can a company be born in a weekend?

newfrontier

Hi Guys,

I thought I would get some feedback about the following dublin.startupweekend.org , what do you think will it work a 100 people coming together to form about 10 startups.There have been successs stories in other countries, will it work in Ireland. I am intested in hearing your thoughts. I personally believe that the idea has potential and in the current climate is worth a shot.

stepbar

newfrontier wrote: »

Hi Guys,

I thought I would get some feedback about the following dublin.startupweekend.org , what do you think will it work a 100 people coming together to form about 10 startups.There have been successs stories in other countries, will it work in Ireland. I am intested in hearing your thoughts. I personally believe that the idea has potential and in the current climate is worth a shot.

I'm sure the idea has potential but only if the 10 startups are going to be export led. Otherwise it's a waste of time.

Southsider1

stepbar wrote: »

I'm sure the idea has potential but only if the 10 startups are going to be export led. Otherwise it's a waste of time.

You're saying that any company that does not involve export doesn't deserve a look in? So, what's the obsession with export Stepbar? You sound like someone from the CEB or the Govt. neither have any great track record in entrepreneurship... Just in case you didn't realise, many more people are employed in 'non export' than export in Ireland.

stepbar

Southsider1 wrote: »

You're saying that any company that does not involve export doesn't deserve a look in? So, what's the obsession with export Stepbar? You sound like someone from the CEB or the Govt. neither have any great track record in entrepreneurship...

They don't deserve the same level of funding. You won't grow expotentially by concentrating on one market... and you won't certainly grow at the rate a professional investor will expect. There HAS to be an export orientation element and it HAS to be realised very quickly (i.e less than 2-3 yrs).

Just in case you didn't realise, many more people are employed in 'non export' than export in Ireland

And there lies part of the problem we're in at the moment...

Southsider1

stepbar wrote: »

They don't deserve the same level of funding. You won't grow expotentially by concentrating on one market... and you won't certainly grow at the rate a professional investor will expect. There HAS to be an export orientation element and it HAS to be realised very quickly (i.e less than 2-3 yrs).



And there lies part of the problem we're in at the moment...

And that is complete rubbish - sounds like something a college lecturer with no practical business experience would utter. There's hundreds if not thousands of non export businesses that have grown exponentially in Ireland. Shops, restaurants, non export manufacturers, distributors, services etc etc.

stepbar

Southsider1 wrote: »

And that is complete rubbish - sounds like something a college lecturer with no practical business experience would utter. There's hundreds if not thousands of non export businesses that have grown exponentially in Ireland. Shops, restaurants, non export manufacturers, distributors, services etc etc.

I have a piece of software (for example) that has the potential to solve an age old problem and I have a person making cup cakes. Which do you think has the better potential for exponential growth?

Of course there are loads of businesses that have grown exponentially in Ireland..... but at the expense of other businesses in the same sectors! In times of boom an economy can support a business that is growing exponentially. In times of bust it can't. Simple law of economics. You do understand the laws of supply and demand surely?

And whilst the rules do not change once you get outside of Ireland, it will take a lot longer for to hit a plateau in demand as you have a larger marketplace to sell into.

Southsider1

stepbar wrote: »

I have a piece of software (for example) that has the potential to solve an age old problem and I have a person making cup cakes. Which do you think has the better potential for exponential growth?

Of course there are loads of businesses that have grown exponentially in Ireland..... but at the expense of other businesses in the same sectors! In times of boom an economy can support a business that is growing exponentially. In times of bust it can't. Simple law of economics. You do understand the laws of supply and demand surely?

Look, I'm not being smart but you do know the meaning of exponential don't you?

Re: your software v cup cake - either could. The cup cake can be exported (see the shelves in your local Aldi/Lidl/Tesco for examples) as can the software. The software will sell once per customer, the cup cake will provide for much repeat sales... Your software is only good until the next better or rival's version comes along and the cup cake.... well, the concept is around a while longer than software!!

stepbar

Southsider1 wrote: »

Look, I'm not being smart but you do know the meaning of exponential don't you?

O I understand it alright....... and for it to be classed as "real" exponential growth it's linked to size of the population you can sell into. Not by concentrating on the one market. We are not in times of boom anymore.

