Selling your music on CD

PaulBrewer

Over the last while there have been various threads relating to CD duplication etc (in fact there's one today)

For those of you who have released CDs what sort of Sales did you get ?

Did you get Distribution and how much was it ?

Any luck with shops taking them ?

Was it a single or an album ?

Would you do it again ?

maccored

For those of you who have released CDs what sort of Sales did you get ?

Not much

Did you get Distribution and how much was it ?

We did manage to get a mobile distribution deal which was worldwide. These things are useless though without someone constantly pushing the distribution company.

Any luck with shops taking them ?

Didnt really try though we put the release into shops ourselves in the SE

Was it a single or an album ?
Album

Would you do it again ?
Never - not unless there was proper distroand a budget for advertising.

PaulBrewer

maccored wrote: »

For those of you who have released CDs what sort of Sales did you get ?

Not much

Did you get Distribution and how much was it ?

We did manage to get a mobile distribution deal which was worldwide. These things are useless though without someone constantly pushing the distribution company.

Any luck with shops taking them ?

Didnt really try though we put the release into shops ourselves in the SE

Was it a single or an album ?
Album

Would you do it again ?
Never - not unless there was proper distroand a budget for advertising.

Interesting reply - and in line with anecdotal evidence I've heard too.

MilanPan!c

We recently told a US label to feck off because they wanted to put our CDs in 10k shop in the states but would only promote in a tenth of them...

Quick way to get in real debt.

The point is there's no point being in shops if no one knows who you are.

Better off just getting them in a few shops, but sell a LOT through those...people will actually notice that...

seannash

do people really go out and shop for cds anymore?
surely a search on the internet followed by a download is the norm these days.

i honestly think that if bands want a demo to hand out they should have there tracks on a little usb hardrive whic has all there songs preloaded onto it with there logo on the hardrive itself and contat details.

ive gotten a few samplers like this for labels and i still use the harddrives to this day

maccored

i still think playing online webgigs is the ideal free promotion. I only know of one irish band doing that regularly.

MilanPan!c

maccored wrote: »

i still think playing online webgigs is the ideal free promotion. I only know of one irish band doing that regularly.

Close, the best free promotion would be 'accidentally' running over the board of AIB in your band van.

maccored

naw, then I'd have to pay for the van repairs. Sprinters arent cheap to fix.

MilanPan!c

maccored wrote: »

naw, then I'd have to pay for the van repairs. Sprinters arent cheap to fix.

The cost would be balanced out by all the free pints you'd get for the rest of your lives.

PMI

Im working something out with IRMA and IMRO etc.. at moment and the uk side of things to, well... let me explain.

We're working with Brewer on a track at the moment and are releasing that and hopefully another early summer.

6 gigs that week and one of them is a festival in cork with 10k people of which we are closing the festival we want to create an outdoor store (merch etc..) hosted by a record shop in cork who will collect sales of the single and be counted toward chart position, we are trying to work out independant adjudicators etc... so no one can fiddle so they will let it through, Its not a NO yet and they are being helpful and are willing to work on it as its kinda new so fingers crossed.

so digi sales etc.. too we hope it should be a good

one of the main probs is the delay of getting the sales counted as this fest is on a friday ?!?

anyway just thought I would share, and then after I can revisit this thread and say hey we sold 3 CD's and 1 came back for refund hahahah

Neurojazz

seannash wrote: »

do people really go out and shop for cds anymore?

Stand in a HMV and watch what people buy.

old gregg

For those of you who have released CDs what sort of Sales did you get ?
via the web, not very many. At live performances maybe 10-20 an event
Did you get Distribution and how much was it ?
Never spent any real effort on this. That may change with the current CD now that I have time to think about it.
Any luck with shops taking them ?
Not a lot of point I reckon. The stuff I do (field recording based ambient) would be pretty much a minority taste that shops see little point in stocking.
Was it a single or an album ?
Album x6
Would you do it again ?
I would and will. The albums never in themselves earn me real money, in most cases I'll just break even. I figured that out many years ago and am cool with it. What they do achieve is that they get me access to doing live performances in interesting places. That's where it pays for itself and where I'm happy.

