"Changing peoples behaviour"!!!!!

Kashkai

At what point did the fascists take over the country? Every goddam politician, lobby group etc bangs on about changing peoples behaviour. Examples:

change the motor tax system to make people buy diesel/small petrol engine cars to reduce our CO2 emissions. As if this little country can change the planet's climate all by itself. I'll buy whatever car I want so fcuk off greens.

Ban incandescent lightbulbs and only sell cfls. By the time the fcuking cfls have warmed up in my bathroom, I've already nearly cut my throat with the razor as I couldn't see what I was doing. I don't care if cfls last longer, they give off sh1te light. Plus the mercury in them will cause more harm to the environment you green gobs1tes. Leave me with my old bulbs.

If I want to drive my car into work then that's my choice. After all I pay tax and insurance on it so why shouldn't I use it? Public transport is dirty, unreliable and actually costs more per week than driving into work.

I don't want a battery powered car as I like to take long drives and not be limited by a charge that'll run out in a hundred miles. I don't want to wait hours to recharge the fcuking thing either.

I don't want to live in "sustainable" communities with row upon row of houses. I want to live in the countryside and have some living space.

I want to heat my house with proven fuels such as coal and oil and gas. I've tried the wood pellets and they were unreliable and it's not nice to get up in the middle of winter to find that the heating didn't come on.

I want to travel on long haul flights and I don't care about my carbon footprint. If humans had never travelled, Africa would be even more overpopulated than it is now

So I'm a grown adult and I'll live my life the way I see fit and I don't need some self righteous muppet telling me how I should "change my behaviour"

Jev/N

LOL at the spelling mistakes and random letters, you really must have written that in a rage! :pac:

genericguy

that carbon footprint bollox grates on me. it costs more in carbon terms to melt a piece of plastic in order to fashion it into a new piece of fcuking plastic than it would to make the new item from scratch. fcuk recycling, incinerators are far more environmentally friendly.

Morlar

It's the greenshirts with their thundering approx +-2% mandate !

Donkey Oaty

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

I don't need some self righteous muppet telling me how I should "change my behaviour"

Yes you do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWY8nYTYhJY&feature=related

the keen edge

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

At what point did the fascist take over the country? Ever goddam politician, lobby group etc bangs on about changing peoples behaviour. Examples:

change the motor tax system to make people buy diesel/small petrol engine cars to reduce our CO2 emmissions. As if this little country can change the planets climate all by itself. I'll buy whatever car u want so fcuk off greens.

Ban incandescent lightbulbs and only sell cfls. By the time the fcuking cfls have warmed up in my bathroom, I've alreay nearly cut my throat with the razor ad I couldn't see what I was doing. I don't care if cfls last longer, they give off sh1te light. Plus the mercury in them will cause more harm to the environment you green gobs1tes. Leave nevwith my old bulbs.

If I want to drive my car into wirk then that'sy choice. After all I pay tax and insurance on it so why shouldn't ivuse it? Public transport is dirty, unreliablw and actually costs more per week than driving into work.

I don't wNt a battery powered car as I like to take long drives and not be limited by a charge that'll run out in a hundred miles. I don't want to wait hours to recharge the fcuking thing either.

I don't want to live in "sustainable" communities with row upon row if houses. I want to live in the countryside and have some living space.

I want to heat my house with proven fuels such ad coal and oil and gas. I've tried the wood pellets and they were unreliablw and it's not nice to get up in the middle if winter to find that the heating didn't come on.

I want to travel on long haul flights and I don't care about my carbon footprint. If humans had never travelled, Africa would be even more overpopulated than it is now

So I'm a grown adult and I'll live my life the eat I see fit and I don't need some self righteous muppet telling me how I should "change my behaviour"

Dave, please tell me you don't live near a clock tower.

Kashkai

Actually there is a clock tower near me. Now where did I put my high powered rifle .