The cup cake can be exported (see the shelves in your local Aldi/Lidl/Tesco for examples) as can the software. The software will sell once per customer, the cup cake will provide for much repeat sales...

Your software is only good until the next better or rival's version comes along and the cup cake.... well, the concept is around a while longer than software!!

What.... exported to my local Aldi?

The software will sell internationally that's the point as it should be an export led product. In 2003, Ireland exported 14 billion worth of software - http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,348682,00.html. Unfortunatly, the vast majority of companies who did the exporting were not Irish.

Your final point is largely irrelevant as this can happen to any product. The correct type of software clearly has the better potential for export than cup cakes which are largely micro enterprises with not the same level of scalable potential. Oh you can scale up alright but costs increase significantly if you want to export. A piece of software can be copied millions of times on a reducing cost scale.

Southsider1

stepbar wrote: »

What.... exported to my local Aldi?

The software will sell internationally that's the point as it should be an export led product. In 2003, Ireland exported 14 billion worth of software - http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,348682,00.html. Unfortunatly, the vast majority of companies who did the exporting were not Irish.

Your final point is largely irrelevant as this can happen to any product. The correct type of software clearly has the better potential for export than cup cakes which are largely micro enterprises with not the same level of scalable potential. Oh you can scale up alright but costs increase significantly if you want to export. A piece of software can be copied millions of times on a reducing cost scale.

The Aldi thing was an example of food products being exported:- I'll spell it out for you: You can make a cup cake and sell it locally or export it and sell it to a company such as Aldi who could sell it anywhere in Europe. God, this is onerous!

And your point about the software sales in 2003 bears out exactly what I was saying. There has NOT been 'Exponential' growth in such markets in the last few years however the businesses that CEBs don't support have shown growth! Comprendez?

IrishInnovation

Looks like this conversation is spiraling downward... :-(

Personally, I think the start-up weekend is a great model for putting the power to create back in the hands of ordinary people.

I have been blogging about same and am in the process of getting talent together interested in taking this start-up model into a virtual environment...

http://irishinnovation.wordpress.com/2010/04/21/virtual-company-opportunities/

newfrontier

Good discussion guys but lets call it quits at 2 well made points and move back on topic. Will the concept work in Ireland and could it be replicated on a wider scale?

stepbar

Southsider1 wrote: »

The Aldi thing was an example of food products being exported:- I'll spell it out for you: You can make a cup cake and sell it locally or export it and sell it to a company such as Aldi who could sell it anywhere in Europe. God, this is onerous!

And your point about the software sales in 2003 bears out exactly what I was saying. There has NOT been 'Exponential' growth in such markets in the last few years however the businesses that CEBs don't support have shown growth! Comprendez?

Look.... I've already said that the CEB model is broke. You seem to think that the CEB's should be concentrating on homegrown companies with feck all export portential. I disagree with a passion.

You first point is irrelevant as, had you read my posts and understood them, you wouldn't have even have made the point in the first place. Maybe I should have added a <rolleyes> to the "What.... exported to my local Aldi?" comment.....

Graham

Sorry stepbar but there are so many flaws in your comments that I feel absolutely compelled to respond.

About startupweekend.org

I'm sure the idea has potential but only if the 10 startups are going to be export led. Otherwise it's a waste of time.

Are you suggesting that the only businesses ever likely to succeed are those that export? Granted, businesses that supply internationally have greater room for growth but to cast out of hand local small and medium enterprises concentrating on a local market is absurd. Are you suggesting that there's no room at all for new products/services in the home market? Are you suggesting there are no new niches yet to be filled?

I bet the entrepreneurs that started daft.ie are delighted not to have had you on-board as an early stage advisor.

"Parvis e glandibus quercus."*1

Were you an advisor to the original boo.com?

About companies that don't export

They don't deserve the same level of funding. You won't grow expotentially by concentrating on one market... and you won't certainly grow at the rate a professional investor will expect. There HAS to be an export orientation element and it HAS to be realised very quickly (i.e less than 2-3 yrs).