That's the story, morning glory

MrStuffins

seannash wrote: »

do people really go out and shop for cds anymore?
surely a search on the internet followed by a download is the norm these days.

i honestly think that if bands want a demo to hand out they should have there tracks on a little usb hardrive whic has all there songs preloaded onto it with there logo on the hardrive itself and contat details.

ive gotten a few samplers like this for labels and i still use the harddrives to this day

Am i right in thinking this would be very expensive?

SeanHurley

MilanPan!c wrote: »

We recently told a US label to feck off because they wanted to put our CDs in 10k shop in the states but would only promote in a tenth of them...

Dude, I am not calling your character into judgment here at all believe me, but, how the heck are you getting all this label interest?? I am really interested cos like we've been chipping away for a fair bit now with some moderate success and never had a whiff of a label. Just from your myspace yis don't seem to be gigging that much etc. Fair play to ya an all, I am just genuinely interested.

MilanPan!c wrote: »

The point is there's no point being in shops if no one knows who you are.

Agree 100%

MilanPan!c wrote: »

Better off just getting them in a few shops, but sell a LOT through those...people will actually notice that...

Not in my experience, let me explain: selling in this way means you are going the independent record shop route. Independent record shops are not automatically counted toward the charts - for the very reason you suggest. It would be very easy to skew the national charts if say a band from Galway went out and got a campaign going to buy 1000 copies of the their single from Zhivagos. By these numbers they would most likely have a top 30 if not top 20 single on their hands. However, this is not representative of the "national" charts, therefore only a selection of the independent record stores are actually counted. Large sales from a small number of stores is seen as an anomoly.

There really is no get rich quick scheme to "making it". It is hard work, gigging in sh#t holes, being good and haveing good songs. IMO no amount of silver tounged bluffing will get you to the hallowed ground of "making it". Industry people have seen all the tricks and don't want to know.

My apologies if this has come across as agressive (it is not intended to be)

Rockshamrover

True enough, if the songs don't stand up on their own merits you're wasting your time money and effort.

MilanPan!c

SeanHurley wrote: »

Dude, I am not calling your character into judgment here at all believe me, but, how the heck are you getting all this label interest?? I am really interested cos like we've been chipping away for a fair bit now with some moderate success and never had a whiff of a label. Just from your myspace yis don't seem to be gigging that much etc. Fair play to ya an all, I am just genuinely interested.




Agree 100%



Not in my experience, let me explain: selling in this way means you are going the independent record shop route. Independent record shops are not automatically counted toward the charts - for the very reason you suggest. It would be very easy to skew the national charts if say a band from Galway went out and got a campaign going to buy 1000 copies of the their single from Zhivagos. By these numbers they would most likely have a top 30 if not top 20 single on their hands. However, this is not representative of the "national" charts, therefore only a selection of the independent record stores are actually counted. Large sales from a small number of stores is seen as an anomoly.

There really is no get rich quick scheme to "making it". It is hard work, gigging in sh#t holes, being good and haveing good songs. IMO no amount of silver tounged bluffing will get you to the hallowed ground of "making it". Industry people have seen all the tricks and don't want to know.

My apologies if this has come across as agressive (it is not intended to be)

If you want a longer answer PM me, but in brief:

I was signed to a feeder label of Sony in the UK, during the time that deal was a go I met a ton of people that liked what I did... I kept in touch with them and they are still interested.

I also used to have more material up that various parties approached me about licensing, those people are also still interested

I was in reasonably successful bands in the US and met a lot o people hrougg that; some of them are interested

I take every opportunity I see and I work my ass off to make material that people (including me) like.

