to deviate from the social norm. This is why he calls it a sexual deviancy. It's a deviancy from the social norm.

dlofnep

Pittens wrote: »

Good luck with that one. Homosexuality is definitely a sexual deviancy. It deviates from the norm. It's a mathematical term.

You know very well that it was not used in a mathematical context. He was implying that it's wrong, and took issue with the fact they homosexuality shouldn't be judged.

It's not even that, that I find absurd. It's his placement of it in the same section of his article as some sex-farm. It was a clear and deliberate ruse to portray anything that deviates from what he views as normal, as wrong.

azezil

Pittens wrote: »

Good luck with that one. Homosexuality is definitely a sexual deviancy. It deviates from the norm. It's a mathematical term.

A sexual deviancy... um, how so? o_Ó

As for the article I shrugged and giggled at the lumping of the Catholic church in with paedophiles.

rainbow kirby

To be honest, I don't expect anything different from the Indo, given that they give David Quinn a mouthpiece to spew out his homophobic rubbish on a regular basis.

Tricity Bendix

Frankly, this guy doesn't strike me as either a mathematician or a sociologist. I think its assuming a little bit too much to say that he was borrowing the term from either of those great professions.

crotalus667

Herbal Deity wrote: »

1. It's the Indo.
2. It's Ian O' Doherty.

I doubt he really has ignorant or disgusting views, he's just what would be referred to on the internet as a troll.

I disagree with censorship, so I don't think he shouldn't be allowed to say this stuff, even if it is inflammatory for the sake of being inflammatory.

That said, you wouldn't expect any respectable newspaper to allow this kind of thing, but then again, see point 1.

I do agree with you but the prob is (or at least the prob i have is) many people take the indo as true as my grandparents do

panda100

crotalus667 wrote: »

I do agree with you but the prob is (or at least the prob i have is) many people take the indo as true as my grandparents do

My parents have read the Indo their whole lives and they have horrific views towards gay people,the same with my brother. Yes Ian O'Doherty is a troll and I wouldn't mind his ignorant opinions If they were balanced with some positive news or opinion piece on the gay community,but there very,very rare in the Indo.

Annasopra

panda100 wrote: »

My parents have read the Indo their whole lives and they have horrific views towards gay people,the same with my brother. Yes Ian O'Doherty is a troll and I wouldn't mind his ignorant opinions If they were balanced with some positive news or opinion piece on the gay community,but there very,very rare in the Indo.

Agreed - I suggest you lodge a complaint

Herbal Deity

But the problem is with the attitudes themselves, and that so many people hold the Indo in high esteem, not what is written in it or similar media.

And whether media like the Indo are the cause of these attitudes, or if these attitudes result in such media being held in high esteem, is debatable.

stephen_n

panda100 wrote: »

That doesnt make it ok. His columns week after week attack the most vunerable people in Irish society. It is deeply,deeply offensive comparing homosexuality to paedophilia and as long as he is given room in one of Irelands biggest papers to air his ignorant views,the longer people will believe its okay to be intolerant and indeed violent towards gay people.

Is he preaching violence or intolerance towards gay people? Your argument seems to be that anybody who doesn't see life your way shouldn't be allowed have a public opinion or be involved in the print media. He is there because he represents a large portion of that papers readers and is quite entitled to make his point if he likes as long as it doesn't cause or encourage harm to others. Now having read the article I don't see it causing harm to me and as was pointed out the word he uses although not politically correct is an accurate term for homosexuality. I'm studying Freud at the moment and his word for homosexuals is "invert" again not a particularly nice word to use but factually correct, maybe you should start a campaign to have Freuds books banned and we could have a good old book burning while we are at it?

Bottle_of_Smoke

dlofnep wrote: »

You know very well that it was not used in a mathematical context. He was implying that it's wrong, and took issue with the fact they homosexuality shouldn't be judged.

It's not even that, that I find absurd. It's his placement of it in the same section of his article as some sex-farm. It was a clear and deliberate ruse to portray anything that deviates from what he views as normal, as wrong.

To be honest I think IOD was actually using it without intending to offend. I read his stuff a lot and haven't seen him be homophobic before. He's very liberal, anti-religion etc

This article was about beastiality, I think he's satirising the idea that someone could consider this acceptable because homosexuals are a minority yet most people consider them to be acceptable - "but, really, this is beyond the pale".

Was certainly clumsy putting the nambla part in the same sentence as gays and stonewall but I think it was only to make fun of the Catholic church, genuinely don't think he was saying they're like for like.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Same author here making fun of the pope for criticising gay marriage:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/ian-odoherty/what--only-the-gay-lads-why-stop-there-1249454.html

Annasopra

Ian O Doherty writes to deliberately offend and I can probably look back and find a good few articles that are homophobic and transphobic, I think that Newspaper editors nowadays use reactionary columnists e.g. Kevin Myers, Brenda Power, Jan Moir in order to increase the links and hits to their website - how many times has this thread now linked back? And the indo will of course use those stats to seek more advertising

door

Auvers wrote: »

but homosexuality is deviant behaviour, it mightnt be the most carefully chosen word but I think he means anyones chosen lifestyle that is outside the accepted norm
.

Chosen lifestyle? Explain that one!

Auvers

door wrote: »

Chosen lifestyle? Explain that one!

no need to nitpick

Pittens

I think he was clearly pushing buttons, but he can claim to be using the term deviancy in the sociological or mathematical terms, and that is why the press complaint won't work.

I dont like him either btw.

oisindoyle

Auvers wrote: »

no need to nitpick

but you didnt explain it ?? Since when is homosexuality a "chosen lifestyle"

Auvers

Auvers wrote: »

but homosexuality is deviant behaviour, it mightn't be the most carefully chosen word but I think he means that sexual preference that is outside the accepted norm .

okay I prettied it up a bit for you sensitive people