I don't see much of a reference to 'funding' on the startupweekend.org website, nor much along the lines of 'professional investors', in-fact, my impression is startupweekend.org is more about boot-strap launches with minimum initial finance, maximum personal effort.

Again, I don't understand your obsession with 'export orientation', there are thousands of examples across the world of businesses that cater to a specific national market, are very profitable and yet are still nowhere near saturating their own domestic market. Why would they stretch their resources/finances to try and compete internationally until they'd maximised their investment/penetration in the domestic market.

For arguments sake, let's say it's 2005. I'm a property developer concentrating on building houses for the domestic Irish market, I'm making good money doing exactly what I've been doing for the last 15 years. You're suggesting 'There HAS to be an export orientation element and it HAS to be realised very quickly'. Thanks for the advice, I've just built 5,000 new houses in Eastern Europe and I'm in for massive profits. It's now 2010, NAMA have just taken over my €250,000,000 property portfolio, are calling in my personal guarantees and I have to explain to my wife/children/staff why we're all going to be homeless shortly.

Are you still for exponential growth, isn't the boot-strap financed business growing out of it's own resources now in a better position than a business that leverages it's finances for growth 'realised very quickly'.

Last time I looked, the Insomnia coffee shops in Ireland were expanding, Starbucks in Ireland(globally), not so much.

About the comment 'more people are employed in non export than export

And there lies part of the problem we're in at the moment.

I'm struggling to understand how being a major exporter would sidestep the global economic crisis, are you under the misapprehension that the GLOBAL financial meltdown is unique to Ireland?

About the growth of local businesses serving the local market

I have a piece of software (for example) that has the potential to solve an age old problem and I have a person making cup cakes. Which do you think has the better potential for exponential growth?

Of course there are loads of businesses that have grown exponentially in Ireland..... but at the expense of other businesses in the same sectors! In times of boom an economy can support a business that is growing exponentially. In times of bust it can't. Simple law of economics. You do understand the laws of supply and demand surely?
And whilst the rules do not change once you get outside of Ireland, it will take a lot longer for to hit a plateau in demand as you have a larger marketplace to sell into.

Did you miss the seismic shift in the National and International economy in the last 2 or 3 years?
In times of global bust, what's a business to do?

OK, I'll bite. I'm a fictitious entrepreneur, you can call me 'Ms Kippl'. I've always been an enthusiastic maker of cup cakes and I'm considering opening my first 'cup cakes R us' shop. I know my cup cakes are superior to anyone elses in the market including 'Fairy cakes R us' down the road.

What makes me think this might be worthwhile? Simple, to quote stepbar 'supply and demand', "you do understand the laws of supply and demand?"
I have a lower cost base because my potential future landlords shop has been empty for the last 2 years (oversupply of premises).
I have a lower wage cost base because my new employees understand there has been a major shift in the average 'cup cake' salary in the last two years (oversupply of employees).
My potential suppliers are willing to give me better deals just to get my custom (oversupply of raw materials/suppliers).

Net result, I can meet the demand of my customers from a lower cost base precisely because of the laws of 'supply and demand'.

Stepbar does make one good point, this is probably all going to be at the expense of other businesses in the same sector. Very true, and these competitors in the same sector may be at a local, national and international level. If you're an entrepreneur and you're convinced you can do it better/cheaper/quicker, go for it. You're an entrepreneur, not an economist.

*1 "Tall oaks from little acorns grow."

Graham

Just for clarification:

I have no connection to startupweekend.org other than I think it's a great idea (from reading this thread on Friday and investigating since).

StupidLikeAFox

Graham wrote: »

Stepbar does make one good point, this is probably all going to be at the expense of other businesses in the same sector. Very true, and these competitors in the same sector may be at a local, national and international level. If you're an entrepreneur and you're convinced you can do it better/cheaper/quicker, go for it. You're an entrepreneur, not an economist.

This is true, and a domestic business does have the potential to grow exponentially and be a market leader and by the laws of competition they are more than entitled to do this....

However, the CEBs should not be providing funding to these types of company. The reason being that if they do, they are supporting one local company to profit at the expense of another local company. Provide business advice (management, tax, legal etc) to new start ups who need it definitely, but not funding. It is anti-competitive to sponsor a start up to challenge an established companies market share considering the established company cannot avail of this and the country is gaining no benefit from it either. Its basically like a town chamber of commerce funding a new business which will take custom from another existing business without bringing in custom from neighbouring towns. Overall the town is no better off.