It might seem to be a rant but I'm sick to death of that fecking phrase "changing peoples behaviour" like we're all stupid simpletons who need our betters to guide us.

Oh and sorry for the spelling mistakes. I wrote the original thread on my phone while rocking about the train. I'll correct them when I get home.

AnonoBoy

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

Oh and sorry for the spelling mistakes. I wrote the original thread on my phone while rocking about the train. I'll correct them when I get home.

What the hell are you on the train for Dave?

PUBLIC TRANSPORT? Have they gotten to you already!!!!!?????

Kashkai

AnonoBoy wrote: »

What the hell are you on the train for Dave?

PUBLIC TRANSPORT? Have they gotten to you already!!!!!?????

Nope. I find a carriage packed full of people with no where to run an ideal place to preach my gospel down the barrel of my high powered rifle. There.might even be a Green supporter in here.

Oh and my car had a flat and I hadn't time to change it this morning.

Dionysus

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

At what point did the fascist take over the country? Ever goddam politician, lobby group etc bangs on about changing peoples behaviour. Examples:

change the motor tax system to make people buy diesel/small petrol engine cars to reduce our CO2 emmissions. As if this little country can change the planets climate all by itself. I'll buy whatever car u want so fcuk off greens.

Ban incandescent lightbulbs and only sell cfls. By the time the fcuking cfls have warmed up in my bathroom, I've alreay nearly cut my throat with the razor ad I couldn't see what I was doing. I don't care if cfls last longer, they give off sh1te light. Plus the mercury in them will cause more harm to the environment you green gobs1tes. Leave nevwith my old bulbs.

If I want to drive my car into wirk then that'sy choice. After all I pay tax and insurance on it so why shouldn't ivuse it? Public transport is dirty, unreliablw and actually costs more per week than driving into work.

I don't wNt a battery powered car as I like to take long drives and not be limited by a charge that'll run out in a hundred miles. I don't want to wait hours to recharge the fcuking thing either.

I don't want to live in "sustainable" communities with row upon row if houses. I want to live in the countryside and have some living space.

I want to heat my house with proven fuels such ad coal and oil and gas. I've tried the wood pellets and they were unreliablw and it's not nice to get up in the middle if winter to find that the heating didn't come on.

I want to travel on long haul flights and I don't care about my carbon footprint. If humans had never travelled, Africa would be even more overpopulated than it is now

So I'm a grown adult and I'll live my life the eat I see fit and I don't need some self righteous muppet telling me how I should "change my behaviour"

In fairness, as a nation our choices are collectively myopic, delusional and depressingly nouveau riche. This society is in the dark ages on issues as diverse as the environment, community pride, patriotism (in the best and most positive, selfless meaning of that word), civic responsibility and the real ability of this society to integrate non-nationals. There's very little substance. The litter across every community is just the most blatant reflection of this lack of pride.

Most of all, and this is becoming clearer and clearer to me, there is a huge lack of courage and integrity among the leadership of this representative democracy. Everybody seems to have given up on the concept of improvement, of making this society a fairer, more just, more cultured, more civically-engaged one.

Given all of this, there's a lot of room for changing the collective behaviour of this society and the individual behaviour of most people within it.

AnonoBoy

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

Nope. I find a carriage packed full of people with no where to run an ideal place to preach my gospel down the barrel of my high powered rifle. There.might even be a Green supporter in here.

Oh and my car had a flat and I hadn't time to change it this morning.

Yeah right green boy. Are you wearing sandals?

TheZohanS

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Are you wearing sandals?

He's not Jesus you know...

Morlar

Dionysus wrote: »

(blah blah elitist drivel blah blah) . .. .

Given all of this, there's a lot of room for changing the collective behaviour of this society and the individual behaviour of most people within it.

He's one of them !!

http://www.arachnoid.com/ChildrenOfNarcissus/images/sutherland_invasion_1978.jpg

AnonoBoy

TheZohan wrote: »

He's not Jesus you know...