I'll give you an example, I have started working with a UK producer that was randomly soliciting Irish acts... He told me that he heard many dozens of demos and mine was one o he few that jumped out.

I also just got mentioned in the Irish Times for no reason except that James Carroll likes the songs...

So I'm doing it with connections, hard work, a good attitude and good material.

No big secrets.

The US label in question ha approached me ages ago because my UK soliciter told the owner about me... I tried to negotiate a smaller more directed release, they refused and I told them no thanks.

As for gigs, I have said many times and I stand by this now, we'll only play paid (guaranteed) gigs or industry gigs.

The rest of it is a joke IMO. I've paid my dues and have no interest in trying to collect meaningless favours.

Not being conceited, but this is working for me, so I'm not palnning on changing.

And IMO, it's not Hard to get shops to carry your ****, it's hard to SELL ****, period.

If you can sell a few thousands CDs through 10 shops then people will come knocking.

PaulBrewer

seannash wrote: »

do people really go out and shop for cds anymore?

Indeed .....

It doesn't stop lads trying to make them though.

SeanHurley

MilanPan!c wrote: »

If you want a longer answer PM me, but in brief:

I was signed to a feeder label of Sony in the UK, during the time that deal was a go I met a ton of people that liked what I did... I kept in touch with them and they are still interested.

I also used to have more material up that various parties approached me about licensing, those people are also still interested

I was in reasonably successful bands in the US and met a lot o people hrougg that; some of them are interested

I take every opportunity I see and I work my ass off to make material that people (including me) like.

I'll give you an example, I have started working with a UK producer that was randomly soliciting Irish acts... He told me that he heard many dozens of demos and mine was one o he few that jumped out.

I also just got mentioned in the Irish Times for no reason except that James Carroll likes the songs...

So I'm doing it with connections, hard work, a good attitude and good material.

No big secrets.

The US label in question ha approached me ages ago because my UK soliciter told the owner about me... I tried to negotiate a smaller more directed release, they refused and I told them no thanks.

As for gigs, I have said many times and I stand by this now, we'll only play paid (guaranteed) gigs or industry gigs.

The rest of it is a joke IMO. I've paid my dues and have no interest in trying to collect meaningless favours.

Not being conceited, but this is working for me, so I'm not palnning on changing.

And IMO, it's not Hard to get shops to carry your ****, it's hard to SELL ****, period.

If you can sell a few thousands CDs through 10 shops then people will come knocking.

Fair dos! It was just under your riot tapes moniker it seems like you have only 2 songs and no gigs yet you were getting US label interest. It piqued my interest because it seems like you had worked out the meaning of life

Under what moniker did you sign with Sony? What happened there?

seannash

MrStuffins wrote: »

Am i right in thinking this would be very expensive?

not sure id imagine it would be more expensive than a cd but its more memorable than a cd.

check out sites like this one

http://www.customusb.com/

better having 100 memorable marketing tools than 500 cds that will be tossed aside and forgotten about.
even if it is more expensive its got aq certain kitch factor.you might not make as much profit as you would selling a cd but your not doing this for the money right:D(j/k)

Rockshamrover

seannash wrote: »

not sure id imagine it would be more expensive than a cd but its more memorable than a cd.

check out sites like this one

http://www.customusb.com/

better having 100 memorable marketing tools than 500 cds that will be tossed aside and forgotten about.
even if it is more expensive its got aq certain kitch factor.you might not make as much profit as you would selling a cd but your not doing this for the money right:D(j/k)

And more collectable, if you do happen to hit the big time:D

MilanPan!c

SeanHurley wrote: »

Fair dos! It was just under your riot tapes moniker it seems like you have only 2 songs and no gigs yet you were getting US label interest. It piqued my interest because it seems like you had worked out the meaning of life

Under what moniker did you sign with Sony? What happened there?

It was under TRT/Chris O'Brien (technically).

The singer had a nervous breakdown and moved to Brighton.