I completely understand the focus on funding export led businesses as they bring money into the country from outside of it, not sure about any economic terms for it but ColHol says the more money in this country the better!.

Graham

Hi New Frontier,

I think this sounds like a really interesting idea and I really can't see why it wouldn't work as long as:

• enough people are attracted to attend
• the people that do attend have the right mix of skills

Are you involved in the event or did you just notice it? I ask this only so I know whether to fire questions at you.

IrishInnovation

I just wanted to pick up on a comment earlier about the perceived lack of 'angels' or investors at the start-up weekend (I'm applying this to the web / internet space in general)...maybe it's just me but I think people have been duped into thinking that you need 1) angel's money to make things happen 2) you need the likes of CEB's and EI funding to make things happen.

To my mind, this start-up weekend is about people power. EI and the likes maintain their positions by controlling and limiting who they support. They boast about supporting over 100 companies (or something like that in 2009), in my view it should be a multiple of that. We should be embracing the philosophy of rapid prototyping across all sectors and ideas to fail often and quickly to succeed sooner, but instead these agencies control the accelerator thereby enforcing the illusion that there is not enough tax payers money to go round and only the smartest get through (can you imagine if the lads behind twitter had gone to the CEB or EI's HPSU for funding and support?)

We live in extraordinary times that offer many opportunities for community driven start-ups, 1) there is a lot of unemployed talent out there 2) some of that talent may be tired of hopping from one project to the next selling hours (in a highly globalised world, time is commodity and there is always someone in India or the like willing to do things cheaper; try competing on odesk.com or similar) 3) sharing and pooling this expertise over a weekend where people become founders of what could be the next big thing really is putting the power to create back into the hands of ordinary people.

In highly connected, globalised world, I don't see how over the course of a weekend you can't hammer something out and then bring it to market using the power of networks like LinkedIn and others. The Irish Diaspora alone should be able to sustain, grow and support Irish start-ups...if something fails, so what, on with the next project and the next idea...

To quote from the start-up weekend website:

"Startup Weekend recruits a highly motivated group of developers, business managers, startup enthusiasts, marketing gurus, graphic artists and more to a 54 hour event that builds communities, companies and projects."

I believe this model offers all of us massive opportunities to bootstrap ourselves and this economy into something exciting and sustainable. Govt and all their quangos and agencies are a distraction (and they're broke as all our money goes to zombie banks and other gob****es).

I am attending this weekend and I hope one of my ideas is chosen for development. If not I'm building a group of like minded people who would like to get involved in bootstrapping themselves and Ireland Inc. If you'd like to find out more join the Irish Innovation Group on LinkedIn...(sorry for the long post)

stepbar

ColHol wrote: »

This is true, and a domestic business does have the potential to grow exponentially and be a market leader and by the laws of competition they are more than entitled to do this....

However, the CEBs should not be providing funding to these types of company. The reason being that if they do, they are supporting one local company to profit at the expense of another local company. Provide business advice (management, tax, legal etc) to new start ups who need it definitely, but not funding. It is anti-competitive to sponsor a start up to challenge an established companies market share considering the established company cannot avail of this and the country is gaining no benefit from it either. Its basically like a town chamber of commerce funding a new business which will take custom from another existing business without bringing in custom from neighbouring towns. Overall the town is no better off.

I completely understand the focus on funding export led businesses as they bring money into the country from outside of it, not sure about any economic terms for it but ColHol says the more money in this country the better!.

Abso-bloody-lutely. Isn't that what it's all about!!!!

Graham

How did this thread become about what CEB's should and shouldn't support?

I'd be interested in hearing more about startupweekend.org, there appears to be very little about it on the Internet apart from the events themselves (I found 1 case study on google so far).

MovieExtras.ie: Derek

In theory, i think this a brilliant idea.

Lots of people have great ideas but don't have the resources or network to execute them. Hence meeting up with people of various disciplines and trying to set up businesses is fantastic.

