how does a 6 ton digger compare to a JCB?

JohnBoy

What would the backhoe on a JCB be comparable to in track machine terms? a non-extradig machine.

PNEE1

JCB is around the same as a 60. Same size pins etc

dunsandin

No comparison-the 6 ton 360 will eat the backhoe on all counts. I have a ex60 and a Cat 428 and a 3cx and there is no comparison between digging output. All the backhoe has going for it is the ability to get to the job under its own power. Even a tiny 0.8 ton 360 will outdig a backhoe(I've a takeuchi 0.8 and its a little beast to dig. The backhoe is limited by its slew radius, how long it takes to set up to dig, and they are just a pain to operate when trenching. Others may disagree, but give me a 360 ever day of the week.

JohnBoy

Coolio.

Have some drains that need cleaning along with some other jobs.

we're looking at 3 options

Buy a backhoe

Hire a 6 tonner

Contract in a man with a 13 tonner

The backhoe is the ideal long term solution, but short term cashflow isnt great.

The man with the 13 tonner is costing too much. I know he'll do the best job but he's half the cost of buying a decent old machine.

A 6 tonner will cost around 250 a day inc diesel and I'm more than happy with my own abilities driving them. it's only cleaning drains, not digging new ones so there's no science to it.


So it's

500 to hire a 6 ton for 2 days to do enough to get by
2000 to get in the guy with the 13 ton to do the whole job
4000 to buy a clean 50b or ford 550 and do enough to get by and then tip away at the rest of it over the next few years along with all the little jobs.


hmmm

Rovi

Hire the 6 tonner (or even possibly a 12-13 tonner) for a day or two, and you'll likely find yourself trying to find ways to afford buying your own.

As said previously, the only thing the backhoe has going for it is its ability to travel the road under its own steam. For any sort of digging work, even the smallest of 360 machines will leave it for dead.
If you also have use for the loader at the other end, that may alter the decision making balance.

JohnBoy

Oh dont worry.

I've hired a few three tonners in the past, hence why I want to buy something.

but for farm use a wheeled machine is just so versatile.


I've always felt for small jobs the killer with the track machine is needing two people, or at least two machines. one to dig and one to draw the spoil.

on a small job the JCB can do it all. I know it'll never do either job as well as the dedicated machine, but it's the versatility that attracts me to it.

To be honest I'd love to hire a JCB as I've never really done any digging work with one, and it'd be nice to try before I buy but I dont see many places hiring them for some reason.

mossfort

JohnBoy wrote: »

Oh dont worry.

I've hired a few three tonners in the past, hence why I want to buy something.

but for farm use a wheeled machine is just so versatile.


I've always felt for small jobs the killer with the track machine is needing two people, or at least two machines. one to dig and one to draw the spoil.

on a small job the JCB can do it all. I know it'll never do either job as well as the dedicated machine, but it's the versatility that attracts me to it.

To be honest I'd love to hire a JCB as I've never really done any digging work with one, and it'd be nice to try before I buy but I dont see many places hiring them for some reason.

the controls in the jcb will take a bit of getting used to if you have experence driving track machines because they operate differently.
the jcb would be no good on soft ground and would be slower than a 6 ton track machine but it would be far ahead of a little 3 ton minidigger which couldnt even lift a decent size stone from the ground.
the best option imo would be to hire a 13 ton machine on self drive ,it probaly wont cost much more than a 6 ton or try and get a better price from a contractor to do the job. you wont buy much in the line of a jcb for 4000 euros.

PNEE1

Sorry Johnboy, wasn't sure what you meant. When it comes to doing any work at all the 360 is miles ahead, and if your draining I'd say the ground is probably wet, in which case the JCB will be gettin stuck all the time. If you have a farm, do you have a tractor an trailer you could move spoil with.?