I then spent years looking for a replacement and moved country.

Then I spent another year here (happily) dealing with a new son.

After that, I started the audition process again and tried dozens more people until I found my "one".

Then I cranked up all my old connectons and started recording.

That was January.

We're going into the studio with our new producer in two weeks to remix/re-record vox and drums (and maybe some real orchestration) for our song Everything Is Local.

I'm also recording music for two more songs.

We're planning on recording about 5 and letting labels fight over it.

I've been here before and refuse to make the same mistakes again, you know?

galwaybabe

MilanPan!c wrote: »

It was under TRT/Chris O'Brien (technically).

The singer had a nervous breakdown and moved to Brighton.

I then spent years looking for a replacement and moved country.

Then I spent another year here (happily) dealing with a new son.

After that, I started the audition process again and tried dozens more people until I found my "one".

Then I cranked up all my old connectons and started recording.

That was January.

We're going into the studio with our new producer in two weeks to remix/re-record vox and drums (and maybe some real orchestration) for our song Everything Is Local.

I'm also recording music for two more songs.

We're planning on recording about 5 and letting labels fight over it.

I've been here before and refuse to make the same mistakes again, you know?

How does one go about putting your material in the position that labels get to decide to fight over it or not? Just about to embark upon this releasing stuff lark and would love to know how to get their attention

MrStuffins

MilanPan!c wrote: »

We're planning on recording about 5 and letting labels fight over it.

Love it!

SeanHurley

MilanPan!c wrote: »

We're planning on recording about 5 and letting labels fight over it.

I've been here before and refuse to make the same mistakes again, you know?

Are the songs you've been posting here part of the 5? Who ya getting to produce?

Best of luck with it all dude and I hope it all works out as planned. Do you ever see yourself taking this on the road and gigging? Sort of halfway getting back to the OP I think there has been a shift in the importance put on cd sales. IMO the sale of CDs/music is now there to support/promote a tour where previously it was the tour that promoted the sale of the CD.

MilanPan!c

galwaybabe wrote: »

How does one go about putting your material
in the position that labels get to decide to *fight over it or not?
Just about to embark upon this releasing stuff lark and would love to
know how to get their attention

It's not easy, but the trick is more about having material that is good enough.

I know that sounds crazy, but labels are essentially trying to sell Coke or Pepsi.
But of course, Coke and Pepsi are in every household.

So, use this info to your advantage. Try and find a way to make yourself stick out a bit.

The people I met in Boston I met from doing a few things:

- We started a mini-festival and grew it as big as possible to ensure
it got as much publicity as possible. BY the 4th year it ran 3 days,
had 50 or so bands and the last night was simulcast on (local) TV and
radio. Talk about good publicity. That showed business people we were
business minded, etc. I must've met two dozen label people through
that.

- My next band wrote very catchy material and I used all my contacts
to get it out there. IT was punk-ish though, so te appeal was a bit
limited. That being said, we had in our stable a fashion designer, two
graphic designers, a manager a sound guy and a few web folks. This
meant that we could deliver a consistent image and could produce a
sale-able product.

Both of these bands, though, got something VERY wrong. We believed
that if we busted our ass playing live and touring, success would
follow.

My god.

One thing I noticed was that, occasionally a new band would show up on the scene, fully formed. No one really knew them and they weren't playing the same, "pay your dues" games.

We all scoffed, but guess what. Those were often the bands that "got the farthest".

And you know why?

Instead of spending 8 hours a week practising for a show that no one important would attend (though it would be fun and make them a few bucks) they spent that time contacting labels, getting media attention, etc. So, when they played their FIRST show, it was full of people WANTING to see them... and full of label folks who wanted to
capitalise on this new thing.

But remember, that only works if the whole package is there:

You have to look and act the part. You have to have the songs and you have to work hard! I am up 3-4 days a week until 2AM working on stuff.