Feckin' hippies. :mad:

Kasabian

OP , I like your attitude , if only it wasn't just a rant on a keyboard . I would turn over the TV from the footie to watch your hostage taking.

bonerm

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

At what point did the fascist take over the country?

Long time ago.

If I want to drive my car into wirk then that'sy choice. After all I pay tax and insurance on it so why shouldn't ivuse it? Public transport is dirty, unreliablw and actually costs more per week than driving into work.

I don't wNt a battery powered car as I like to take long drives and not be limited by a charge that'll run out in a hundred miles. I don't want to wait hours to recharge the fcuking thing either.

I don't want to live in "sustainable" communities with row upon row if houses. I want to live in the countryside and have some living space.

I want to heat my house with proven fuels such ad coal and oil and gas. I've tried the wood pellets and they were unreliablw and it's not nice to get up in the middle if winter to find that the heating didn't come on.

I want to travel on long haul flights and I don't care about my carbon footprint. If humans had never travelled, Africa would be even more overpopulated than it is now

Your attitude reminds me of that of a lot of Americans. An attitude that really came to the fore during the recent Health Reconcilliation Act. The attitude of "I can afford what I want, feck everyone & everything else" approach. Well personally I'd rather live in a nanny state than an American nightmare. Go live in somewhere like America if you feel you should have the right to do whatever you like so long as you can pay for it.

Dionysus

bonerm wrote: »

Long time ago.


Your attitude reminds me of that of a lot of Americans. An attitude that really came to the fore during the recent Health Reconcilliation Act. The attitude of "I can afford what I want, feck everyone & everything else" approach. Well personally I'd rather live in a nanny state than an American nightmare. Go live in somewhere like America if you feel you should have the right to do whatever you like so long as you can pay for it.

Fascinating photo. Who were they and where was it? (or was it a photoshop job?)

Overheal

Jev/N wrote: »

LOL at the spelling mistakes and random letters, you really must have written that in a rage! :pac:

Or asphyxiated...

Cheap Thrills!

The greens really do nothing to disprove the stereotype of environmentalists as deluded cranks.

I defy every one of their pathetic schemes with a great sense of relish.
I laugh at them sweating on their bikes in the cold and looking forward to their dinner of algae and their rainwater bath as I drive in bus lanes in my nice comfy, carbon spewing petrol car all the while chucking plastic bags into the ditches!

I look forward to getting home and turning on my dishwasher/washing machine/heating/kettle and oven all at the same time and then munching on some overpackaged battery farm chicken MMMM !!!

They can keep their water charges, electric cars, 30 kph speed limits and the rest of their imbecilic schemes.

They can all go screw themselves, actually that is probably part of their problem now that I think of it.

It wasn't me!

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

Nope. I find a carriage packed full of people with no where to run an ideal place to preach my gospel down the barrel of my high powered rifle. There.might even be a Green supporter in here.

Oh and my car had a flat and I hadn't time to change it this morning.

Ha! Wouldn't bet on it!

argonaut

I find the attitude of "me > the rest of society" a little obnoxious, tbh. Your entire post is written like a whining Daily Mail column.

The only thing missing was the phrase "political correctness gone mad". :rolleyes:

goose2005

Look, people don't consider the wide-ranging impact of what they do, and are unlikely to stop polluting unless it's incentivised to do so. Having said that, many "green" ideas are a crock - CFL bulbs will hardly make much difference, whining about planes is silly, and carbon footprints are idiotic.

They can keep their water charges, electric cars, 30 kph speed limits and the rest of their imbecilic schemes.

It costs money to supply water, and ireland's supply is stretched to the limit whenever we get a dry spell - why shouldn't people pay for it? And the 30 kph limit was a Labour initiative which the city council approved 34-3.

DonkeyStyle \o/

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

At what point did the fascist take over the country? Ever goddam politician, lobby group etc bangs on about changing peoples behaviour.

