BMW 335ci or 335cd

jayok

I'm toying with replacing my current car with either of these (a 2nd-hand 07 is not too badly priced), I am well impressed with both models.

But my heart is dragging me towards the petrol one, my head diesel. I don't do huge mileage in the year (approx 6,000) so this would suggest petrol. However, I have this niggly feelign about the diesel.

The purchase price for both is similar and the tax is the same, obviously he diesel is more fuel efficient, but with such small milege per annum, it's not really the issue.

Anyone put me out of my misery?

TCP/IP

I am in the boat. If I did your milage go 335i for me it will be a 335d. Only problem none for sale with an Idrive and the Msport pack.

voxpop

Is there much difference in the fuel economy ? Do you mostly drive around town or N/M roads.

Cyrus

jayok wrote: »

I'm toying with replacing my current car with either of these (a 2nd-hand 07 is not too badly priced), I am well impressed with both models.

But my heart is dragging me towards the petrol one, my head diesel. I don't do huge mileage in the year (approx 6,000) so this would suggest petrol. However, I have this niggly feelign about the diesel.

The purchase price for both is similar and the tax is the same, obviously he diesel is more fuel efficient, but with such small milege per annum, it's not really the issue.

Anyone put me out of my misery?

there isnt even an argument here, the only reason to go diesel is mileage, the petrol is faster and sounds better and is pretty frugal for what it is, dont even think about it,

im also looking into these

Cyrus

voxpop wrote: »

People will say that the diesels are complicated and cost alot when things go wrong (turbo,etc), whereas the petrol being N/A should be more reliable, less things to go wrong. Not sure how true that is and how much its down to the servicing and oil used for the service.

petrol isnt n/a

voxpop

Cyrus wrote: »

petrol isnt n/a

Yeah - just found that out its a twin-turbo. Thought bimmers were historically n/a - guess not

jayok

Seems there's a few interested buyers for these.

Yeah, petrol is really winning me over. The torque on the diesel is hoot too.

Like TCP/IP it must have the Msport, it just doesn't look right without it.

As for turbo problems, both models have turbos, so I assume are similar to maintain.

TCP/IP

Both cars remapped are simply stunning. I had a go in a 335D with 400bhp and it was an animal.

Cyrus

voxpop wrote: »

Yeah - just found that out its a twin-turbo

well sequential actually but thats semantics

Cyrus

TCP/IP wrote: »

Both cars remapped are simply stunning. I had a go in a 335D with 400bhp and it was an animal.

must of had some serious engine work for 400bhp

jayok

TCP/IP wrote: »

Both cars remapped are simply stunning. I had a go in a 335D with 400bhp and it was an animal.

Wow, and they are bloody quick with any remapping.

Cyrus

there is plenty of interesting info here:

http://www.pistonheads.com/Gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=72&t=669833&nmt=BMW%20remapped%20335i%20Vs%20remapped%20335d

a 335d will require significant work to make 400bhp, the 335i less so, you would also have the issue of needing to limit the torque in the diesel at those kind of bhps

voxpop

Cyrus wrote: »

well sequential actually but thats semantics

Never said it was in Parallel :pac:


What car are you coming from OP ?

Tea 1000

Cyrus wrote: »

must of had some serious engine work for 400bhp

True, you don't get 400bhp from a re-map!
Go with the petrol.

jayok

voxpop wrote: »

What car are you coming from OP ?

Coming from a E46 325Ci. Isn't too shabby to move either But the 335 really blow me away.

voxpop

You'll prob get the same economy or pretty close with the 335i - dont think the diesel will save you that much tbh.

Probably down to whether you prefer the petrol or diesel power delivery

jayok

voxpop wrote: »

You'll prob get the same economy or pretty close with the 335i - dont think the diesel will save you that much tbh.

Probably down to whether you prefer the petrol or diesel power delivery

Economy isn't the issue, I think the petrol will win this.

bmw535d

id go the the diesal tbh but if you really dont care about economy then why not go for the petrol..both are rapid fast,you should push your budget to get an 08 for cheaper tax.