My only reservations would be around the following:

Shareholding: What is the shareholding structure of a business that is pitched, and subsequently goes live. Given the fun / stress atmosphere of the weekend, I wonder whether a reasonable shareholding agreement representing everyone’s input can be achieved.

IP: Protection of the IP aspect of it sounds very questionable. On their site, they note that if the idea seems very unique, then you should not pitch, but rather talent scout. This could lead to someone taking your idea. And if the pitches are not unique, what is the point??

Maybe I am just being too cynical

I would love to attend it, but alas I have work commitments on the Saturday.

fergalfrog

I think it's a great idea and this model has worked before.
However if you want to set up a website to sell product x do you start adding photos of product x to the website over the weekend and try and get the website live by the Sunday night?

Because you are in a room for the weekend would there not be a lot of "I will get that next week when I get back to the office".

evoke

has anyone gone to it this weekend? Does anyone know if it was worth the €75 to go and give your experience and motivation?

baileye

I was at the Dublin Startup Weekend - I've put up a short blog post about it already: http://eoinbailey.com/blog/dublin-startup-weekend-analysis-and-our-prototype-hit-road

It was a lot of fun. It's amazing to see how much can be done in a weekend. My team worked on a website that will allow dublin commuters to search across all public transport, it is very much not ready yet, I would call it pre-alpha (4-8 seconds search times, not all routes in, etc...), but we did get some data and a [naive] search algorithm in place in a day and a half, and that is quite cool.

There was a good buzz all weekend, the only downside is they wouldn't let us stay as late as we wanted working, the NDRC has to lock up at night, and if not our team would have been working all weekend with some napping thrown in.

Clint mentioned that the first Startup Weekend in any country is always the toughest, since it has no traction, but they are hoping to do another in maybe 6 months, and if experiences in other countries are anything to go by that event will be much better than this one - in which case I would probably go again.

fergalfrog

Wow that's pretty cool and a good account of your experience.

When do you think you will be able to go live with it and do you each have an equal stake in the project after the event?

baileye

There has been no discussion on equity. That's part of the weekend. There is no rule, but a recommendation that the work is done, and if something comes out of it then start looking at project stakes. It's not something we have discussed at all yet.

As for when it will be live... I think we'll have something a bit more ready by next week sometime, but as the number of routes grows so does the computation time on our end to populate our database, we anticipate that with all the info input and the optimisations we want to put in place it will takes days to execute - I only mention that since it will slow down launch as a tweak to the algorithm can mean days before we know if it worked!

Graham

Thanks for letting us know things went Baileye, really interesting stuff.

evoke

i really like the way you have written the blog. Very funny. i will use that style of blogging for my blog cause it is better than my style.

it seems like you are all tech heads. I thought there was suppose to be different people like PR,engineers etc? Did that not apply to your group?

i think it is quite good. It gets people that ambition all together in the same room. Anyone participating would be ambition to see the project through. They are only there for themselves.

How did you choose ruby? Did everyone have experience in that. I am a java ,perl,korn,xml and unix kind of person. Just wondering would i have fitted in if i was there.

thanks

baileye

There was about 50% tech people at the event, which apparently is quite high. Supposedly they have trouble getting enough developers to come to the events sometimes. We had 5 developers and three business people on our team.

We choose ruby because it would allow us to get the most done in the weekend. I didn't know any ruby before the weekend started, so I picked up a little bit of that, but I worked on data collection, helped with the Google Maps integration, teamed up with any of the others who had a problem to help solve it.

The event is skewed towards web startups, for two reasons: it's who is most likely to see the event, all the information about the weekend is on the web. 2. Web startups can be done in a weekend - the team will have something to show after two days. Having said that, you can pitch any idea you want (they had a pillow company form at one of the weekends, they brought in sewing machines and everything), and if enough people like the sound of it, the team forms and builds on the idea.

Graham

Were all of the pitches turned into companies or did some fail to get off the ground?

baileye

Not all pitches become teams. There was about 18 pitches made on Friday evening, each person gets to decide which idea they want to line up behind, and the ones that don't gain traction can be cut. But if you still want to try to go it with only 2 people that's ok too. There are no hard and fast rules on how to organise, it's more of a loose framework.

maninasia

stepbar wrote: »

I have a piece of software (for example) that has the potential to solve an age old problem and I have a person making cup cakes. Which do you think has the better potential for exponential growth?