Well if they bring in a new tax and have a moral high-ground to back it up, then nobody can disagree with it, see?
If anyone objects, then the legions of correct-opinion-havers will come and attack you with their strawmen.
Being on the winning side of the debate whether you understand it or not is the new religion... as long as you agree with what most other people are saying, then you never have to defend your opinion and you look smart without having to think.

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

Ban incandescent lightbulbs and only sell cfls.

They buzz too... I have to keep flicking my lamp to stop the noise... can I report this as noise pollution?

Dionysus

goose2005 wrote: »

CFL bulbs will hardly make much difference

The power of one....

Kashkai

argonaut wrote: »

I find the attitude of "me > the rest of society" a little obnoxious, tbh. Your entire post is written like a whining Daily Mail column.

The only thing missing was the phrase "political correctness gone mad". :rolleyes:

But its not just me my friend. A lot of people can't stand the way this country has changed over the past 15 years. From discussing this topic with family, friends and work colleagues, a hell of a lot of people are sick of being lectured to by the moral high ground gobsh1tes who feel they can dictate to us like our very own thought police.

The plebs are told what to say, think and do and if anyone raises a hand to say otherwise, they're accused of being racist, a neanderthal, an agitator etc by the "betters" amongst us. Why don't you review a few pages of threads on this forum and you can see that underneath a lot of light hearted banter, the majority are fed up being told how to think, e.g. a very long thread on Pamela "I lied to Court about my child dying and got away with it" Izevbekhai who has, as a poor asylum seeker, managed to fight case after case in our Courts to stay here even after being proved a liar. If Sean Citizen did that, he'd:
(a) have a massive legal bill of close on a million, and
(b) he'd be locked up for perjury

But oh no, we can't say anything about the poor asylum seeker cause that would be racist.

AnonoBoy

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

But oh no, we can't say anything about the poor asylum seeker cause that would be racist.

Bet she's an electric powered asylum seeker too. Give me the old days of good ol' fashioned petrol powered immigrants.

Tonyandthewhale

I think you're stretching the idea of fascist there. I mean initiatives to raise the efficiency of your home heating and lighting system may seem superficially similar to initiatives to take over the world and kill all the jews, intellectuals and gays etc but if you look closely at motivations and methods of implementation behind such projects you might begin to see some subtle differences.

Also, you bang on about being an adult and not wanting other people tell you how to live your life yet you're happy to make unnecessary choices to constrain how other people live their lives.
Examples:
Insist on using excess electricity so the government (read tax-payers) have to invest in more generating infrastructure.
Use in-efficient cars, which means more imported fuel and increasingly dodgy balance of trade.
Rejecting sustainable communities so the countryside is blighted for the rest of us with your dream home and our tax-monies have to contribute towards extending services into remote areas (one-off houses ruined this country and our communities, bring back the village!)
Generally using up an undue share of the earth's natural resources so people in the third world have to put up with starving to death even more than usual.

argonaut

Simply put, guys, legislation for the good of society as a whole =/= fascist.

raah!

There's a difference between freedom of thought and freedom of speech.

Anyway, why don't you want to prevent harming the environment? It's nearly the same as harming people in the future. When viewed in that light, these incentives for being environmentally friendly are the same as laws against rape or something. hahahaha.

Liam Byrne

argonaut wrote: »

Simply put, guys, legislation for the good of society as a whole =/= fascist.

Ah, but the greens are about legislation for their view of what's good for us......

......just be glad of the clean air and water while you walk to work in the pissing rain due to a lack of transport options and expensive fuel, and starve because you can't afford anything to eat, and walk home to find yourself evicted by the banks that they bailed out.....

VERY good for society, all that.....

Tonyandthewhale wrote: »

I think you're stretching the idea of fascist there. I mean initiatives to raise the efficiency of your home heating and lighting system

Show me the "incentives".