Cyrus

bmw535d wrote: »

id go the the diesal tbh but if you really dont care about economy then why not go for the petrol..both are rapid fast,you should push your budget to get an 08 for cheaper tax.

tax is only 300 quid cheaper tho isnt it? on the petrol anyway

RobAMerc

I can't say which I would go for having not driven either but on paper the Diesel seems to make more sense - it will be as fast in the real world as the petrol have better fuel consumption I imagine would hold its value better and be a nicer car about town having lots of low end grunt.

The petrol will ultimately be quicker - feel much smoother and better ( although the 6 pot diesel is pretty good ) and sing like a canary when its making all that power.

So I suggest you drive both and then decide.

Vertakill

My mother has a 535D touring with I/Drive and the M-Sport kit and a panoramic sunroof. Absolutely lovely car. It's really smooth throughout the power band and damn quick to get moving when you want it to.

The MPG is in around the 34 mark but she doesn't do long trips and she's got a bit of a lead foot at times. I would've thought the petrol would be significantly worse on short trips (but that's open for debate).

My only negative about it is the over sensitive steering, compared to my own car. But I'd imagine it's the same for both the petrol/diesel.


Might also be a bit hard to sell on the petrol later on I'd say with Ireland going nuts over diesels these days.

Cyrus

Vertakill wrote: »

My mother has a 535D touring with I/Drive and the M-Sport kit and a panoramic sunroof. Absolutely lovely car. It's really smooth throughout the power band and damn quick to get moving when you want it to.

The MPG is in around the 34 mark but she doesn't do long trips and she's got a bit of a lead foot at times. I would've thought the petrol would be significantly worse on short trips (but that's open for debate).

My only negative about it is the over sensitive steering, compared to my own car. But I'd imagine it's the same for both the petrol/diesel.


Might also be a bit hard to sell on the petrol later on I'd say with Ireland going nuts over diesels these days.

people will always want a 335i

Vertakill

Cyrus wrote: »

people will always want a 335i

Didn't say otherwise. Just said that I think the diesel might be easier to sell.

However, what I have noticed since that post is that I thought the OP was talking about the 5 series and not 3 series.


In that case, I'd probably go 335i and remap it.

TheBazman

I drive a 535d but do a lot of mileage. With your mileage you should go with the petrol. Don't worry about remapping for a couple of years. Plenty of poke for a few years to keep you happy.

986s

Hi,

Currently have a 335i which Ive had for nearly two years now and before I bought the i test drove the big d extensively. Both cars are equally as fast as each other so not much difference there (appreciate that the i is relatively easy to extract bigger bhp gains by re-mapping etc). As regards fuel economy I average approx 27-28 mpg and get approx 350 miles to a full tank (i.e. trip computer showing very little miles left- not when it lights up at 50 miles to go), can on a long run see early 30's which isnt too shabby considering Im running some engine management software:).

Why I picked the i (a rare manual one at that) over the d came down to the fact that I didnt get on with the auto box in the d- I felt removed from the action even though it was playstation easy to travel very quickly. Also most importantly was the sound the i produced when the salesman gave it some beans sold it to me.

Overall Ive been mightily impressed the the 335i which has a certain stealth factor about it when most other BMW's on the road seem to be 320d/520d. Both are great cars though and I think you would be very happy with either- test drive both to make up your own mind would be the best advice I'd give though. Best of luck either way.

Matt Simis

voxpop wrote: »

Yeah - just found that out its a twin-turbo. Thought bimmers were historically n/a - guess not

Not for a while.. ie the X6 is Forced Induction only, not a single NA lump in the line up of 5 engines.

MarkN

I've never driven the diesel but I did own the petrol. Quick car but I'd say the diesel isn't an awful lot slower, you've 20 bhp more in the petrol but a lot more torque so both would be fun.

The only thing obviously is that the petrol sounds a lot nicer... mine was auto, never used the paddles really but it worked really well with that power and an auto box.

I can't say I find the M3 much heavier on juice compared to the 335 which is weird!

Matt Simis

MarkN wrote: »

I can't say I find the M3 much heavier on juice compared to the 335 which is weird!

But an extremely damning statement on the 335i's MPG!

Personally Id be choosing the one or the other around planning modifications... Petrol to 400bhp or diesel with DMS map to 350 and 700nm torque....

Xpro

i would go wit diesel. i have driven both at many occassions and diesel wins hands down. 335i is quite heavy on fuel in comparison to 335/535d and aslo think about resale value. 335i`sare quite hard to move on.

copacetic

335i for sure. very similar cars, fuel doesn't come in to it at your mileage and the engine sound and seeing the rev needle spinning round the dial is a must in a car like that. 335i is are no harder to 'move on' than a 335d.

mickdw

People here are fooling themselves saying the petrol will be nearly as fuel efficient as the diesel. Not a hope in hell. That 335i will be crazy on petrol whereas the diesel will do mpg that would be acceptable to many many people.
The diesel on an 08+ plate is 630 to tax. That is the car which people will be lining up to buy when selling on.

Cyrus

mickdw wrote: »

People here are fooling themselves saying the petrol will be nearly as fuel efficient as the diesel. Not a hope in hell. That 335i will be crazy on petrol whereas the diesel will do mpg that would be acceptable to many many people.
The diesel on an 08+ plate is 630 to tax. That is the car which people will be lining up to buy when selling on.

he does low mileage, so the fuel costs wont be much of a factor and if a few quid in tax every year is what you base a decision like this on then why bother

mickdw

Cyrus wrote: »

he does low mileage, so the fuel costs wont be much of a factor and if a few quid in tax every year is what you base a decision like this on then why bother

I know what you are saying& if he really must have the petrol, well he wouldnt even be comsidering the diesel. The few quid tax will mean thousands knocked off future resale compared to the diesel if we are taking about 08> cars. If its older than that, well they both have the higher tax & in the case of an 07 car, the diesel would be a foolish buy IMO unless price strongly reflected the tax situation.

Matt Simis

mickdw wrote: »

I know what you are saying& if he really must have the petrol, well he wouldnt even be comsidering the diesel. The few quid tax will mean thousands knocked off future resale compared to the diesel if we are taking about 08> cars. If its older than that, well they both have the higher tax & in the case of an 07 car, the diesel would be a foolish buy IMO unless price strongly reflected the tax situation.

Yeah but you are correct, the 335d and 335i in the real world will get very different MPG to each other, I think its misleading to say they are similar.

Cyrus

mickdw wrote: »

I know what you are saying& if he really must have the petrol, well he wouldnt even be comsidering the diesel. The few quid tax will mean thousands knocked off future resale compared to the diesel if we are taking about 08> cars. If its older than that, well they both have the higher tax & in the case of an 07 car, the diesel would be a foolish buy IMO unless price strongly reflected the tax situation.

335i is 1,000 to tax, 335d is 630, how is 370 a year going to knock 1,000s off of the resale?

Xpro

either way if money is not an issue, why not buy an M3 instead:rolleyes:

Cyrus

Xpro wrote: »

either way if money is not an issue, why not buy an M3 instead:rolleyes:

e92 m3 will be 55-60k at least basically double the price:rolleyes:

mickdw

Because anyone with any sense will realise that the tax difference aplies to the whole life span of the car regardless of how long any particuar owner keeps it. So if the car is good for another 15 years, that is the cost that one should be looking at. So in effect, all else being equal, the petrol should be worth 5k less now due to the tax. I agree the figures here are not too bad compared to say an 08 v 07 335d & some people will be happy to pay the tax & not worry but again in the case of someone being undecided between the petrol & diesel, the tax cost & the mpg of the petrol will mean the petrol is worth significantly less in a few years & will have a smaller market as the higher mileage users wont consider the petrol

Cyrus

mickdw wrote: »

Because anyone with any sense will realise that the tax difference aplies to the whole life span of the car regardless of how long any particuar owner keeps it. So if the car is good for another 15 years, that is the cost that one should be looking at. So in effect, all else being equal, the petrol should be worth 5k less now due to the tax. I agree the figures here are not too bad compared to say an 08 v 07 335d & some people will be happy to pay the tax & not worry but again in the case of someone being undecided between the petrol & diesel, the tax cost & the mpg of the petrol will mean the petrol is worth significantly less in a few years & will have a smaller market as the higher mileage users wont consider the petrol

nope, but people who want the better car, and the lower mileage car will be looking for the petrol for that very reason,

also if you are talking about the life time tax differential then you need to be looking at the present values of the future cash flows, not the nominal difference multiplied by a number of years,

anyone i get the point you are making but i disagree, i think when the cars are 4-5 years old the differential in value between the i and d will be small or non existent

mickdw

Cyrus wrote: »

i think when the cars are 4-5 years old the differential in value between the i and d will be small or non existent

I hold ya to that in about 3 years time

Leonard Hofstadter

Let's face it anyone who is really concerned by economy will be after a 320d or a lower powered one. A 335 is for someone who wants power, and lots of it:)!

If you're going to do something daft you might as well do it properly.
That means buying the petrol one;)!

I don't think that people are going to be massively interested in a 335d either. They're both going to be hard cars to sell on secondhand.

The petrol with its ultra low boost turbos will also be much more reliable, we all know BMW's track record with turbos in their diesel engines and a 335d has 2 of them so it's twice as likely to blow a turbo, so on balance for someone doing low mileage it will probably be cheaper to buy and run the petrol.

Also, very few engines sound as good as a BMW 6 cylinder petrol does when it's on song, that'll make up for the inferior economy too:)!

robbie99

An 08 335d will be €1,200 a year cheaper to run than the 335i - average mileage.

Leonard Hofstadter

But the OP has said he'll be doing very low mileage?

Anyway, all you need is one turbo to go in a 335d(and let's face it the chances of it blowing a turbo are very high, you don't buy a car with 286 bhp to just go to the shops and back) and all your savings will be quickly be spend on repairing the turbo, and more besides.

There's also positive crankcase breathers, swirl flaps, and very expensive common rail injectors that fail far too frequently.

I know the petrol being direct injection may well have problems with injectors as well (the 4 pot petrols break down all the time these days because the coils go and then the injectors go) and there is a class action in the US over defective fuel pumps in the 335i but I have never heard of either giving trouble outside of the US, where they use much lower octane fuel than we do, and DI petrols need high octane stuff to work properly.

robbie99

captainspeed wrote: »

But the OP has said he'll be doing very low mileage?

Fair enough. OP said he'd do about 6,000 miles a year. At that mileage he's unlikely to run into engine problems

An 08 335d will be over €800 cheaper a year to run than a 335i, 6k miles per year.

Shane732

Regardless of which you buy please buy an M-Sport version.

I hate seeing a 335 SE/ES. When you're spending that type of money why wouldn't you buy an M-Sport!!!!

Hogzy

captainspeed wrote: »

Anyway, all you need is one turbo to go in a 335d(and let's face it the chances of it blowing a turbo are very high, you don't buy a car with 286 bhp to just go to the shops and back) and all your savings will be quickly be spend on repairing the turbo, and more besides.

There are 2 turbos in the petrol aswell :rolleyes:

jayok

Well I'm going for the petrol. Having driven the two again, the 335i seems a better fit for me - given my mileage.

Not really pushed on resale, that a later problem. I'd rather buy the car I want now and not worry about the next purchaser. There's a tiny market for these type of cars anyway and a relatively low mileage one with FSH should sell.

Re the M3, that's no just a bit beyond the budget, but well beyond it! TBH I really do like the 335i and while it's not the M3, it's bloody quick.

As for 08 and 07, the difference in tax (circa €300) doesn't justify the extra cost for an 08. Say I keep it three years, that's a difference of €900 in tax. I have bigger costs to deal with after this time.

Finally, the 335ci will have to be an M-sport. Like Shane732 said, it just doesn't look right without the kit.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

I own a 335i SE for the last two years. My MPG averge according to the computer since I owned it is 27 MPG mixed driving which is really excellent for this level of performance. It get mid 30's on long runs. I also have a 3.0d X5 and the economy is significantly worse around 25 MPG (I know the weight and all that). I drove the 335d before buying the 335i. Its a cracking engine, however the car is heavier, the stats are worse from 0-60 however the 80-120 stats on the d are very good. I have the 335i tuned to around 350 bhp and about 60 more torque than standard and I will tell you its plenty fast and acceleration is scarly relentless to 155 Mph+. This is from a JB+ tuning box which is removable and cost 600 USD.

My problems with the d was...
1. The sound is like a bag of hammers compared to the petrol.
2. The weight of the engine and steering feel is duller.
3. Second hand they tend to have higher milage.
4. The rev range is disappointing. All are auto so its not too bad, but the acceleration is far less relentless than the petrol.
6. The accountant in my would choose a 320d if its money I wanted to save on fuel.

My problems with the petrol have been.
1. Injector replacement in one cylinder (known issue)
2. The breaks are soft and easily cooked I changed them quickly after getting the car.
3. Runflats are harsh espically on big rims, change to non RFT.
4. High pressure fuel pump need replacing, not on mine and mostly US for some reason.
5. 225m alloys tend to crack.
6. There are few reports of turbo failure as they are low pressure.
7. Get the garage to do the software updates, makes the idrive much quicker.

Msport versus SE is a different story. Personally I like the SE, the lines are clean, all the 335i have a option for the Msport suspension which is lower and optioned on most cars. I could live without the chrome on the SE TBH The m badges are off putting to me on a msport and only go to highlight thats its not an ///M (close but no cigar there buddy). Either ways both very good looking cars. The SE can get an Aero pack with front (good looking) and rear ( not my cup of tea) trim which makes it very like the msport. Cost about 600 sterling painted. Google it.

The second hand ones tend to have basic spec. You must have NAV and Idrive, bluetooth, heated seats on a car like this. Mine is an auto with shifters but as MarkN said I rarely use the shifters except when playing around. The ZF auto box is excellent

Great decision to make both are stonking cars. As for torque both have plenty and certainly enough to make the DCT necessary most of the time. Infact the anuto box in the 335i never chooses 1st gear. Beware the servicing costs, I am very particular about servicing, tyres and bodywork. These come at a cost much greater than the current second hand value would suggest.

986s

Would agree with all of fitzgeme comments.
As regards the Msport or SE dilema- I own a SE but do perfer the look of the Msport. The changes between the two are purely cosmetic (same sport suspension etc between two) which is easily rectified but at a cost. A company in the UK- Mstyle will do a full Msport kit painted and fitted for 1100 sterling (I dont know of an Irish company but Im sure there must be). Only other changes are the Msport steering wheel and gear leaver with Msport door sills- above company will also supply and fit these items as well- unsure of prices though. The only other tricky one is the anthracite headliner which is a lot more difficult to replace. You could be lucky and pick an SE with the anthracite headliner speeced from new though.

As regards fuel economy between the two- yes the diesel will obviously be better but not to the extent that people assume it to be. If the big d is driven the way its meant to be driven fuel economy will suffer greatly!

Other list of mods to whet your appetite would the fitment of a Qualife LSD from Birds in the Uk along with stiffer anti roll bars.
The obligatory re-map which on the petrol will give 370bhp easily. 420 hbp is within reach with an the addition of intercooler, intake and exhaust.
Alpine sound upgrade (BMW dealer option) if you have the standard sound setup which isnt the best.

Leonard Hofstadter

Hogzy wrote: »

There are 2 turbos in the petrol aswell :rolleyes:

It may come as a shock to you but I did point that out 2 posts above the one you've quoted me on:).

BMW does have serious issues with turbos on their diesel engines, they don't (yet) with their petrols and if they can't get ultra low pressure turbos to work then BMW should just throw in the towel and admit that their engineers are useless.