Diesel rough start / rough running. Opinions?

Christ0pher

I went to test drive a 6 year old Citroen Xsara diesel yesterday. I ran one years ago and liked it, so thought I'd revisit the model again. This car is a 1.9D in great nick inside & out, I liked it but have one concern. It was quite hesitant to start. Once it did start it ran rough on idle for the first 20 - 30 seconds. I didn't notice any smoke at the back. So I took it for a good 10 minute spin in any case, didn't notice anything else. All seemed fine. Performance was OK as it's a non-turbo, idling was OK if a bit high (about 1100 rpm).

Several things crossed my mind re: start up issue:

1. Maybe it's been sat up for a while and battery is low?
2. Timing belt may need to be done? (85K on clock)
3. A failed Injector or something?

In the absence of a service book (I know, I know), the dealers receptionist gave me the mobile of the previous owner, to ask about the history. I called him, and he seemed really genuine. He said new battery has been put in recently, and the timing belt was done at 75K.
I'm not a diesel expert, but since I'm told the timing belt has been done, and a new battery installed - that leaves - something more serious or no?
Any diesel "gurus" out there !?

challengemaster

my guess would be heater plugs aren't working right

tommycahir

Possibly just heater plugs as poster above mentioned but one thing i have noticed with some cars I have test drove recently is engine compression is fecked. Which often manifests itself by poor starting and rough sounding when idle and driving

My mate a mechanic told me to check this by removing the oil cap and place your had over the hole where oil cap was for 30-40 seconds and if your hand is covered in oil when you remove it then there is a good chance that the rings are worn and that the compression is gone in the engine.

If that's the case its just easier to avoid it.

I could be wrong about the above but that's what a mate told me so if anybody knows better then please let me know.

cuculainn

tommycahir wrote: »

Possibly just heater plugs as poster above mentioned but one thing i have noticed with some cars I have test drove recently is engine compression is fecked. Which often manifests itself by poor starting and rough sounding when idle and driving

My mate a mechanic told me to check this by removing the oil cap and place your had over the hole where oil cap was for 30-40 seconds and if your hand is covered in oil when you remove it then there is a good chance that the rings are worn and that the compression is gone in the engine.

If that's the case its just easier to avoid it.

I could be wrong about the above but that's what a mate told me so if anybody knows better then please let me know.

Not a diesel expert but would have thought that there would be a bit of oil splashing about in the rockerhead cover (esp if overhead cam) and it would be unlikely you wouldn't get some oil on your hand???

Would be interested to hear more on this, as I am looking to buy a diesel myself soon and would like to know what to look out for

Christ0pher

heater plugs eh? Possible I guess. would that account for initial roughness also? Turnover was quite slow too, which made me think battery initially. any other diagnosis lads?

OldmanMondeo

I have a similar problem with my Mondoe, turns out the Glow Plug control wore was damaged. Once replaced the car is ok, but I think I need to do the Plugs next.

shamwari

I'm assuming this Xsara has the XUD engine and not the HDi.

Leaving glowplugs and their electrics aside, I am almost certain that these things have a rubber primer bulb to draw up fuel from the tank when you change the diesel filter. Sometimes these bulbs can perish and allow air into the fuel system, making the car hard to start.

To test this, you can do either of the following in the hope it makes the starting easier:

1. Prime the rubber bulb before you start the car

or

2. Park the car on a slope with the nose pointing downwards. This will stop the fuel flowing back to the tank


Success with either of these two points to air ingress.

Turbulent Bill

Christ0pher wrote: »

heater plugs eh? Possible I guess. would that account for initial roughness also? Turnover was quite slow too, which made me think battery initially. any other diagnosis lads?

My 98 Xsara TD (XUD engine) had the similar symptoms, started instantly but very rough for a short period (fair amount of grey smoke) before it warmed up, warm starts were fine. During the recent cold snap it was very hesitant to start, thought the battery was shot so replaced this, no improvement. Turns out 3 of the 4 heater plugs needed to be replaced, only really revealed by the cold weather. It's been fine since.

It was a cheap fix, about €25 for each plug (I think) plus labour.

Row

As mentioned above Glow plugs would be the first thing to check.

Christ0pher

Interesting. Thanks lads. I called the dealer back today. He seems an up-front sort of guy (don't they all! ). I told him about the start up worry - he says he will replace the heater plugs and do a full service. Once this is done - I'll re-drive it and see if things are better. If not I'll park on a slope as shamwari advises to see if that helps things. If not - then I will walk away !

shamwari

Christ0pher wrote: »

Interesting. Thanks lads. I called the dealer back today. He seems an up-front sort of guy (don't they all! ). I told him about the start up worry - he says he will replace the heater plugs and do a full service. Once this is done - I'll re-drive it and see if things are better. If not I'll park on a slope as shamwari advises to see if that helps things. If not - then I will walk away !

How much is he looking for this car?

Christ0pher

He advertised at 3900. That includes NCT guarantee (it's booked in for one) and 3 month engine / GB warranty. Says he'll do it for 3800.