An "incentive" is an option that improves the choice of the status quo......the Green's version of that offers few choices (no public transport) and is actually a - usually financial - disincentive to do the current option, rather than an "incentive" to do the new, preferred option.

I've said it before.....offer the cost-effective choice FIRST, and THEN maybe penalise the alternative.

But quit adding taxes and charges and screwing the public for the current unavoidable options.

stovelid

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

At what point did the fascists take over the country? Every goddam politician, lobby group etc bangs on about changing peoples behaviour. Examples:

change the motor tax system to make people buy diesel/small petrol engine cars to reduce our CO2 emissions. As if this little country can change the planet's climate all by itself. I'll buy whatever car I want so fcuk off greens.

Ban incandescent lightbulbs and only sell cfls. By the time the fcuking cfls have warmed up in my bathroom, I've already nearly cut my throat with the razor as I couldn't see what I was doing. I don't care if cfls last longer, they give off sh1te light. Plus the mercury in them will cause more harm to the environment you green gobs1tes. Leave me with my old bulbs.

If I want to drive my car into work then that's my choice. After all I pay tax and insurance on it so why shouldn't I use it? Public transport is dirty, unreliable and actually costs more per week than driving into work.

I don't want a battery powered car as I like to take long drives and not be limited by a charge that'll run out in a hundred miles. I don't want to wait hours to recharge the fcuking thing either.

I don't want to live in "sustainable" communities with row upon row of houses. I want to live in the countryside and have some living space.

I want to heat my house with proven fuels such as coal and oil and gas. I've tried the wood pellets and they were unreliable and it's not nice to get up in the middle of winter to find that the heating didn't come on.

I want to travel on long haul flights and I don't care about my carbon footprint. If humans had never travelled, Africa would be even more overpopulated than it is now

So I'm a grown adult and I'll live my life the way I see fit and I don't need some self righteous muppet telling me how I should "change my behaviour"

Just hold on until they can harness rage as a viable energy source and you'll be laughing.

Well, not laughing that much, but you know what I mean.

InkSlinger67

Somewhere, somehow a semi-naked native American is shedding a tear while reading this thread

Son Of A Vidic

Maybe it's time the muppet politicians running the country, changed their behaviour instead. But how can we help them achieve that though??
Hang on, wait a minute.

* Puts ammo clip into assault rifle *

Morlar

InkSlinger67 wrote: »

Somewhere, somehow a semi-naked native American is shedding a tear while reading this thread

a) ran out of coke
b) prostitute is dead
c) his casino isnt making as much what with the recession ?

Capt'n Midnight

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

At what point did the fascists take over the country? Every goddam politician, lobby group etc bangs on about changing peoples behaviour. Examples:

..

I'll buy whatever car I want so fcuk off greens.

...
If I
...
I
...
I ...
I ...

I...

So I'm a grown adult and I'll live my life the way I see fit and I don't need some self righteous muppet telling me how I should "change my behaviour"

If you were the only person that wouldn't be a problem

But you live in a society, and you have an impact on others. They have rights too.

However, if you promise not to have any children then then your impact on the rest of us will be limited at least.

Bodhisopha

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

didn't come on.

I want to travel on long haul flights and I don't care about my carbon footprint. If humans had never travelled, Africa would be even more overpopulated than it is now

So I'm a grown adult and I'll live my life the way I see fit and I don't need some self righteous muppet telling me how I should "change my behaviour"

I'm not sure what you're getting at there. Are you referring to the infamous slave planes?

Jev/N

Bodhisopha wrote: »

I'm not sure what you're getting at there. Are you referring to the infamous slave planes?

I think he's on about the original super-continent thingy

Kashkai

Ok so I've annoyed the "we must all conform to the inclusive Eco friendly society idea" a la the Greens/Duncan Stewart types. Funny how in my everyday life, I don't meet the "I love using CFL bulbs" people or the "bring on the water rates" people or the "I want a carbon tax" people. I guess they're all too busy waiting to attack a "Denier" like me who doesn't give any credence to their global warming bs (whoops after the coldest winter in years we'll have to change that to something else, I know call it climate change).