Bands need "the guy" that takes care of things and they need a vision which isn't clouded by "keeping friends happy" and musical compromise.

If you write the songs, you need to be able to spot and implement good suggestions, but also dismiss the bad ones. Too many good songs are
ruined by compromise.

This is one reason I didn't put together a "band" this time around. **** it. I don't need 5 cooks ruining the soup.

I have a number of people I trust that I get feedback from and then I ask strangers... strangers rule because they're objective (from your perspective) AND because you can ignore them.

As ZXYoda has discovered though, most people have the same criticisms of your material; if you are open to listening you can make your songs better!

I know this is a bit rambling.

The point is simple. Be brave. Take those chances that seem ridiculous! Make a name for yourself. No one will help you succeed in less there's something in it for them, so treat yourself like a commodity. That's how labels and manager and clubs see you. There's no escape.


Lastly, think about this:

Being killer live only means you're killer live.

That doesn't translate to good material, or good self-promotion or a saleable image. SOOOOOOOOOO many famous bands are OK live. And so many unheard of bands are AMAZING live. There's very little connection between success and being good live.

Spend your time constructively.

Have a goal, then sit down with your band mates (if you have them) and make a list of all the things you could be doing to achieve that goal.

How many emails have you sent to labels in the last week?

What about labels in the UK?

France?

The US?


Why not?


If your material is interesting to them they WILL respond.

If it's not, so what. There's hundreds of labels. Try them all until you find a home.

And hey, if you can't get labels interested ... and if you're actually trying directly (instead of waiting for something to happen TO you) then look at your material.

Be honest with yourself.

I have written hundreds of songs in my life and right now there's maybe 14 I would let anyone hear.

Also, and I swear this is the last thing:

Learn about the industry as best you can, learn how it works and what the business is all about

AND

Learn other instruments or technology.

Learn how to use the web to promote.

If you don't you'll run into someone with the same quality material that has learned these things and that's one more point in their favour.


If anyone has specific questions, just PM me.

Now, coffee time!

MilanPan!c

SeanHurley wrote: »

Are the songs you've been posting here part of the 5? Who ya getting to produce?

Best of luck with it all dude and I hope it all works out as planned. Do you ever see yourself taking this on the road and gigging? Sort of halfway getting back to the OP I think there has been a shift in the importance put on cd sales. IMO the sale of CDs/music is now there to support/promote a tour where previously it was the tour that promoted the sale of the CD.

one will def be
another prolly will be
the third might


There's a record worth of stuff though, so we'll just keep recording, finding the strongest stuff.

The producers name is Tim Clarke, he's based in London, but also has a studio here.

His partner is a professional musician as well. Very cool talented guy. Anyway, we'll see.. Just another stepping stone.

As for live, yes, but not unless we're paid/for industry.

So basically, we'll let someone else get that going unless we need it for some reason.

Thanks for the good wishes!!!! Right back atcha!

---

BTW: To clarify, Tim isn't producing a record, he's producing demos to shop around.

I also have a few other folks shopping this stuff around.

Take every opportunity.

I won't be satisfied until I have a kickass record produced by someone I respect, being promoted all over.

I won't sign a deal that isn't backed up by a plan and I won't sign a deal with people w/o a track record or without a specific plan for us.

IF all of this means I never succeed, fine. But, I'm doing it my way this time.

SeanHurley

Well if the music doesn't work out you have a future in motivational speaking

MilanPan!c

SeanHurley wrote: »

Well if the music doesn't work out you have a future in motivational speaking

You're not the first person to say that! :P

Conviction is a big part of this. I mean, why the **** should anyone listen to you or me? You gotta have a bit of faith that your product is good. And then sell it like it's the BEST THING EVER!

You can pretend to be modest to the media, but man, if you REALLY think you're only OK, why would ANYONE care about you (not specifically you, of course).

And hey, I found out that we were already myspace buddies.

Did you do that? OR did I just stumble on you years ago?


One final piece of advice for all interested (feel free to ignore this, please):

Self-releasing records isn't a great idea.

It's ok, as a way to make some money, but really, I wouldn't (at this point) self-release more than a single.

Just keep refining your music with the idea that at least 50% of your tunes need to be saleable (to someone - not necessarily mainstream radio, but someone). I guarantee this will quickly prune the filler out of your repertoire.

This is another huge waste that comes from playing live and having to jump through stupid hoops.

"Let's see, we need to fill 45 mins, out set is 37 mins, so we can just throw in these two very mediocre songs."

Those two clunkers are often what's remembered and what makes people in the industry go, "they're not quite there yet".

Better to ONLY put out stuff you love.

It's hard to do, but the closer you get to following that rule, the more people will like your band.

PaulBrewer

galwaybabe wrote: »

Just about to embark upon this releasing stuff lark and would love to know how to get their attention

Be brilliant ....

PaulBrewer

MilanPan!c wrote: »

You're not the first person to say that! :P

Conviction is a big part of this. I mean, why the **** should anyone listen to you or me? You gotta have a bit of faith that your product is good. And then sell it like it's the BEST THING EVER!

You can pretend to be modest to the media, but man, if you REALLY think you're only OK, why would ANYONE care about you (not specifically you, of course).

And hey, I found out that we were already myspace buddies.

Did you do that? OR did I just stumble on you years ago?


One final piece of advice for all interested (feel free to ignore this, please):

Self-releasing records isn't a great idea.

It's ok, as a way to make some money, but really, I wouldn't (at this point) self-release more than a single.

Just keep refining your music with the idea that at least 50% of your tunes need to be saleable (to someone - not necessarily mainstream radio, but someone). I guarantee this will quickly prune the filler out of your repertoire.

This is another huge waste that comes from playing live and having to jump through stupid hoops.

"Let's see, we need to fill 45 mins, out set is 37 mins, so we can just throw in these two very mediocre songs."

Those two clunkers are often what's remembered and what makes people in the industry go, "they're not quite there yet".

Better to ONLY put out stuff you love.

It's hard to do, but the closer you get to following that rule, the more people will like your band.

Sound words to my mind.

jtsuited

great points by milan. now granted it's been a while since I've been around the rock/pop world but from what I can see, things are pretty much the same.

If you want to be successful (and by successful I mean in real terms, as in actually being able to make a living doing the music you want to do), you have to understand the industry.
And by understanding the industry, it does not mean going to name-dropper parties, and listening to insufferable gobsh1tes sh1te talk about the 'next big thing'. It's far easier than it looks.
Look at an artist (or band) that you regard as successful. Go digging deep into their history and find out what route they took. Remember, the route they took is most likely not the story that's in the public domain.

As in, the Arctic Monkeys did NOT become successful by promoting on myspace. There was a demo handed to someone somewhere and they passed it up the label food-chain to where the people with the cash and ability to do something heard it and liked it.
Yes they had a big following online, but that was merely a sweetener of the deal for the people who invested in them.
BTW, neither did Lily Allen (most of you know that but I had a student say 'look how big lily allen is and she started on myspace' about a month ago). She was born into a family of golden connections. Granted she's got talent, but the reason she's huge is because she could demonstrate that talent to 'People That Matter'.

I've seen first hand how the process works and incidentally an Irish band have just signed with one of the big four (and it's not Universal - isn't there some band that were posted on here who signed with them?).

The point is, until your gigs are paying a week's wages for the whole band, they're a waste of time and energy. Unless you are getting the 'People That Matter' to your gigs. In which case every show is really a game of playing them off each other.

MilanPan!c

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Sound words to my mind.

Thanks man; I'm just trying to help!

MilanPan!c

jtsuited wrote: »

great points by milan. now granted it's been a while since I've been around the rock/pop world but from what I can see, things are pretty much the same.

If you want to be successful (and by successful I mean in real terms, as in actually being able to make a living doing the music you want to do), you have to understand the industry.
And by understanding the industry, it does not mean going to name-dropper parties, and listening to insufferable gobsh1tes sh1te talk about the 'next big thing'. It's far easier than it looks.
Look at an artist (or band) that you regard as successful. Go digging deep into their history and find out what route they took. Remember, the route they took is most likely not the story that's in the public domain.

As in, the Arctic Monkeys did NOT become successful by promoting on myspace. There was a demo handed to someone somewhere and they passed it up the label food-chain to where the people with the cash and ability to do something heard it and liked it.
Yes they had a big following online, but that was merely a sweetener of the deal for the people who invested in them.
BTW, neither did Lily Allen (most of you know that but I had a student say 'look how big lily allen is and she started on myspace' about a month ago). She was born into a family of golden connections. Granted she's got talent, but the reason she's huge is because she could demonstrate that talent to 'People That Matter'.

I've seen first hand how the process works and incidentally an Irish band have just signed with one of the big four (and it's not Universal - isn't there some band that were posted on here who signed with them?).

The point is, until your gigs are paying a week's wages for the whole band, they're a waste of time and energy. Unless you are getting the 'People That Matter' to your gigs. In which case every show is really a game of playing them off each other.

Fantastic stuff!

This is what I keep saying:

Look at the big bands... they didn't get their through playing live or being on myspace (at least 99% of them).

Songs, attitude, work, connections, uniquely marketable "something" and on and on...

One decent recording of a special song in the right hands is worth a hundred headlining gigs.

The people that "make it happen" need to hear something they can sell.

That's the bottom line.

jtsuited

MilanPan!c wrote: »

The people that "make it happen" need to hear something they can sell.

Quoted for truth.

Now that's actually just the fundamental principle of it.

Either you're not getting it to the right people or it's something that the 'right people' can't sell.

End of story.

Too many times when I meet old rock'n'roll friends and I ask what they're up to they tell me about their next whelan's gig or their next gig playing support to a fairly well known act.

Never their release schedule for the next 18 months, or their sales figures based on regional demographics. Or the distribution deal they got sorted for their limited edtion 7" single complete with autographed doily.

Now as y'all know I'm not one for the whole 'let's get famous' idea. I'm talking about making your art succesful and fulfilling it's potential by reaching everybody who wants it.

Now at the risk of sounding like Paul, I think we should discuss the normal releasing trends of small bands nowadays. Here's something I think needs to be said.....

1. A bunch of 10 songs you like playing live that you recorded in a few days and mixed on a weekend IS NOT AN ALBUM!!!!!!!

2. A slimmed down version of this bunch of unrelated songs where you only include the ones that sound half-decent IS NOT AN EP!!!!!

3. Your audience's favourite track of the slimmed down bunch of songs (not an EP remember) accompanied by an acoustic stripped back sh1te version of one of your first songs performed live in a half empty venue, complete with crappy artwork released on itunes through an aggregator IS NOT A SINGLE.

Now technically you can call any piece of recorded music anything you want - album,mini album, EP, double LP, single, etc.... but there is a bit more to releasing music than that.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

thanks milan and JT for this very interesting thread.

can I ask a question - in your experienced opinions could you be potentially successful without ever playing a gig -

and ever having to play a gig after .


could you make a living or be susccessful as a pure studio head.

PaulBrewer

DaDumTish wrote: »

thanks milan and JT for this very interesting thread.

can I ask a question - in your experienced opinions could you be potentially successful without ever playing a gig -

and ever having to play a gig after .


could you make a living or be susccessful as a pure studio head.

Enya ?

MilanPan!c

DaDumTish wrote: »

thanks milan and JT for this very interesting thread.

can I ask a question - in your experienced opinions could you be potentially successful without ever playing a gig -

and ever having to play a gig after .


could you make a living or be susccessful as a pure studio head.

Rare, but not impossible. In fact probably more possible than only ever playing live.

In fact, now that I think about it, history is full of such bands, from people like Enya (never performed live) to even the Beatles.

Playing live is a great add for an existing product and a great cash cow if you're popular, but industry folks don't really haunt venues trying to find the next big thing any more. In my exprience.

In fact in my experience, bands almost always know label folks are going to be at a gig...

All people want is a product to sell... So people sell to weirdos, others to classical music fans, others to classic rock or folk fans, but in the end, it's about selling records and making money... Labels would go bust and musicians would change careers if there was no money involved.

jtsuited

ah but the problem is nowadays things are different.

Labels are signing more and more bands to 360 deals so the chances of only recording as a career are pretty slim.

MilanPan!c

jtsuited wrote: »

ah but the problem is nowadays things are different.

Labels are signing more and more bands to 360 deals so the chances of only recording as a career are pretty slim.

Agreed!!

Like I said, rare, but possible.

Very unlikely though... Artists need that live do-re-me.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

im thinking more as being a songwriter hoping to sell songs .

MilanPan!c

DaDumTish wrote: »

im thinking more as being a songwriter hoping to sell songs .

Hard to get into, but v good work if you can get it!

A cool goal though...

Bren Jacob

Interesting thread.
Some of the opinions I agree with, some I disagree with and some I just dont know enough about to have an opinion one way or t'other.

I'll spare you all the hard luck story but over the last couple of years Iv had some dealings with labels in the UK, major and indie and how they operate or at least how it operated in relation to the project I was involved with.

How the above statement ties into what Im doing now is that Im working with a new band (manager of sorts) and from what Iv seen over the last couple of years our plan of attack is to not fret over the need to have an album recorded early in the bands career.
We will release one of course but only when we believe we truely have enough quality tracks and not a day before!

We plan to release singles here every four or five months and hopefully like a snowball as it rolls downhill gradually build up some momentum.
At the same time when we have enough material of a high enough quality recorded I will look for a London based lawyer to prostitute himself on our behalf to the a&r heads and organise some UK dates with the hope that
a) the music is of a good enough quality to get the attention of the a&r heads
b) the lawyer has done his job properly and actually got the tracks to the people that count within the label hierarchy

Iv achieved **** all within the business to date so take it with a large pinch of salt but thats a rough outline of my plan of attack anyway for what it worth.

I'll let you all know how I get on!

MilanPan!c

Bren Jacob wrote: »

Interesting thread.
Some of the opinions I agree with, some I disagree with and some I just dont know enough about to have an opinion one way or t'other.

I'll spare you all the hard luck story but over the last couple of years Iv had some dealings with labels in the UK, major and indie and how they operate or at least how it operated in relation to the project I was involved with.

How the above statement ties into what Im doing now is that Im working with a new band (manager of sorts) and from what Iv seen over the last couple of years our plan of attack is to not fret over the need to have an album recorded early in the bands career.
We will release one of course but only when we believe we truely have enough quality tracks and not a day before!

We plan to release singles here every four or five months and hopefully like a snowball as it rolls downhill gradually build up some momentum.
At the same time when we have enough material of a high enough quality recorded I will look for a London based lawyer to prostitute himself on our behalf to the a&r heads and organise some UK dates with the hope that
a) the music is of a good enough quality to get the attention of the a&r heads
b) the lawyer has done his job properly and actually got the tracks to the people that count within the label hierarchy

Iv achieved **** all within the business to date so take it with a large pinch of salt but thats a rough outline of my plan of attack anyway for what it worth.

I'll let you all know how I get on!

That's all very sound IMO. Good plan.

Bren Jacob

Whats that old saying, the first casualty of war is the plan.......or something along those lines but cheers anyway.

MilanPan!c wrote: »

That's all very sound IMO. Good plan.