Of course there are loads of businesses that have grown exponentially in Ireland..... but at the expense of other businesses in the same sectors! In times of boom an economy can support a business that is growing exponentially. In times of bust it can't. Simple law of economics. You do understand the laws of supply and demand surely?

And whilst the rules do not change once you get outside of Ireland, it will take a lot longer for to hit a plateau in demand as you have a larger marketplace to sell into.

There's a misunderstanding here. Many businesses start off locally focused and then make the leap to export and international markets. It's the way most well known multinationals started..from HP, Intel, Starbucks, McDonalds, TopShop etc. They built a base and model in their own country first. It's more difficult in Ireland due to very small market here, I personally would focus on export off the bat, but it can also be done like this.

maninasia

MovieExtras.ie: Derek wrote: »

In theory, i think this a brilliant idea.

Lots of people have great ideas but don't have the resources or network to execute them. Hence meeting up with people of various disciplines and trying to set up businesses is fantastic.

My only reservations would be around the following:

Shareholding: What is the shareholding structure of a business that is pitched, and subsequently goes live. Given the fun / stress atmosphere of the weekend, I wonder whether a reasonable shareholding agreement representing everyone’s input can be achieved.

IP: Protection of the IP aspect of it sounds very questionable. On their site, they note that if the idea seems very unique, then you should not pitch, but rather talent scout. This could lead to someone taking your idea. And if the pitches are not unique, what is the point??

Maybe I am just being too cynical

I would love to attend it, but alas I have work commitments on the Saturday.

Unique ideas mean nothing. It's execution that counts. Also ability to access funds and to sell.

How come Facebook is so big..but Facebook was simply a scaled down copy of other social network sites, they just hit on the right formula and were in the right place at the right time, then get the big bucks in behind them as only the US can. In most countries you would be closed down before you reached enough scale. Look at Youtube, still doesn't make a profit as the server costs are too high.

maninasia

Southsider1 wrote: »

The Aldi thing was an example of food products being exported:- I'll spell it out for you: You can make a cup cake and sell it locally or export it and sell it to a company such as Aldi who could sell it anywhere in Europe. God, this is onerous!

And your point about the software sales in 2003 bears out exactly what I was saying. There has NOT been 'Exponential' growth in such markets in the last few years however the businesses that CEBs don't support have shown growth! Comprendez?

Actually the cupcake idea is just as good as it's a multiple sale and if successful probably much harder to copy due to tangible materials, more complex sales channels and branding involved in such a business. A better version of your software could be created overnight somewhere else and it would be immediately available to customers, not so cupcakes!

newfrontier

Very interesting event and has great potential for business formation , I went along and enjoyed the experience. There is 3 active web ideas being pushed they are trying to hit phase 2 of biz life cycle and I will post here if I hear anything . I do know that 1 of the ideas is going for the launchpad programme (NDRC) where they get cash to implement the idea. I think this kicks off in August and lasts 3 months so if it gets accepted and survives ... I think it has a good chance of succeeding. So the original question won't have a final answer till 2011.

I am intersted in further discussion on how the format could be tweaked for our current situation. How can the format be adapted and improved upon ?

It certainly provides a fast turnaround from idea to reality and if you get the right mix of people things certainly happen quickly. I know of one web startup that is 18 months in the building and still hasn't launched.


The Crowdsourcing Site..approach
The YourcountryYourcall project has 8,000 ideas up for public viewing ...some good ...some not so good ..the sheer volume prevents any active discussion and you could probably start a thread on that (if there isn't one already .. If you mix the 2 approachs would it create new business's and how many people would a) partake in such a project b) help in such a project..I await interesting discussion...and maybe a new concept

newfrontier

Just a quick update for those interested the launchpad pitches start next week and the winners will be starting on the 17th August . The startupweekenders have 3 entries that I am aware of so Best of LucK to all.

newfrontier

The next startweekend taking place in dublin is 1st October good fun if you have an idea for a web startup:D