Freedom of choice was once a cornerstone of democracy but evidently that's been pushed under the carpet by those who insist on everyone conforming to the green agenda. Well with 2 per cent if the popular opinion polls, they've got the nation behind them.

Prosperous Dave

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

Ok so I've annoyed the "we must all conform to the inclusive Eco friendly society idea" a la the Greens/Duncan Stewart types. Funny how in my everyday life, I don't meet the "I love using CFL bulbs" people or the "bring on the water rates" people or the "I want a carbon tax" people. I guess they're all too busy waiting to attack a "Denier" like me who doesn't give any credence to their global warming bs (whoops after the coldest winter in years we'll have to change that to something else, I know call it climate change).

Freedom of choice was once a cornerstone of democracy but evidently that's been pushed under the carpet by those who insist on everyone conforming to the green agenda. Well with 2 per cent if the popular opinion polls, they've got the nation behind them.

Glenn Beck?

ScumLord

I'm all for saving the planet but at this stage I just don't see it happening, we've all but ran out of time. I think it's one of those lessons that we as a species just needs to learn the hard way. That's why I've given up on environmentalism it's pointless as I can't fix the problem "the power of one" was just a distraction that the corporations and government puppets threw us while they sucked up the last of the resources.

You can have all the freedom of choice you want but don't start crying when those choices come back to bite you on the arse and that will happen.

argonaut

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

Ok so I've annoyed the "we must all conform to the inclusive Eco friendly society idea" a la the Greens/Duncan Stewart types. Funny how in my everyday life, I don't meet the "I love using CFL bulbs" people or the "bring on the water rates" people or the "I want a carbon tax" people. I guess they're all too busy waiting to attack a "Denier" like me who doesn't give any credence to their global warming bs (whoops after the coldest winter in years we'll have to change that to something else, I know call it climate change).

*banging head off wall*

topper75

I spent a fortnight in India lately on the roads. Take it from me - a person in Ireland subscribing to the Power of One is a hilarious joke from that perspective, and now we have a volcano in our neck of the woods. Lightbulbs my ass.

Anyway the Greens are already a historical footnote. Watch the environmental policies that FG plan if you want to discuss something relevant. They will be what matters next (I am not an FGer myself - just pointing out the realpolitik).

Hugo Drax

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

At what point did the fascists take over the country? Every goddam politician, lobby group etc bangs on about changing peoples behaviour. Examples:

change the motor tax system to make people buy diesel/small petrol engine cars to reduce our CO2 emissions. As if this little country can change the planet's climate all by itself. I'll buy whatever car I want so fcuk off greens.

Ban incandescent lightbulbs and only sell cfls. By the time the fcuking cfls have warmed up in my bathroom, I've already nearly cut my throat with the razor as I couldn't see what I was doing. I don't care if cfls last longer, they give off sh1te light. Plus the mercury in them will cause more harm to the environment you green gobs1tes. Leave me with my old bulbs.

If I want to drive my car into work then that's my choice. After all I pay tax and insurance on it so why shouldn't I use it? Public transport is dirty, unreliable and actually costs more per week than driving into work.

I don't want a battery powered car as I like to take long drives and not be limited by a charge that'll run out in a hundred miles. I don't want to wait hours to recharge the fcuking thing either.

I don't want to live in "sustainable" communities with row upon row of houses. I want to live in the countryside and have some living space.

I want to heat my house with proven fuels such as coal and oil and gas. I've tried the wood pellets and they were unreliable and it's not nice to get up in the middle of winter to find that the heating didn't come on.

I want to travel on long haul flights and I don't care about my carbon footprint. If humans had never travelled, Africa would be even more overpopulated than it is now

So I'm a grown adult and I'll live my life the way I see fit and I don't need some self righteous muppet telling me how I should "change my behaviour"

Thoroughly agree with this gentlemans sentiments.