dunsandin

Theres a big difference between a 6 ton and a 3 ton, a 6 ton will do serious work in a day. If you are doing drainage work, a 180(JCB)will give you a pain in your rocks, you will (if you are cleaning old drains)have to reverse up to the ditch at a 45' angle, dig your few feet, and then up jacks and loader, hope you dont sink up to your axels, and move to the next pitch. I have done it till it hurts. In a 360, you can track merrily alongside the ditch, digging at your leisure, and use the slew to deposit your spoil wherever you like. But, with drainage, you dont really want to be dropping your droppings onto the land, cos it makes a mess that is a pain to clear after- the ideal is a tractor and dump trailer to draw away the spoil, but a 6 or 4 ton dumper will do the job as well - i have spent many a happy day ditching with an ex60 and a 4 ton benford, jumping of 1 and onto the other, and you can really get a lot done. If you are on a tight budget, forget the 6 ton and buy a whopper. For every 6 tonner, there are at least 2 buyers. For every tired 12 tonner there are..lets see, oh yeah, none. You can steal a tired 12-20 tonner at auction, and it will still have loads of life left for draining etc. I know one guy with a Poclain that should have been scrapped 20 years ago, and it still ditches on. Another has a €1500 hymac, and it does the same. If you are clever with your budget, you can get a lot of metal for your money.

JohnBoy

If I was in the market to buy a track machine then yeah, a 12/13 tonne would be the way to go.

but I dont have the work to justify buying a 360.

however a 180 is always a handy yoke to have around. I know it's compromised, but it's compromised because it's multipurpose.


The short term plan is to hire the 6 tonne and clean the trouble spots in a weekend, then next year probably buy a 180.

dunsandin

God bless short term plans, they often work out well, in the long term.

Ford4000

180s are a pain in the nuts especially for drainage, whatever about other versatility there just plain useless in a soggy field, you will need someone outside to put timbers under the jack legs and hop when you move you wont get stuck, around a farm you can do just as much with a 360 especially with rubber blocks on the tracks so u dont hurt your concrete. i have some work needing doing shortly and im looking at buying an old hymac or poclain or something, as long as it goes and tidies up my jobs il be happy, you will buy one for about 3grand in reasonably good order, u should have no trouble moving it on so u can then buy your 180 for general purpose work....digging post holes or something thats about all there good for

101sean

It's how many old 360s seem to end their life, working on a farm. Old farm machines regularly appear in Classic Plant and Machinary doing odd jobs with years of life left in them.

mosta

Sound advice above, i have both a 7 tonne Hitachi and a 3cx. We find that the 3cx is only used around the yard since we got the Hitachi. the 3cx is useless in the wet and destroys the fields. The main use is the 4 in 1 bucket which is good for grabbin bushes, stable manure and other rubbish as well as carrying round bales.
A 6/7 tonner will dig lots in a day but an oldish 12 tonner is probly cheaper to buy. The old UH type hitachi 053 and 063 are a great machine and seem to be still holding their value.

BeeDI

JohnBoy wrote: »

Coolio.

Have some drains that need cleaning along with some other jobs.

we're looking at 3 options

Buy a backhoe

Hire a 6 tonner

Contract in a man with a 13 tonner

The backhoe is the ideal long term solution, but short term cashflow isnt great.

The man with the 13 tonner is costing too much. I know he'll do the best job but he's half the cost of buying a decent old machine.

A 6 tonner will cost around 250 a day inc diesel and I'm more than happy with my own abilities driving them. it's only cleaning drains, not digging new ones so there's no science to it.


So it's

500 to hire a 6 ton for 2 days to do enough to get by
2000 to get in the guy with the 13 ton to do the whole job
4000 to buy a clean 50b or ford 550 and do enough to get by and then tip away at the rest of it over the next few years along with all the little jobs.


hmmm

I'm in the same quandry as yourself, and like you I'm leaning towards a backhoe machine.
Why? Because in my estimation, it's more likely to get used 12 months of the year than a track machine. By that I mean, I can get summer field work done, unless the land is wet. Mine is dryish, except here and there where, I have blocked stone drains. Backhoe could deal with those in the summer months. Four in one bucket, great for dealing with scrub and briars in summe months. In winter / spring, nothing like a 3CX around the yard. Cleaning up, silage bale moving, stick pallet forks on to shift stuff around, unload feed and fertilizer, etc, etc,.
So I reckon, I will actually use a 3CX almost every week of the year. Especially, as tractor does not have a front loader, and putting one on is crazy expensive, compared to decentish 3CX second hand.
But of course, track machine will eat a 3CX, on a drainage or general land reclaimation job. No question. Plus it will go, where you would not dream of trying to go with a 3CX, even in good conditions. For that work, hire in 12 tonner and good driver.
My summary.
Get decentish 3CX with 4 in 1 bucket, for €6k and get weekly use out of it.
Get 12 tonner in once every 3 years for a couple of days doing what 3CX can't get done!