I think the whole country wishes the Green Party would fcuk off at this stage....

They'll get their come-uppance at the next election.

funk-you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no6-vsHgHJg

I'm with you OP.

-Funk

conorhal

I have an issue with 'lifestyle taxation', for starters it's not very equitable and whenever governments meddle, by imposing finger wagging proscriptive taxation it rarely works. All it tends to do is annoy everybody and often has unintended consequences that are detremental to us all.
Just look at the massive tariffs on cigarettes. Net result: A minor downward trend in smokers, that was quickly reversed, and a lot of criminals that got very rich when they realized that they could make more money smuggling cigarettes than they could from cocaine (true) and with far less risk, because ciggs are not classed as a class A drug and the penalties are far less punitive.
I jsut wish the government would just stick to attempting to provide quality services to the public for a while and give us a legislative break, because whenever they get involved in social engineering it's usually an expensive disaster that leaves everybody exasperated and buried up to their balls in bureaucracy

Global warming is a prime example of this. All governments have achieved as far as I can see are tones of carbon in the atmosphere as they jet from conference to conference and a lucrative new trade in carbon quotas that are a detrimental form or wealth transfer from over consuming nations paying the third world not to develop. Brilliant.
IMHO If we funneled the billions spent each year by governments on carbon trading into research universities and private R&D companies to investigate alternative energy, we would probably get a cheap, creative and usable supply of renewable energy in a timely fashion that we would all be gagging to get our hands on. Instead we just get expensive and pointless 'policy', which seems to be the only thing that governments actually seem capable of producing effectively these days.

seraphimvc

Dionysus wrote: »

In fairness, as a nation our choices are collectively myopic, delusional and depressingly nouveau riche. This society is in the dark ages on issues as diverse as the environment, community pride, patriotism (in the best and most positive, selfless meaning of that word), civic responsibility and the real ability of this society to integrate non-nationals. There's very little substance. The litter across every community is just the most blatant reflection of this lack of pride.

Most of all, and this is becoming clearer and clearer to me, there is a huge lack of courage and integrity among the leadership of this representative democracy. Everybody seems to have given up on the concept of improvement, of making this society a fairer, more just, more cultured, more civically-engaged one.

Given all of this, there's a lot of room for changing the collective behaviour of this society and the individual behaviour of most people within it.

the way people ignore your very well put 'essay' regarding the problems in the country made me head-scratching.

i find it in real life too(not saying internet is not real but ya get what i mean), people are autofilter whats the problems/truths when you told them and repeating the their same whining all the time.

i remember an wise old man once told me: people in tis country whine alot but they never take action to make a chance. so true when i think back of it:p

and for OP tho,
i do agree most of the points you said :P they really have too many BS rules/changes and they are keep coming too.

while i agree they are right in the direction of 'changing people behaviour' ,people have so much too change in order to improve this country and those politicians are the first one in the queue.

topper75

conorhal wrote: »

Just look at the massive tariffs on cigarettes.

The govt pays all that money back to smokers later. But not in a good way.

redeight

What I find most depressing about this sort of thread is the lack of foresight.
We are walking into a massive energy crisis, just look at the cost of oil etc. If changes are not made we will soon be right up sh!t creek. Then the demands to be allowed to do what you want will mean nothing unless you are very rich.
Its a bit like what just happened to the economy. People wanted it all and now they are stuffed.
I do agree, however that politicians are taking advantage of this situation to stick it to the common man (as usual).
The thing is energy efficiency and a good life are not mutually exclusive. Its almost as if there is a divide and conquer plan ( conspiracy !!!??!?? ) afoot.
Personally I heat my home with a heatpump and I greatly enjoy my cheaply heated comfortable home. I am much happier spending the money I save on things that I want. ( like sandals, natural yogurt, muesli and pan pipes ; )

redeight

I also buy incense sticks and a kaftan.:eek: